Well Geno posts have been off top for over 10 years, they belong in For Sale Section, he selling something. Be it lessons, chalk, or a services, he a seller of products & service. Put it where it belongs.
The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????
- Thread starter genomachino
- Start date
Nuther undefined is "lower level player" Pro but not champion? (suspected) or anybody not perfect?
Interesting. FWIW, I am right handed and have double vision, which my eye doctor says is congenital. He says that only about 20% of the population has perfectly aligned eyes. Our brains correct for it if is not too severe so it wasn't a problem for me playing pool until about 10 years ago due to my aging eyes. I can still shoot well without the corrective glasses I had made up if I wait for the images to superimpose but it is easier with the glasses.
When I try your test it tells me that I am left eye dominant but I have no idea if it has always been that way. Eye exams earlier in life revealed 20/20 vision and no sign of issues.
I just tried a test with the foot spot shot where I lined up without the glasses, sighted on the shot then closed one eye and made the shot. The image did not shift with my right eye shut and I pocketed the ball. When I shut my left eye the image shifted but I was still looking at the impact point on the OB, so I pocketed the ball without changing my position or anything else.
Out of curiosity I am going to set up a camera at the foot of the table and take a closer look with and without the glasses to see what sort of alignment I have between my eyes and the cue.
I went to the table a little bit ago and put a mirror on the wall at the foot of the table, got down in my stroking stance and learned that my stick is under my dominant eye (left) and I shoot right handed. John Morra also shoots that way, or at least when he plays right handed.
I may have been doing this for 50 years or I may have started after my strabismus became apparent a little over 10 years ago. It doesn't seem to hurt my ability to break and run or make long yardage thin cuts on a 9 footer.
Whoa... No witchcarft mannnnn....
lol Ok looked it up but i won't say it! I went through a period leaning over the stick and while it does eliminate some parallax/moire effects, I come to the conclusion that leaning over the stick simply puts my stroke in more congruent alignment to the shot.
80% of all players I work with are usually surprised where the stick is positioned. Some swear they are right eye dominant but when they get down the cue is to the left of their nose. Obviously they are left eye dominant. Then there is normal left eye dominant and then there is left eye dominant where the cue is right under the eye like John Morra.
If I can't identify a players dominant eye I can't help them manually improve their vision of the shot.
But it isn't as easy as just moving the eyes. The stance, body and cue all have to be tweaked a little here and there to make this all work the best.
I'm not guessing here. Been teaching this for 15 years and traveled for 5 years on the road. Over 2,000 lessons helping players and learning more about how this works.
I'm not just sitting at the pool table trying to think things out.
This is why nobody ever figured this out.
This is why other teachers or players think they know how this works. They are just thinking.
It took 5 years of grinding it out from pool hall to pool hall teaching and learning along the way.
No book or video to learn this from. Nobody actually knew the whole story about how these eyes work.
But once I show someone and they apply it to their own game they are total believers like the ones I've helped on AZ here.
I found a huge problem that players never even knew that they had. The reason they can't improve and if they do improve it is such a grind.
But identifying the problem wasn't the only part to this. I had to figure out how to fix the problem.
Perfect Aim is the answer to the problem. Loud and clear to those that want to improve and improve faster.
I guess you could say it is a shortcut to improving ones game.
If I can't identify a players dominant eye I can't help them manually improve their vision of the shot.
But it isn't as easy as just moving the eyes. The stance, body and cue all have to be tweaked a little here and there to make this all work the best.
I'm not guessing here. Been teaching this for 15 years and traveled for 5 years on the road. Over 2,000 lessons helping players and learning more about how this works.
I'm not just sitting at the pool table trying to think things out.
This is why nobody ever figured this out.
This is why other teachers or players think they know how this works. They are just thinking.
It took 5 years of grinding it out from pool hall to pool hall teaching and learning along the way.
No book or video to learn this from. Nobody actually knew the whole story about how these eyes work.
But once I show someone and they apply it to their own game they are total believers like the ones I've helped on AZ here.
I found a huge problem that players never even knew that they had. The reason they can't improve and if they do improve it is such a grind.
