The Clock System

[Tony_in_MD]

Here is what I believe is the dead truth for all systems, which I am glad to see pop up here in red.

Learn the system, and then practice it until it is fully internalized. At that point you don't have to think about it any more in order to perform it on demand.

There is a lot of work to learn and internalize a system.

I use 2 clocks on the cue ball, some player's use 3 or 4.

For myself the rail system part of it is unnessarsay; it is clearly useful for some players.
Angles are visually obvious to see, I think its poor cue delivery that loses the desired angle.

Our eyes know where to send the cue ball. We are constantly altering the natural path, sending it long or short with stroke, speed, spin. It would be great if we could play every shot forward and natural to the angle, everyone would be a World Champ.

I believe using the inside clock or outside clock helps players with cue tip precision and aim accuracy, to strike where you aim, especially early stage players, then it carries on as you advance.

I don't think about the clock that much because it is ingrained in my head, but it's always there. You can dial in to needle points and strike between numbers, like hitting at 4:30, 11: 55 or 11:59 on either clock.

Today it's easy to see strike points and how top players zoom in, just watch YouTube.
The recent world events had fantastic camera work. You can watch almost any match and see the camera zoomed in on the tip finding its strike point on the preliminary strokes. You can see the cue stick moving slightly off until it is in line and on point, and then they deliver.

I try to play inside the cue ball and the inside clock, it simplifies everything for me, and I can generate plenty of spin on the inside. That does not mean inside English. I have no problem playing outside clock to the extreme edges as I do play a lot of 3 cushion billiards.

Clock management works very well and a great tool in the bag whether you use just the cue ball and or the rails, to each their own.

I have many posts on the clock system, most were overlooked.

 

[RiverCity]

Here is what I believe is the dead truth for all systems, which I am glad to see pop up here in red.

Learn the system, and then practice it until it is fully internalized. At that point you don't have to think about it any more in order to perform it on demand.

There is a lot of work to learn and internalize a system.

 

[Petros Andrikop]

Approaching CB in two clock circles functions mainly in carom games, rarely in pool due to relative shaft diameters and CB size.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Approaching CB in two clock circles functions mainly in carom games, rarely in pool due to relative shaft diameters and CB size.

You might be correct about rarely, but I basically have 5 levels out in mind minds eye. I started at 13 hitting out near the miscue area. When I say that I'm looking ate the part of the tip that will contact the ball & not the entire diameter of the tip.

I have had several friends that were amazed at how far out I hit the ball as they could not make themselves go anywhere near there. I think it might have been due to a fear of a miscue for them. I always used very soft Elk Master or Brunswick Blue Diamond tips & never had a fear of a miscue.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Petros Andrikop]

You might be correct about rarely, but I basically have 5 levels out in mind minds eye. I started at 13 hitting out near the miscue area. When I say that I'm looking ate the part of the tip that will contact the ball & not the entire diameter of the tip.

I have had several friends that were amazed at how far out I hit the ball as they could not make themselves go anywhere near there. I think it might have been due to a fear of a miscue for them. I always used very soft Elk Master or Brunswick Blue Diamond tips & never had a fear of a miscue.

Just some food for thought.

Yes, it's possible to hit the CB near the miscue area, even beyond that, but it is not recommended when playing. Besides, that much of "accuracy" or "action" on the CB is not needed in Pool on a general basis.

 

[Ratta]

The Clock System from Buddy is pretty accurate-


as soon as you have a REALLY CONSISTANT STROKE- including a repeatable *speed* the system is really accurate.

But without a repeatable accurate stroke (hitting cueball exactly, repeatable acceleration, repeatable straightness)..... best system in the universe can never work.

 

[Johnnyt]

It works, but there are easier ways to figure this out. Johnnyt

 

[bdorman]

What is the best tip to use with the Clock System?








Sorry....I couldn't resist.

However, I'm NOT going to ask about using the Clock System with CTE.

 

[dawgcpa]

Clock system

I use something similar except that I don't equate to a clock face. I figure out the tangent line off the object ball first. Then use top or bottom (in degrees) to change the tangent line to the rail. Use right or left to effect the ball path off the rail. By practicing with variations of these, it has improved my cue ball path quite a bit. Still a long way to go but at least I have some idea when moving the cue ball in traffic....

