The Break...change the rack position ?

[nancewayne]

It seems in any pool game someone figures out how to make a ball on the break, ie., Deuel's soft break, etc.. Has anyone thought of moving the rack's position slightly forward (1/2 inch)? That is enough change to not allow the wing ball to go in the corner and other typical ball patterns to make balls. There is nothing that can't be changed, ie., U.S. Open 9-ball racking the 9-ball on the spot.

Your thoughts?

 

[Kevin Lindstrom]

Question

It seems in any pool game someone figures out how to make a ball on the break, ie., Deuel's soft break, etc.. Has anyone thought of moving the rack's position slightly forward (1/2 inch)? That is enough change to not allow the wing ball to go in the side and other typical ball patterns to make balls. There is nothing that can't be changed, ie., U.S. Open 9-ball racking the 9-ball on the spot.

Your thoughts?

When you move the rack 1/2" forward and then someone figures out how to make a ball off of that postion, what do you do then?

Kevin

 

[CreeDo]

As you said they already thought of that, racking the 9 on the spot.

It is very possible to make the ball after moving the rack a half inch. You just move the CB closer to the rail and eventually cut break if you have to. It gets difficult when you've moved it several inches, like the 9-on-the-spot.

On some tables, 1 in the side is so consistent you'd almost have to do something about that too.

 

[nancewayne]

To more define my question, has anyone done a study of which ball goes where, let's say on a 9-ball rack, when the head ball is spotted at different distances from the head spot? I've found that 1/2 inch ahead of the spot works best to minimize making a ball on the break. (Of course, there may be a collision of balls that changes the pattern).

 

[nancewayne]

I simply wondered if anyone has studied which location is best to minimize balls being made on the break. Maybe a drawn line from the head spot 4 inches back to to the typical 9 ball location and the person racking could choose where to put the TIGHT rack head ball? (just another idea?)

When you move the rack 1/2" forward and then someone figures out how to make a ball off of that postion, what do you do then?

Kevin

 

[woody_968]

I dont really understand why its bad to be able to make a ball consistently off the break?

 

[Blackball75]

In British 8-ball (Blackball), the 8-ball, not the apex ball, is on the foot spot!

This also applies to international Blackball, I believe.

 

[nancewayne]

If that IS the case, wouldn't be similiar to smashing the rack, whether making a ball or not and then having ball in hand to start playing the rack....kind of like playing the ghost. I know that is a bad comparison, but if the breaker ALWAYS makes at least one ball of a 9-ball rack, it sure makes the run out easier and creates an advantage for those that know "the trick" to making a ball every time~!

I don't really understand why its bad to be able to make a ball consistently off the break?

 

[stitch]

10 ball

everyone i know started playing 10 ball for this reason, it seems the rack doesnt break as good

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I dont really understand why its bad to be able to make a ball consistently off the break?

That's a very good question, but perhaps better suited for another thread.

But since many people take issue with the ease of 9 ball, Wayne's question is a good one.

What racking position makes the 9 ball break the most difficult?

 

[brandoncook26]

That's a very good question, but perhaps better suited for another thread.

But since many people take issue with the ease of 9 ball, Wayne's question is a good one.

What racking position makes the 9 ball break the most difficult?

Play 10 ball, problem solved . As was mentioned before, 9 ball is too easy to make a ball on the break. IIRC, the reason they moved the 9ball to the spot was because the wing ball was dead after they tapped the balls for the sardo rack. Good players have moved to 10 ball, and if your not good enough to run out, it shouldn't matter if you make a ball on the break or not because you will most likely not get out.

 

[woody_968]

That's a very good question, but perhaps better suited for another thread.

But since many people take issue with the ease of 9 ball, Wayne's question is a good one.

What racking position makes the 9 ball break the most difficult?

Good point.

I did mess around with rack position the other day. Ive started using a magic rack and the focus on the break was controlling the one. Putting the nine on the spot helped, but as others have pointed out with a nine ball rack if its really frozen every time good players will figure out how to make a ball from almost anywhere.

If its hard breaks people want to see, then I agree 10 ball would have to be the game played.

Woody

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Good point.

