"The Checks are in the mail." Oh Dear...

[Johnnyt]

Let me see here. Uh, I am going to pay all of you at the end of the tournament! You must stay all week to collect when the tournament is over. Uh, the check is in the mail.
Seems pretty cut and dry, the guy lied, period!! What do you not understand? Now he is having the site reworked hopeing everybody forgets the broken promises. Sheesh guys! What's it gonna take to open your eyes. Good luck to you all.
Purdman

That's way too simple an answer for on here. Nothing to talk about.Johnnyt

 

[Al-fahl Amir]

Corey was supposed to pick up my check, but called and said they will be mailed to us now. That's all he said and didn't sound too bothered by it. I don't think waiting a week or two for a check that's going to clear is that big a deal. Corey's been waiting 5 years for the rest of his U.S. Open money to come and if it ever does it still could bounce.

 

[Al-fahl Amir]

Corey told me he wished he could of done better in the tournament, but he also said, usally when you come in 6th place, your stuck 4 or 5 hundred, but in this tournament he's on the plus about 49,000 after expenseses, which is the most he has ever made in one event.

 

[Scottster]

"Danny" is possibly none too pleased with the poster for making a post of that nature

FYI Thats not the case I assure you. I am optimistic and believe the earnings will be paid.

For some of the players, the canceling of London raised a big red flag. It gave them a reason to doubt being paid. If you dont understand why do some research. They also have this thought in the back of their head that the IPT is too good to be true, and when instances like this happen, it recollects bad Pool Tour memories that raise their doubts.

All of the card holders want the IPT to to succeed, it is just very hard on the emotions when a payment issue shows its head once again.

One thing to remember, KT and Ho definately have the assets to cover the payouts, unlike some promoters of the past.

 

[Gabber]

One thing to remember, KT and Ho definately have the assets to cover the payouts, unlike some promoters of the past.

We know Ho has the money but does he have anything to do with the IPT? As far as I can remember KT claimed he sold 49% of the IPT a while back. [ Anyone remember that? ]

I,m pretty sure a lot of players were pissed about not getting their money but what can they do?
What if KT decides to pay the larger prize payouts in instalments?? Anything is possible.

If a week before the tourny the IPT had announced that all prizemoney would be mailed, players could have saved themselves unneccessary costs of staying and this thread would never have existed.
To me the biggest outrage is letting players stay the whole week expecting to pick up their check when the IPT knew they wouldn't be paying out.



Gabber

 

[crosseyedjoe]

"My guess is she is referring to the interest on $3M for a week..."


I remember my previous boss doing that, putting our payroll in a short time deposit account. Then one day all our paychecks bounced. Well he learned his lesson when we asked for reimbursement of the bank fee, LOL.

 

[Eydie Romano]

FYI Thats not the case I assure you. I am optimistic and believe the earnings will be paid.

For some of the players, the canceling of London raised a big red flag. It gave them a reason to doubt being paid. If you dont understand why do some research. They also have this thought in the back of their head that the IPT is too good to be true, and when instances like this happen, it recollects bad Pool Tour memories that raise their doubts.

All of the card holders want the IPT to to succeed, it is just very hard on the emotions when a payment issue shows its head once again.

One thing to remember, KT and Ho definately have the assets to cover the payouts, unlike some promoters of the past.

Scott,

Did they happen to say "when" the checks would be sent out? Will you please advise us on when Danny does get his check.

 

[parvus1202]

I read in one Philippine news that Efren got his IPT KOTH paycheck, but he was shock how much tax the IRS has taken out. He did not say how much though. But he was paid.

 

[cueball1950]

I read in one Philippine news that Efren got his IPT KOTH paycheck, but he was shock how much tax the IRS has taken out. He did not say how much though. But he was paid.

While i don't know about Efren's KOTH check i do know that when a foreign player wins a tournament here that a promoter has to hold 1/3 of their winnings for taxes. Unless a player has some type of social security card or tax number of some type. i know that when Thorston Hohman won the Joss Event at Turning Stone Casino last winter they had to hold back 1/3 of his winnings......

