The benefits of playing with a standard shaft?
- Thread starter Joe Rogan
- Start date
axejunkie said:
Ok change of subject. Please don't kill me. This one's for you axe. My spare car is a 1964 Volvo B18 Coupe. It runs great! With the original paint job, so it looks weathered and old. I like it that way.
The other day I was driving on the 405 Freeway in West Los Angeles. All around me were Mercedes', BMW's, Lexus' and big SUV's. I looked all around the freeway for a couple of minutes, and I realized I was driving the oldest car on the road. You know what? That made me very happy!
End of story. Thanks.
I have to admit that I have scanned a lot of the responses here, so if I repeat something that has already been stated, then please disregard.
I have tried the LD shafts in the past, and every one of them just feel 'dead' to me...or more to the point, they do not 'feel' at all.
It has always struck me as off that someone will seek out a maker whose cues are known for their excellent feedback, only to muffle that feedback by putting a LD laminated shaft onto it. Just makes no sense to me.
Sometimes I believe that people tend to discount just how an important a role that 'feedback' plays in a cue. I would rather own a cue that 'talks' to me than one with lower deflection. Deflection you can make adjustments for, a 'dead' cue, you cannot. Playing with a well crafted cue with excellent feedback and balance is like playing with a cue on 'cruise control'. :smile:
A good cue maker will put a lot of time and effort into developing a shaft taper that works well in tandem with the butts of their cues. They will do their best to also check their shaft wood for tone and weight. If you are looking to lower deflection, you can do things such as request a shorter or even no ferrule, and then match it up to a preferred tip to achieve the type of performance you're looking for.
You also have to take into account that most all of the aftermarket LD laminated shafts have some sort of a core to them. A standard cue makers' shaft very likely will not. In my mind, the coring of the shaft would tend to disrupt the vibrations travelling through it to the butt, therefore reducing the amount of feedback one would feel. In a standard shaft, the wood tends to naturally transmit these vibrations down through the shaft into the butt and eventually to your grip hand. A well crafted cue, with great shaftwood and excellent feedback will tell you immediately upon stroking the CB if you have correctly stroked to make the shot.
As a final note.....I do not know about others here, but when I seek out a maker for a cue, it is generally on their reputation for making one of the best players available. To me, this includes the entire cue, tip to bumper. It should follow that part of this reputation for playability involves their shafts and the respective tapers they have developed or use. Acquiring one of these cues, and then putting an aftermarket LD laminated shaft onto it not only seems counterproductive to what it is you are trying to achieve, but a bit disrespectful to the cue maker as well.
Lisa <====== believes in trusting the maker and their choice for shaftwood.
I have tried the LD shafts in the past, and every one of them just feel 'dead' to me...or more to the point, they do not 'feel' at all.
It has always struck me as off that someone will seek out a maker whose cues are known for their excellent feedback, only to muffle that feedback by putting a LD laminated shaft onto it. Just makes no sense to me.
Sometimes I believe that people tend to discount just how an important a role that 'feedback' plays in a cue. I would rather own a cue that 'talks' to me than one with lower deflection. Deflection you can make adjustments for, a 'dead' cue, you cannot. Playing with a well crafted cue with excellent feedback and balance is like playing with a cue on 'cruise control'. :smile:
A good cue maker will put a lot of time and effort into developing a shaft taper that works well in tandem with the butts of their cues. They will do their best to also check their shaft wood for tone and weight. If you are looking to lower deflection, you can do things such as request a shorter or even no ferrule, and then match it up to a preferred tip to achieve the type of performance you're looking for.
You also have to take into account that most all of the aftermarket LD laminated shafts have some sort of a core to them. A standard cue makers' shaft very likely will not. In my mind, the coring of the shaft would tend to disrupt the vibrations travelling through it to the butt, therefore reducing the amount of feedback one would feel. In a standard shaft, the wood tends to naturally transmit these vibrations down through the shaft into the butt and eventually to your grip hand. A well crafted cue, with great shaftwood and excellent feedback will tell you immediately upon stroking the CB if you have correctly stroked to make the shot.
As a final note.....I do not know about others here, but when I seek out a maker for a cue, it is generally on their reputation for making one of the best players available. To me, this includes the entire cue, tip to bumper. It should follow that part of this reputation for playability involves their shafts and the respective tapers they have developed or use. Acquiring one of these cues, and then putting an aftermarket LD laminated shaft onto it not only seems counterproductive to what it is you are trying to achieve, but a bit disrespectful to the cue maker as well.