But identifying the problem wasn't the only part to this. I had to figure out how to fix the problem.
Perfect Aim is the answer to the problem. Loud and clear to those that want to improve and improve faster.
I guess you could say it is a shortcut to improving ones game.
I believe that I am cross eye dominant- but what I do know for sure is that I need to LOOK at my final OB contact point a certain and very specific way with my eyes to SEE the shot correctly. I am probably practicing the Perfect Aim method without really ever studying it. Years of trial, error, and discovery have led me to a method of SEEING the shot properly, for me, that results in my best performance at the table. I also KNOW that if I do not follow the sighting method that works best for me- my performance falters- so I think there is something very real about this Perfect Aim method.
My guess is that in all sports involving sight, aiming, or reacting to a moving or stationary object - the very best performers- the most naturally gifted ones, are better wired for the proper sighting and focusing at the point of execution- whether it be pool, baseball, tennis, golf, etc. I also believe that these skills can be learned either by the correct awareness and instruction, and, at times, dogged determination - trial and error until one understands what works best for them.
CAUTION: FREE CONTENT NEXT 3 LINES
Here's what and how I arrive at congruence. I lay the stick on the table, on the shot line.I then backwards engineered my shooting position around it. This includes how it looks, parallax error and all.
I even reconfigured how and where I stand just to eyeball the shot in the first place. Shoot shot...
Well there was a great line in the movie with Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge[/b], Improvise, Adapt, an Overcome, YOUR MARINES.
So being Right Eye Dominant, Left Handed, is not a handicap, it something you learn to work with. I would say I am abnormal, and different. BTW I do shoot Long Guns, and Shotsgun Right handed, everything else as a southpaw.
Before there were pool instruction book, DVD's CD's Teach Aids, or many instructors. People some how learn to play pool well, guess they were determined to be good. Guess they watch, learned, practed, and those who payed their dues with practice, practice, practice accomplish their mission.
Taking one lesson from some person selling dreams will not make you world class, or even half great at anything. If it only took one lesson most professional sports teams would not have full time coach staffs.
So being Right Eye Dominant, Left Handed, is not a handicap, it something you learn to work with. I would say I am abnormal, and different. BTW I do shoot Long Guns, and Shotsgun Right handed, everything else as a southpaw.
Before there were pool instruction book, DVD's CD's Teach Aids, or many instructors. People some how learn to play pool well, guess they were determined to be good. Guess they watch, learned, practed, and those who payed their dues with practice, practice, practice accomplish their mission.
Taking one lesson from some person selling dreams will not make you world class, or even half great at anything. If it only took one lesson most professional sports teams would not have full time coach staffs.
Do you have double vision? I do, but I never see two sticks. As I have mentioned elsewhere I shoot right handed and am left eye dominant. My stick is under my left eye and I am down low but I don't feel contorted, maybe because I do yoga about every day.
I have tried looking at the OB last and the CB last and they seem to work about the same except on long shots, where OB last works better for me.
Speaking of leap of faith, have you tried pocketing in practice with your eyes shut? Once you are lined up it is easy to do, if your stroke is straight.
If I use CB last, I miss more often, especially if it is an challenging shot, such as end to end thin cut on a 9 footer. I also tried CB last when breaking 8-ball (shooting straight down the center, straight into the head ball) but it did not work nearly as well as OB last.
OB last has worked well for 50 years. Never have had any difficulty aiming, but I had to rehab my stroke after a major layoff.
I had a pair of glasses made up to correct for my double vision, but nothing else, just for pool. When ordering them the optometrist had me get down in the shooting position so that he could determine the vision center. The frames are ordinary looking but I picked them out of the pack based being able to see well without the top part of the frame intruding when down on the shot.
They have been working well so far. The balls no longer look blurry because of the overlapping images. From what I have read it is problematic to correct for double vision with contacts, but my dry eyes don't tolerate them anyways.
Agreed. When I was first learning with a lot of solo table time If the shot was make-able I presumed that I could make so I shot it with that attitude and it usually worked. If I missed, I set it up and tried again until I had it down. I also got good at seeing the exact spot where I needed to impact the OB to pocket it. Many years later I can still see that spot and rarely have to walk over to sight into the pocket, even with thin cuts.