 

[SmoothStroke]

Response for Petros,I thought I quoted you.

The clocks are just larger for carom, same concept.

Think Flava Flav for carom
Think Wrist Watch for 2-1/4 cue ball

Use the quarter reference and stay inside the cue ball and inside clock, go to the outside clock when necessary, one must do it all.
To Say I never think about the clock or the quarter may be off base.
This is more realistic. (I saw my life flash before my eyes) It's basically in a blink of an eye.
The reason being it is ingrained in my routine from countless hours of work.

The cue ball is art, striking with precision is crucial on every shot, hangers get no respect by many players, they shake their head when they dump the cue ball.

I am for anything that aids in precision, knowing all well that precision ends on the next stroke or the one after that, that’s when we recover and get back into focus.

There are these little things we do during one shot that helps to keep us mentally locked in, precision striking is just one that works for me. I think Clocks and Quarter references should be in every player's pocket, especially early stage players.

Let it all flow nicely and bring your most important tool, your straight stroke.

Sincerely:SS

 

[SmoothStroke]

What is the best tip to use with the Clock System?








Sorry....I couldn't resist.

However, I'm NOT going to ask about using the Clock System with CTE.

The Swatch, it comes with a layered leather wrist band

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yes, it's possible to hit the CB near the miscue area, even beyond that, but it is not recommended when playing. Besides, that much of "accuracy" or "action" on the CB is not needed in Pool on a general basis.

I hear you, but sometimes the need comes up & if one has never used it they either won't or they will have no confidence & rarely execute it well.

To me, there is no reason to not become at least a bit familiar in stroking the ball in every possible manner.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Response for Petros,I thought I quoted you.

The clocks are just larger for carom, same concept.

Think Flava Flav for carom
Think Wrist Watch for 2-1/4 cue ball

Use the quarter reference and stay inside the cue ball and inside clock, go to the outside clock when necessary, one must do it all.
To Say I never think about the clock or the quarter may be off base.
This is more realistic. (I saw my life flash before my eyes) It's basically in a blink of an eye.
The reason being it is ingrained in my routine from countless hours of work.

The cue ball is art, striking with precision is crucial on every shot, hangers get no respect by many players, they shake their head when they dump the cue ball.

I am for anything that aids in precision, knowing all well that precision ends on the next stroke or the one after that, that’s when we recover and get back into focus.

There are these little things we do during one shot that helps to keep us mentally locked in, precision striking is just one that works for me. I think Clocks and Quarter references should be in every player's pocket, especially early stage players.

Let it all flow nicely and bring your most important tool, your straight stroke.

Sincerely:SS

...:thumbup2:...

 

[Petros Andrikop]

Thanks for the response guys, I'm not arguing against what you are saying, I'm only pointing out the practical significance regarding tip distance further away from CB center. Carom balls are 2.42" and modern 3C cue tips average 11.5mm, there you have tip placement in more distinct areas compared to 2.25" Pool balls and average 12.75mm cue tips.

 

[Neil]

Thanks for the response guys, I'm not arguing against what you are saying, I'm only pointing out the practical significance regarding tip distance further away from CB center. Carom balls are 2.42" and modern 3C cue tips average 11.5mm, there you have tip placement in more distinct areas compared to 2.25" Pool balls and average 12.75mm cue tips.

If you judge a tip of english as 3mm, which is the size of the contact area of the tip on the cb, it doesn't matter if you have a 13mm tip or an 12 mm tip. The contact area will be the same. 3mm is the size of the red circle on a red circle cb.

 

[RiverCity]

The Swatch, it comes with a layered leather wrist band

Dont forget they also made some cool shades......... OHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH

 

[Petros Andrikop]

If you judge a tip of english as 3mm, which is the size of the contact area of the tip on the cb, it doesn't matter if you have a 13mm tip or an 12 mm tip. The contact area will be the same. 3mm is the size of the red circle on a red circle cb.

Good point. I refer to the actual tips of english according to the actual tip size used, which does affect tip placement on CB. I agree "size doesn't matter" that much in Pool, those subtle differences are more distinct on a Carom ball though. In fact they are incorporated into systematic Carom play, either free style (plus the use of "zones") or 3C play. So I'm talking the significance of tip placement approach on the CB (playing a role in defining distinct clock circles), not tip contact area.