Lisa <====== believes in trusting the maker and their choice for shaftwood.
twilight said:
I agree that a Predator shaft has a different feel than a standard shaft, but to me it's much easier to get used to a different 'feel' than to have to adjust to greater squirt on the cueball every time I use inside English.
In fact, there was no adjustment period for me with a Predator shaft--as soon as I started shooting with one pocketing balls with inside English became measurably easier, and I have never looked back.
Max Eberle turned me onto Predator shafts when I took lessons from him once...many years ago when he still lived in VA. I've never gone back. It isn't so much the deflection issue -- because I like playing with my normal shaft and once you hit enough balls your aim will automatically adjust (best way I can explain it). I just really like the taper...and if one goes bad I can order another w/ a Moori tip and it will play virtually the same. Whatever works, right?
One of the biggest reasons people love 314s or OB-1s is that they can change cues and not disrupt their playing ability. Corey Deuel loves the 314, because he used to change cues like I change socks. He had a knock-out Scruggs years ago with a 314. He then went to Viking with a 314. He then went to 5280 with a 314. He now uses a Woodpecker with a 314. When the winds of change blow on Corey again, I will guarantee he will play with Butt X and a 314. Most pro players can play with anything. The aftermarket shafts allow them to freely change whatever butt they play with, and just purchase the aftermarket shaft for their new weapon. The cue will play nearly or the exact same as their former cue. This way, they can score any endorsement deal and just get the aftermarket shaft. The OB-1s ferrule, to me, has nothing to do with the playability of the cue. It's recognizable from a distance. You can sand off a logo off of a Pred, and you wouldn't know what it is. To do the same with the OB-1, you'd need to cut off the ferrule, which as it turns out, voids the warranty.
ridewiththewind said:
I agree totally. I've been looking for a shaft that has a feel to it since my old favorite cue was stolen about 6 years ago. I've been told that the cues made years ago were from "old" wood and were more dense. It seems to me that the new shafts I have made do ding much easier and are from softer wood.
As for a shot you can do with a regular shaft that you can't with a LD shaft I have one. You need a pretty good stroke to do this but I call it a soft draw shot. When you are playing on a tight table, shooting a ball down the rail from some distance with draw can make the ball hit the pocket too hard and bounce out if not hit perfectly. Also, when there is some angle the cue ball will go to the rail first before drawing and it will go across the table much further. If the object ball is just a little off the rail and you need to draw it back to the end rail, if you hit this shot with a soft stroke and can still get the spin to come back to the rail, the object ball will fall much easier on a tight table.
When my stroke was at it's best, it felt like the cue was sticking to the cue ball on it's way to the object ball. I realize it wasn't but I could tell from the feel how I hit the ball.
Cant play with one
Ive tried the predator shaft. And I can absolutely say with all certainty, I CAN NOT play with it. LOL
I dont know what that tells me about me as a player, but I just couldnt get used to it. Give me my custom Clark cue anyday, and I will be a happy girl. (that makes more balls, LOL)
Ive tried the predator shaft. And I can absolutely say with all certainty, I CAN NOT play with it. LOL
I dont know what that tells me about me as a player, but I just couldnt get used to it. Give me my custom Clark cue anyday, and I will be a happy girl. (that makes more balls, LOL)
One benefit according to one World Champion that i spoke to about it is that the spliced shafts dont last very long. If you play a couple hours every day as a pro does or should do, the shaft wears out and significantly changes withn 4 months-6 months its finished and you have to get used to a new shaft too often. That's what they said and i have no idea if the are correct but i would think there is something to it.
Shawn Armstrong said:
In the grand scheme of things, you are talking about only a few shots that can't be made with a Predator. Gradys shots that you are talking about rarely come up in a game situation. If you're using a Predator and one of those shots comes up whats wrong with using your break cue or a house cue to execute the shot? Generally, a break cue or house cue is going to have a slightly firmer hit than a playing cue with a regular shaft, making it easier to execute the type of shot you're talking about.... Just a thought....
jingle said:
OK. Here's the difference. If I'm able to make more shots with the standard shaft than the LD shaft, and I play more consistently with the standard shaft, why would I want to pay MORE money for a shaft that allows me to do LESS? Hmmm.................The Saw said:
Sounds like you're just saying high-squirt shafts draw better. I don't think that's true. Lots of players claim that low-squirt shafts draw and spin better - I don't think that's true either.
pj
chgo
Nostroke said:
I've heard similar things about Meucci shafts, about them wearing out.
Actually, a couple of years ago I spoke with the Meucci folks and they told me that it takes a while for a shaft to break in, and that after the break in period, which according to them could be a couple of months of frequent use, that every shaft will flex up a bit, loosen up a bit, and squirt the cue ball less. They said it, not me.
Flex