As far as the aiming portion of this thread, I still have no clue what system I am using or if it is even a system. I just aim and the balls keep dropping, so I don't see the need to analyze it.
One I like is Championship Pool by David and Jonathan MacNeil..
Whoa... No witchcarft mannnnn....
When you were talking on your other post about seeing the cue in double, it made me wonder if you had it too. Mine is a fairly minor case; if I look in a mirror I can't really see it but the ophthalmologist had his assistant come into the exam room to show her the misalignment that he could see just by looking at my eyes and she saw it too. He also pointed out that it was the reason I tend to tilt my head to the left, something I did not realize I was doing.
I still shoot rifle and pistol right handed with no problems but I close my left eye.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I used to be this way with 7' valley tables. I played on them so much I didn't have to look at the pocket, just knew where to hit them and they would go. 4" from the rail and cb is a foot away? Hit it there and it goes. My trouble started when I ventured to 9' and a 10' snooker table. Eventually I could get the balls going right, but it was hit or miss and took a few hours of play to get "tuned in." I got an oversize 8 (8.5') with unforgiving pockets and I just sucked. I kept missing but I knew if it were a 7' it would have dropped, it had the path but the extra lenght made it go into the rail. I talked with Gene and did a skype lesson and almost immediately I started making the tough shots, the long thin ones, slow rolls, fast shots, etc. They dropped in the pocket. I could have probably got to this point eventually, but it turned something that might have took a year of play into something that took a month. I'm dead serious, I was a better shotmaker in a month of doing perfect aim (on an 8.5') than a decade of playing naturally. Now that my shotmaking is up to par, I can focus on learning other aspects of the game, and they come quicker since I'm aiming right.
The nice thing is, the system really does work, and you can adapt to any size table very quickly, it's part of your PSR and doesn't take any longer than not doing the system. I was definitely a doubting Thomas, but after the lesson it got my shot making probably 3x better than when I used to play all the time naturally. I used to be one of those safety guys that would make you tear your hair out and even caused one guy to break his new stick into kindling. If I'm honest, I love safety play, but I used to do it all the time because I wasn't a shot maker and couldn't get out. Now I still love safety play, but I win more games when I can actually make shots and not have to play safe just because I suck lol.
I guess my favorite part of the system is once you are aiming correctly and get your eyes right, it makes all practice time and learning time much more productive. It's a force multiplier. You can get a lug nut loose with an 8" 4 point lug wrench, but it's takes much less sweat to do it with a 20".
So, back to the original question... I think it is better to ask "what is the biggest reason that lower level players don't improve?" The other side of the question would be "what is the biggest thing that lower level players need to improve?"
I have coached a couple league players on a very limited basis but one thing they had in common was saying "I can't do this" or "can't do that." I told them they were wrong about that, and to start saying "I am having trouble with/difficulty with/struggling with" and so on.
The difference between the two approaches is subtle and profound. I told them that if I could learn it, so could they. Once they started policing themselves on that one thing a few small initial successes bred confidence and the difference in their play was significant, which fed their confidence, rinse and repeat.
So self doubt is one thing that holds players back. But unless they have a physical ailment that they cannot manage, the rest of what holds them back is lack of: desire to excel, the drive to put in the table plan, the self discipline to go at learning/building skill in an organized way and developing the mental toughness to walk away from a missed shot with a short memory and win whether the chips are up or down. If you have that package then you can pretty much overcome the physical handicaps, the learning blocks, life's distractions, lack of knowledge, etc.
One guy on our league that was one of the top shooters had to use the table like a cane to drag one leg behind him, a result of surviving polio. He was really, really tough to beat and educated everyone else on how and when to shoot a safety. Another guy had to learn to learn to walk, talk, feed himself and play pool not once but twice after two operations to deal with brain damage from a motorcycle crash when he was in high school. He is difficult to beat and although he plays left handed he is equally proficient playing right handed.
In my experience once you get to a certain point, mental toughness becomes the driving force but feeding the desire and drive will naturally cause you to correct defects in your technique and strategy. At least it did in my case.