Now on why i think the players had to wait the week out. Could it be that the IPT and KT had promised the venue a certain number of rooms rented for the week. Did the players have to stay at that venue. Was it mandatory for them to stay there. Were they told that they had to stay the whole week in order to get paid....what ever the reason they did not get paid right away the players should have been told up front. The IPT had to know that they would not be paying the players on site and should have told them. I sometimes wonder why Deno does not come on here to defend his boss KT and explain the reasons why these things happen. Are his hands tied as to what he can say or do? Alot of people including myself would take Deno at his word and say no more....just my usual ramblings....................mike

 

[DaveK]

That's way too simple an answer for on here. Nothing to talk about.Johnnyt

Johnny, there is an easy solution to this too, just call him "Turdman" ... that'll get some more talk

Dave

 

[jay helfert]

While i don't know about Efren's KOTH check i do know that when a foreign player wins a tournament here that a promoter has to hold 1/3 of their winnings for taxes. Unless a player has some type of social security card or tax number of some type. i know that when Thorston Hohman won the Joss Event at Turning Stone Casino last winter they had to hold back 1/3 of his winnings......

Now on why i think the players had to wait the wek out. Could it be that the IPT and KT had promised the venue a certain number of rooms rented for the week. Did the players have to stay at that venue. Was it mandatory for them to stay there. Were they told that they had to stay the whole week in order to get paid....what ever the reason they did not get paid right away the players should have been told up front. The IPT had to know that they would not be paying the players on site and should have told them. I sometimes wonder why Deno does not come on here to defend his boss KT and explain the reasons why these things happen. Are his hands tied as to what he can say or do? Alot of people including myself would take Deno at his word and say no more....just my usual ramblings....................mike

30% is the correct amount for some foreign nationals whose countries do not have a tax treaty with the U.S. This includes Canada and the Philipines. So if Efren won $200,000, they could have held out $60,000 for the IRS.

 

[wvroadrunner]

If you can handle payouts, fully conforming to IRS and PATRIOT act requirements, for several hundred people from dozens of countries when the payouts aren't known until the day the checks are cut, bearing in mind that there are "sponsors" who also need reimbursement, without any inaccuracy in half an hour, please send me your resume.

That said, I do agree that they should have been able to get this done over the weekend, and had checks for the players before they left.

However, it seems unlikely that

1) the money was held to generate interest. as memikey says, the risk/reward is out of wack. That seems unlikely.

2) Kiting also seems unlikely- KT's not depositing many checks right now. Strictly speaking kiting (aka hanging paper) is done by depositing fraudulent checks, and pulling the funds out before the bad checks are discovered.

I think the most likely problem was related to accounting: system not in place, couldn't reconcile the accounts, broke the check printer, etc. But if one looks for impropriety, my bet is that there simply isn't enough money to draw on, and I imagine KT and the IPT do not have a large line of credit to use. I would certainly not extend much credit to them. If that's the case, holding the checks might be to *avoid* a federal crime.

How was the IPT funded? How is it structured? I can't imagine there's much revenue - certainly not enough to cover the costs. I just don't see much opportunity for fraud here. As I understand it KT is fronting a lot of the cash. If he's laundering money, this seems really inefficient (not to mention brazenly public).

Regardless, it seems the answer is bad accounting: either in processing payments, or in budgeting.

They should call Mark Griffin the BCA has been giving players checks within hours after matches for years. They have thousands of players at their
Nationals in Vegas.

 

[Eieio59]

I'm speaking only on my behalf, so I don't want to imply that all tour players feel this same way. Just to give an idea of what some of us (myself and a few others that I've spoken with). Sure, we were disappointed when the checks weren't handed out. Some of us had stayed the week, others - like myself - had not. In fact, I had considered flying back out to Reno on Sunday morning to pick up my check and, most of all, watch the finals..but had decided not to. If I had flown back out I probably would have been disappointed or even angry, however, I'll never know. Anyway, this is the first time in my pool career (now entering my 29th year playing tournaments) that anyone has offered anything even close to this tour. If it all went away today, I could still live with it. After spending years driving and flying back and forth across the country chasing usually tiny purses and then sweating getting paid, I find this tour exciting, challenging and yes, the future of our sport. KT, Deno, MS and others have invested a lot of time and money into this venture and I honestly can't see them putting it all on the line over a small issue like this. In my opinion, and just my opinion....if there would have been anything they could have done to avoid this, they would have. I've spoken with Deno and KT many times on different subjects and both have been nothing short of very professional, straight-forward and - yes - honest. Moreover, throughout the week at the tournament I had conversations with many of the staff members as well and, as usual, all were professional, courteous and informed. Which brings me to my original thought......after looking these people in the eye and talking with them all week, I choose to believe that they will stand good for everything - and I like to think that I'm pretty good at deciding who I can take at their word or not.

