The benefits of playing with a standard shaft?

[Colin Colenso]

When they can make a low-swerve cue, then I might start using low deflection cues.

But there are some shots that may be easier to judge with them. Personally I'd like a LD break cue, so I can have a longer bridge and not have to worry about squirt with CB offset so much. But a hollowed out break cue might have to be disposable.

Colin

 

[AtLarge]

Here's my take on why I currently prefer to use standard or regular-deflection shafts. (I've had lots of experience with both types (regular- and low-deflection shafts.) And my reason has nothing to do with how the two types of shafts "feel" when the cue ball is struck.

A low-deflection shaft is not a "no-deflection" shaft. The cue ball still deflects, or squirts, when it is hit with side spin with a low deflection shaft. It just squirts less than it would with a regular-deflection shaft.

So how can the player compensate for squirt in order to hit his intended target? One way is to use parallel english and aim enough off the target to allow the cue ball to squirt back and hit the target. If the player had no prior experience with pool, it should be easier to learn this compensation procedure by using a cue that squirts less than by using a cue that squirts more. But learning the proper amount of compensation using parallel english is difficult in either case, with either type of shaft (low-deflection or regular-deflection).

Another way to compensate for squirt is to not use parallel english for side spin, but, instead, to use back-hand english and/or front-hand english. With a low-deflection shaft, the pivot point of the shaft is generally farther from the tip of the cue than one would normally like to use for a bridging point. This means that squirt compensation must be done with either front-hand english alone or a combination of front- and back-hand english. I personally prefer to use only back-hand english to compensate for squirt, rather than front-hand english alone or a combination of the two. This personal preference means that a low-deflection shaft is less desirable to me.

I find it easiest to compensate for squirt by using back-hand english alone. This necessitates the use of a shaft with a pivot point approximately at the bridging point. This means I must use a regular-deflection shaft, not a low-deflection shaft.

In summary, "low deflection" is not "no deflection." Compensation for squirt is more difficult for me with a low-deflection shaft than with a regular-deflection shaft. (And, yes, I'm aware of the supposed limitations of back-hand english.)

 

[twilight]

I learned to play with a standard 1 piece shaft and stuck with it for a couple years. Then I heard about predator shafts and wanted to bring my game up. I played with a predator shaft for 6 years and didn't have any problems with them. One day I started hitting with a few customs and found most had a better hit and feel. I don't feel the predator shafts hurt my game any, I just think my predators didn't have much feel, if that makes any sense.

I like my custom one piece maple shafts simply because they feel better. It almost seems like every good shot I make, I get good feedback. When I make a bad shot, it feels bad too. My predator shaft never gave me the feedback as some of my normal deflection single piece shafts, although I would say they were more forgiving when I played with the predator. I think I have to be a bit more precise and deliberate with my single piece normal deflection shaft. If I ever found a low deflection shaft that feels as good as any of my favorite one piece shafts I'll play with that one.

 

[The Saw]

I played Cory here at home the other day....SNIPPED....take care

eric P

Is that really you typing Fatboy? Decent spelling, decent grammar, readable... May be your best post Eric! Rep sent....

Saw

 

[Fatboy]

Is that really you typing Fatboy? Decent spelling, decent grammar, readable... May be your best post Eric! Rep sent....

Saw

I get luckey once in a while. And I promis you its luck. happy summer!!

 

[Da Poet]

Yeah, I'm fine with Predator, but I am a little jealous of the nice sharp crisp feel of some other cues. Not enough to change, but enough to be jealous.

 

[The Saw]

If the cue maker uses good shaft wood, then the stock shaft is what I prefer.

Buddy Hall gave me some real good insight on how he picks shafts and it really made good sense (to me at least)... He looks for a shaft that has long feathers running down the shaft, reason being that the feathers are a result of the shaft wood being from the center part of the tree. The feathers you see are the inner most growth rings of the tree and he believes that they play more solid and consistent than the bleached looking, clean shafts. For a consistent hit every time he shoots with the same feather up, that's where Meucci got the idea for Red Dot shafts.