I don't know what the "biggest reason" is - I would just be guessing. Answering that definitively requires looking for commonality in a large population of pool players that fit the lower player segment, sort of a survey or scientific study. At the end of the day, the answer would likely not be all that useful to anyone that is not an instructor that is developing a curriculum designed to elevate the playing level of that group.
Good instructors would be able to spot what a specific student needs to address to improve anyways and have the experience and capability to help that student.
I have coached a couple league players on a very limited basis but one thing they had in common was saying "I can't do this" or "can't do that." I told them they were wrong about that, and to start saying "I am having trouble with/difficulty with/struggling with" and so on.
The difference between the two approaches is subtle and profound. I told them that if I could learn it, so could they. Once they started policing themselves on that one thing a few small initial successes bred confidence and the difference in their play was significant, which fed their confidence, rinse and repeat.
So self doubt is one thing that holds players back. But unless they have a physical ailment that they cannot manage, the rest of what holds them back is lack of: desire to excel, the drive to put in the table plan, the self discipline to go at learning/building skill in an organized way and developing the mental toughness to walk away from a missed shot with a short memory and win whether the chips are up or down. If you have that package then you can pretty much overcome the physical handicaps, the learning blocks, life's distractions, lack of knowledge, etc.
One guy on our league that was one of the top shooters had to use the table like a cane to drag one leg behind him, a result of surviving polio. He was really, really tough to beat and educated everyone else on how and when to shoot a safety. Another guy had to learn to learn to walk, talk, feed himself and play pool not once but twice after two operations to deal with brain damage from a motorcycle crash when he was in high school. He is difficult to beat and although he plays left handed he is equally proficient playing right handed.
In my experience once you get to a certain point, mental toughness becomes the driving force but feeding the desire and drive will naturally cause you to correct defects in your technique and strategy. At least it did in my case.
I don't know what the "biggest reason" is - I would just be guessing. Answering that definitively requires looking for commonality in a large population of pool players that fit the lower player segment, sort of a survey or scientific study. At the end of the day, the answer would likely not be all that useful to anyone that is not an instructor that is developing a curriculum designed to elevate the playing level of that group.
Good instructors would be able to spot what a specific student needs to address to improve anyways and have the experience and capability to help that student.
I started out and shot pool exclusively on 9 ft tables, except for a 10 ft snooker table, until I was old enough to go into bars and then I started shooting on 7 footers. The extra length of the larger tables tends to intimidate players into thinking that it is more difficult than the 7 footer, but it really isn't an issue if you aim and stroke well. The main differences I found on a 7 footer was the increased congestion can make it more difficult to run out and I had to adjust the power of my break.
We have two 9 ft tables in one of our leagues and the rest are 7 ft. Since the 9 ft tables are at the Eagles and Elks lodges many of the players don't get to practice on them so some don't do as well when they have to play on the larger tables. My observation is that it is not as easy to see the CB, OB and pocket all in one picture on the 9 ft, and they generally are intimidated by the larger table and that seems to throw off their aim.
The angles are the same on all tables where the playing surface length is twice the width so the rub is that the point where the CB needs to contact the OB to put it in the pocket does not change with table size.
What does change is if you have the slightest bit of wobble in your stroke it will have more time for unintended english to have an effect because the balls are traveling further. Ditto if you are the slightest bit off on your aim.
I have a a detached retina in my right eye. It's mostly reset (going on 20-30 years already) but one bizarre artifact is magnification is greater in that eye and spheres are particularly prone to retinal distortion; they appear egg shaped through that eye. I've gone through many changes in order to address the cognitive discomfort but I come to the conclusion that it's just discomfort and has negligible influence on matters Newtonian. So...
The double vision is just geometry. With your chin on the stick the eyes are pretty much left and right views. Instead of going astigmatic just to see the tip of the cue, I don't bother and just aim with the parallel cue image. The Duh-pihpany being the chin is already centered on my face, it is also the stick locator.
Oh and while shooting eyes shut will eliminate all confirmation bias/errors, it 2 skery. Shooting cue ball last is almost like a security blanket lol...