Yes, I'm a tour player (and therefore have an investment). Yes, I'm a "chosen" one who some say don't belong. My point is this. Even if I had no investment or weren't a player at all, I base my opinions on "eyeballing" these guys and ladies all week and I certainly choose to believe them and give it the benefit of the doubt, just as Linda did. I realize that some players were depending on that cash - and that they needed it then. I was one of them. I can certainly sympathize them as I know what it means to have to have the tournament money to pay for the rent. I hope that at least some type of arrangements were made to help those players at that time. It's not me I'm worried about...... it's my 8-year old daughter who I promised I would buy a pair of "Healies"! She, for the time being, is content to wait - just as I hope the other players are.

Growing pains......they never feel good.

 

[Eieio59]

Other points of interest...... they problem that they stated was NOT with issuing the checks..... the checks never arrived.

The other point of interest was that they did NOT require players to stay at the host hotel. Players could have stayed at any local hotel with the price of their choice. A luxury that I only wish the other tours would provide.

They did not require players to stay until Sunday. Once you were out of the tournament, you were free to leave. For the first time, however, I think the players actually WANTED to stay! Not just for the payout at the end, but also for the great matches.

Just wanted to throw these out there because their seemed to have been some questions along those lines.

Don't bash me, just reporting!

Tammie Jones

 

[wahcheck]

Thank You Very Much

Other points of interest...... they problem that they stated was NOT with issuing the checks..... the checks never arrived.

The other point of interest was that they did NOT require players to stay at the host hotel. Players could have stayed at any local hotel with the price of their choice. A luxury that I only wish the other tours would provide.

They did not require players to stay until Sunday. Once you were out of the tournament, you were free to leave. For the first time, however, I think the players actually WANTED to stay! Not just for the payout at the end, but also for the great matches.

Just wanted to throw these out there because their seemed to have been some questions along those lines.

Don't bash me, just reporting!

Tammie Jones

Thanks for your much needed input.....far from bashing your post, I commend you and thank you for it....it was articulate and mostly positive, which is really refreshing after you have read umpteen posts bashing the IPT...I was there in Reno, and I was definitely impressed with the amenities and as you did, I spoke to some of the staff, and came away satisfied that they were more than competent and professional.....I also hope everyone gets paid ASAP so the grumbling will stop and I hope the IPT lasts for many more years to come....for the good of the game..............

 

[TheOne]

Other points of interest...... they problem that they stated was NOT with issuing the checks..... the checks never arrived.

The other point of interest was that they did NOT require players to stay at the host hotel. Players could have stayed at any local hotel with the price of their choice. A luxury that I only wish the other tours would provide.

They did not require players to stay until Sunday. Once you were out of the tournament, you were free to leave. For the first time, however, I think the players actually WANTED to stay! Not just for the payout at the end, but also for the great matches.

Just wanted to throw these out there because their seemed to have been some questions along those lines.

Don't bash me, just reporting!

Tammie Jones

From what I hear all correct and valid points.

 

[Eieio59]

Thanks for your much needed input.....far from bashing your post, I commend you and thank you for it....it was articulate and mostly positive, which is really refreshing after you have read umpteen posts bashing the IPT...I was there in Reno, and I was definitely impressed with the amenities and as you did, I spoke to some of the staff, and came away satisfied that they were more than competent and professional.....I also hope everyone gets paid ASAP so the grumbling will stop and I hope the IPT lasts for many more years to come....for the good of the game..............

Wish I would have known you were there - would have loved to have someone else to sweat the matches with! A few of us just went from match to match to match sweating! I will admit that after all of these years playing in events, I was awestruck. I mean - not so much with the players - although having all of them in the same arena at the same time is too good to be true, but with the whole concept and the arena. Just awesome conditions and I do hope that things go well for the whole tour and it continues for many years to come.

Tammie Jones

 

[Wally in Cincy]

Nostroke,
Perhaps the Burger Barge noticed you didn't bring your wallet????????

I think they they were intimidated by his devastating good looks, I have the same problem there.

 

[Williebetmore]

I think they they were intimidated by his devastating good looks, I have the same problem there.

Wally,
No, it's probably your extreme modesty that has them feeling intimidated.

 

[parvus1202]

Internet news on Reyes...

"Reyes won 500,000 dollars, the biggest prize in billiards, after ruling the International Pool Tour (IPT) 2006 World Open 8-Ball championship at the Grand Sierra Resort and Casino in Reno.

But Reyes said the money would still be subjected to a 30-percent tax in the United States. His prize, he said, would be sent to him in the coming days.

Even his IPT trophy that is as tall as him was left in the Reno for shipping to Manila."

He won $500,000 and seems he is not worried.