I've been using a Predator for a long time and can't make a ball without one... Years ago Cory gave me a Pred shaft to try when I was playing 8-10 hours a day. I tried to switch right away, couldn't get used to it and gave it back within a week. I tried it one a couple of years later after I had taken a month or so break, adjusted to it quickly and loved it. IMO, you have to go into it with a cleared head after a break to be able to truly make the switch. There are a few "stiff" banks, light masses, etc... that I hit better with a regular shaft. But for me the plus's way outweigh the negatives....

Saw

 

[Gerry]

For 20 odd years I played with old skool stainless steel jointed cues standard shafts that I never wanted to change. This last year i started experimenting with LD shafts on my Schon because I had a flaw in my game that was magnified by squirt.

Now I have fixed the alignment flaw, and I switched to a 314-2 on my Schon and the shaft feels just like the original......but a TON less squirt. It took me about 3 months to get back in stroke, but I planned on that since I now have my table here at home.

I'd honestly say I picked up 1 to 1-1/2 balls in speed by fixing the flaw and switching to the Predator.

I don't think there are any shots I can't make with a Predator. I just have to watch putting too much juice on the cue ball......the 314-2 will seriously spin the ball.......but not as much as the ob-1....that shaft was nuts!

 

[PROG8R]

I know there are some shots where I've grown up shooting them with a standard shaft, and when I aim at them with an LD shaft I have to think about it, where if I was using a standard shaft I just go on memory.

I usually play with a low deflection shaft, but last night I was shooting with a southwest that I've had for 14 years, and although it's kind of hard to describe, it seemed like I just "knew" where the ball was going better with it.

Joe,
If I catch you putting a pred on a southwest I will put you in a timeout!!
That is just bad MOJO man. You might as well give me the SW and put the pred on a players cue.

 

[jay helfert]

I know lot of people prefer standard shafts to low deflection ones, but I wanted to ask here on AZ to get some opinions from you folks as to why that's the case.
Robb Saez tried a predator for 6 months but didn't like it, and I know some other really good players don't like them either. Corey Harper told me that there are some shots he can make with a regular shaft that he can't make with a low deflection one.

How many of you guys have tried a low deflection and went back because you felt that it wasn't good for your game?

Are you REALLY Joe Rogan? Are you sure you're not Conan O'Brien?

Sorry Joe. Sometimes I wake up and I feel like being silly. Like right now. I guess I need a girl. :wink:

 

[thomba02]

i used to play with a regular shaft before switching to a predator 314...i find that i play just about the same with both.

however, the only reason i stuck with a 314 is because of the increased ease of using english. i find that i can apply english closer to the center of the cue ball and still get where i want to go. with a regular shaft, i find that i had to apply a half-tip more or so, just to move it the same distance.

so, in essence, i only use the predator for the increased spin, not so much the low deflection...but the LD definitely sped up the learning curve.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I know lot of people prefer standard shafts to low deflection ones, but I wanted to ask here on AZ to get some opinions from you folks as to why that's the case.
Robb Saez tried a predator for 6 months but didn't like it, and I know some other really good players don't like them either. Corey Harper told me that there are some shots he can make with a regular shaft that he can't make with a low deflection one.

How many of you guys have tried a low deflection and went back because you felt that it wasn't good for your game?

Standard Shaft can be made for low defection if you like by many cue makers.

 

[jingle]

I usually play with a low deflection shaft, but last night I was shooting with a southwest that I've had for 14 years, and although it's kind of hard to describe, it seemed like I just "knew" where the ball was going better with it.

Joe,
I used Predator shafts for more than 5 years, and currently have an OB-1 that just collects dust in my case. I don't know why, but for me the cueball path & speed/distance after contacting the OB is more predictable when I use the standard maple shafts on my Josey cue. This results in better position play for me. (I know, this makes no sense to me either, but I have years of experience with each shaft and this is what I perceive to be the case)That being said, I think I can make more "spectacular" or difficult shots more often using low-squirt shafts. However, I prefer the more consistent position play I get using standard shafts. I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer for this issue. One thing you can do is dedicate yourself to each shaft for a month or so and do games that you can keep score (like Q-skill, 99, etc). Keep records and compare your scores with each shaft. I found that I scored a little better with standard shafts. Your results might be different though.