I did mess around with rack position the other day. Ive started using a magic rack and the focus on the break was controlling the one. Putting the nine on the spot helped, but as others have pointed out with a nine ball rack if its really frozen every time good players will figure out how to make a ball from almost anywhere.

If its hard breaks people want to see, then I agree 10 ball would have to be the game played.

Woody

I'm getting better with the Magic Rack on 10 ball - on making one of the 2nd row balls into the side. I expect to get better at it by learning how to adjust how the 2nd row ball comes off by changing the cue ball angle, speed, and tip placement.

If I can get a good % on this, I don't think it will be beneficial to hit the rack real hard. Lots of similarities to the 9 ball break.

 

[Majic]

To more define my question, has anyone done a study of which ball goes where, let's say on a 9-ball rack, when the head ball is spotted at different distances from the head spot? I've found that 1/2 inch ahead of the spot works best to minimize making a ball on the break. (Of course, there may be a collision of balls that changes the pattern).

Just guessing here But the rack location in combination with cue ball location seems to provide and infinitesimal number of points to test.


Thats something you can test at the Elks Lodges one weekend.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

No matter how you rack someone will figure out a way to break and make something. Putting the 9 on the spot makes the 1 ball in the side easier. Moving the rack forward or back a halft inch just means you gotta adjust your speed when breaking. The wing ball will still go. I think the people who complain about a ball on the break every break are just mad cause they cant do it. If everyone did it everytime then it would be even. Everyone should just learn to make it. Its like the people who cant jump and say jump sticks are cheating.



If you cant do it, then practice till you can

 

[TXsouthpaw]

everyone i know started playing 10 ball for this reason, it seems the rack doesnt break as good

Someone will figure the 10 ball rack out soon too. The 2 balls behind the 1 ball can be made regularly, theyre just not as predictable as the wingball in 9 ball. We should just switch to rotation.

 

[Majic]

Someone will figure the 10 ball rack out soon too. The 2 balls behind the 1 ball can be made regularly, theyre just not as predictable as the wingball in 9 ball. We should just switch to rotation.

Yup, the balls just behind the one can be made in the side. Rotation is king !!!

 

[CreeDo]

The balls behind the head ball in 10 ball are made pretty much the same as in a full 15 ball rack of rotation. You can make them breaking 8 ball or rotation too. So switching to rotation doesn't solve the 'problem'.

The reason it's considered a problem is easily highlighted in TAR 17, where donny mills makes the same wing ball literally 70 times in a row (more, I don't recall the exact number). He also gets a decent shot on the 1 about 70-80% of the time. At pro level, this leads to large packages... 6 packs and more. You almost HAVE to race to 100 to find out who is the better player over the long haul. Some have even suggested 100 isn't enough.

The two balls behind the head ball are NOT in the same category. The 9 ball wing ball is damn near a frozen combo. It can be made at any speed, and if you break from the sweet spot... it'll drop whether you're shooting it at shane-miles-per-hour or just corey speed. It can even tolerate some draw and sidespin put on the cueball and still drop.

I'd love to see someone make those two-behind-the-head with that sort of consistency.

Pros seem to feel that 10 ball isn't giving something free on the break, and they've had a couple of years to work at it, so it seems like it's good enough for the time being.

 

[TheBook]

Racking variations have been tried. Some tournaments spot the 9 ball over the spot. Breaking out of the box. Requirements for a certain number of balls to cross the center pocket and all of the variations.

Pro pool players are so good that when something new comes up that is all they have to do is pratice that break. Plus with the use of cameras and other divices they can figure it out.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

Racking variations have been tried. Some tournaments spot the 9 ball over the spot. Breaking out of the box. Requirements for a certain number of balls to cross the center pocket and all of the variations.

Pro pool players are so good that when something new comes up that is all they have to do is pratice that break. Plus with the use of cameras and other divices they can figure it out.

Thats what I was saying. Just adding a ball isnt gonna be enough or even switching to full rack rotation. What if we switched to rotation and someone figured that break out? What then? play 3cushion. Everyone just needs to figure out the wing ball break then it wouldnt be an advantage for anyone anymore.