 

[trob]

No system is 100% but I can tell you I use this often and effectively. It gives you a good general idea where the cue ball is going to take the guessing out of it. It helps me often to make sure I miss a scratch , miss hitting a ball that's in the cue balls path or make contact with one. Yes you do still need stroke , knowledge and experience to go along with. No system whether it be aiming or position is ever perfect .... There are to many different things that come into play for any banking ,kicking or aiming system to be anything more then a good starting point.

This stuff doesn't work.. Its like any "system"... it will give you an approximate way to sort of come close to where you need to go..

If you try it in real life, it acts totally different and you end up making a bunch of adjustments to "prove" the system "works"...

Variables:

humidity
type of cloth
age of cloth
ball type
ball cleanliness
skill of person shooting
..prob more I missed..

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If you judge a tip of english as 3mm, which is the size of the contact area of the tip on the cb, it doesn't matter if you have a 13mm tip or an 12 mm tip. The contact area will be the same. 3mm is the size of the red circle on a red circle cb.

Another way to judge a "tip" is to think of how many are the maximum possible before miscuing. For most players that seems to fall in the range of 2 to 3 tips.

That encourages you to think in terms of "fractions of maximum" - if you feel 3 tips is maximum, then 1 tip is 1/3 of maximum, etc. I think fractions (or percentages) of maximum English is a universal measure that everybody can understand and agree on.

It was discussed recently in this thread: How Much Is A Tip Of English?

I like to think of 3 "tips" as maximum because dividing the range of English into thirds matches my way of "calibrating" sidespin's effect on rebound angles - here's a thread about that: Calibrating Sidespin

pj
chgo

 

[app4dstn]

Kid D bring me the AHA's

make CB path more predictable.

give you an approximate way to sort of come close to where you need to go..

If you play with it, you learn the concepts. Nothing on a pool table is 100% accurate. As you stated, too many variables. However like most systems, its a starting point or a frame of reference to go off of instead of blind guessing.

FWIW, as D+/C- level player like me, the system is predictable and gives me a rough guide to where my cue ball is going.

a standard part of my warm up to get a feel for a table. :thumbup:

figuring what English to put on the cue ball to get it to go where you want.

Doesn't the cut angle/speed, etc affect this? not sure how you could use it consistently for various shots around the table. I like the simplicity though and the clock idea for english tip positions is easy to understand.

Danny Basavich also put out a tape on the clock system.

a few months after i started playing last year, i stumbled upon the Kid Delicious video (i had no idea who he was). and it completely blew my mind. at that time, i had zero (ZERO!) awareness of CB-rail-spin effects. i had previously only seen (in league) natural angle/follow style play, and i just figured you had to go back/forth from one end to the other using speed to get into position for the next ball. seeing the ball go off the rail and NOT follow the natural angle was a major "AHA" moment for me.

so i tried to figure it out, and in doing so, it dawned on me that this game is going to get harder before it becomes easier. when you go from trying to make 1 ball to trying to make multiple balls, your head explodes. there's so many variables to consider.

on my home table (furniture style olhausen), i'd try a shot where CB is at center table, the OB is at 2nd diamond and not quite frozen on the long rail, and you want to return back to center table, 45* angle in and 45* angle back on the return. couldn't do it. had to move the ball to about 3/4 ball width off the rail to begin to see the varying effects of the points between 3oclock and 6oclock. it was frustrating and a cause for self-doubt. how come i can't do it like in the video?

i ended up not seeing a Valley table for a while as i wasn't playing in a league at this time. but as soon as i did, this was the first shot i tried on a side table. going through the same motions as i did at home had a completely different set of results. on the valley, i could actually freeze the OB on the rail, and get the ball to return. and was able to do it going from as low as 6oclock to as high as 130-2oclock with various speeds.

moving the OB to various distances of the rail, i could return to center table, but with a different stroke (speed, tip placement) than what would happen at home. so this is another significant "AHA" moment. i'm the same player, its the same shot situation, but 2 drastically different result sets depending on which place i'm at.

seeing, understanding, harnessing the concepts of the Wheel/clock..... BIG STUFF when you're still in the kiddie pool with floaties on