 

[SCCues]

LD shaft vs regular shaft

I played for years at a mid level and when I had to apply english on cut shots with any distance I was never sure I was going to make the shot. Sometimes I made them and sometimes I missed and that's how my game went. A friend of mine convinced me to try a predator 314 and at first I didn't know how to shoot with it and I didn't like it. I went back to the regular shaft and continued missing a lot of the long shots with english.

After a few months I decided to try the predator shaft again after hearing my friend talk so positively about his game with predator shafts.

I bought 2 314's for my cue and I was determined to learn to play with them. It took a little time, but I finally got the hang of them and i've never played better than I do now using a predator 314 or a 314 2nd gen.
Now I make those shots most of the time that I used to miss with my regular shafts.

I don't think predator shafts are for everyone, but they helped my game and my confidence.

James

 

[bandido]

Standard Shaft can be made for low defection if you like by many cue makers.

That's right. I have a shaft option that I offer to go with my cues. I can consistently replicate a "0" CB Squirt solid shaft with 12.7mm dia. front end. Normal solid shaft feel with lots of spin that you won't need to go too far from center hit.

The problem is that users knowing it as a solid shaft still aims with what they're used to as with previous solid shafts that they've used.

 

[unknownpro]

If I want to deflect my cueball 1/2 ball width, having 10% or 20% less deflection does not necessarilly make that easier. It is illogical to think you can hit the cueball on the side and have it go to the same place as if you hit it in the center. As Colin said, curve won't be eliminated by the shaft. Most people can't deflect the cueball far enough without curving off line anyway with a regular shaft.

A smaller diameter shaft will always get more spin hitting closer to the center of the cueball no matter who makes it.

 

[ratcues]

One of the problems I find with, not only LD shafts, but most production shafts, is the long taper. That may be what throws a better player off.

The reason more and more cue manufacturers go to the long 16" taper is that an entry level player can move the cue ball all over the table.....but you give up control. When the taper gets shortened, like on your SW, it takes a more controlled, disciplined stroke to move the cue ball BUT you have better control.

It depends on what your needs are as to whether you need a LD shaft or not. If you have been shooting with the same cue for years and know the deflection properties, there is no need to switch to a Predator shaft.

 

[kamdaswani]

the journey home

i actually started with a josswest... went to predator.. loved it so much i ended up getting matching predator shafts for some other cues as well..

this was when i was starting out .. ie, when my stroke really sucked ...

as such, i just couldn't get the cue ball to go where i wanted and hence, the predator shafts gave me a real leg up ..

but slowly, as kind friends and skilled cue-makers helped to identify critical errors in my stroke action, i realised that it wasn't so much the shaft as the technique ... and it dawned on me that the shafts were now crutches .. if i wanted to truly identify the flaws in my game, i needed to go back to the old school ...

so back to "proper" shafts and actual observation .. as they say, the cueball never lies ...

it been a tough journey but the rewards are so much greater ..

now if i play with a szam or bb, i am actually playing with it.. not half of it

this is not to say the pros who use LD shafts can't stroke with "normal" shafts.. in their case it may be due to endorsements, ease of replacement / maintenance or a genuine preference... it is a choice they make...

however, i think if one is not truly a profession ( actually making your primary living from pool ), then you may be missing out on a big part of the joy of owing a truly custom cue from a great cue maker if you simply slap on a machine made shaft ... it's like a courtship ... take the time and effort and you will be rewarded by an individually unique experience..

and with each new cue, there is a new adventure ...

enjoy...

 

[PKM]

So has anyone figured out what are these mythical shots that can only be made with regular shafts?

Or is it just that people are used to shooting with their own shaft?

 

[Steve Ellis]

I'm nobody in the pool world, but here's my opinion anyway. I used to shoot with a predator on my original cue, a McDermott. I shot with it a year or two. When I bought my first true custom cue, the cue maker was kind enough to let me try it with a Predator and one of his own shafts. He gave me both shafts when I bought it and said to try them both and exchange the one I didn't want when I'd decided.
So I used both for a month and liked the cue maker's shaft better. I just felt better and I didn't notice a significant improvement in shot making with the Predator. So I kept his and have never looked back.