I usually agree with you, but on this one we are on different pages. How many US Opens have you won? John was/is/will continue to be a great player.
Regards,
John
The critics have been silenced...
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I usually agree with you, but on this one we are on different pages. How many US Opens have you won? John was/is/will continue to be a great player.
Regards,
John
The average pro cant produce a clean 14.1 run over ~100 balls.
Yep, a 600+ "clean" run is most definitely something "ANY" of the legends (dead and alive) could/can/would and WILL appreciate.
Anyone that doesn't, well, that in itself says where they are in the 14.1 pecking order.
different yardsticks
John,
We are just using different yardsticks to measure great. Efren, Earl, Sigel, and more. "Great" in my mind requires staying power. The greatest of all sports figures might be Olympic gold medalists yet if they do little before or after they are soon forgotten. I met and talked to a medalist that went on to be a legend in track and field. I'm not a big track and field guy but that was an honor I felt at the time.
I talked to Bobby Allison a few times one on one. Over six hundred wins at all levels, that is greatness. A driver I was a crew member for had hundreds of wins, a few championships, I don't know how many track records at one time or another. Bobby and Donnie looked up to him because he was a champion when they were cutting their teeth. He never broke into the top division and nobody would call him great. Even those with a few top division wins aren't considered great. It's a tough title to earn and it has to be earned.
Very few of today's pool players will ever be considered great simply because pool isn't seen as a very significant activity. Who is the world's greatest checkers player? Nobody knows because nobody really cares. Chess gets a little respect and people are recognized as chess greats.
Hu
John,
We are just using different yardsticks to measure great. Efren, Earl, Sigel, and more. "Great" in my mind requires staying power. The greatest of all sports figures might be Olympic gold medalists yet if they do little before or after they are soon forgotten. I met and talked to a medalist that went on to be a legend in track and field. I'm not a big track and field guy but that was an honor I felt at the time.
I talked to Bobby Allison a few times one on one. Over six hundred wins at all levels, that is greatness. A driver I was a crew member for had hundreds of wins, a few championships, I don't know how many track records at one time or another. Bobby and Donnie looked up to him because he was a champion when they were cutting their teeth. He never broke into the top division and nobody would call him great. Even those with a few top division wins aren't considered great. It's a tough title to earn and it has to be earned.
Very few of today's pool players will ever be considered great simply because pool isn't seen as a very significant activity. Who is the world's greatest checkers player? Nobody knows because nobody really cares. Chess gets a little respect and people are recognized as chess greats.
Hu
I would have to disagree , I think the average pro runs a 100 in a minimal amount of time of practice a top pro would do it pretty quick Filler has a 285 ball run on you tube , several top have over 200 some 300 and 2 over 400 who are still playing
1
The use of the term "clean" is confusing to me. What does it mean? The shooter never missed shape? There were no stressful racks? No difficult shots were made? No clusters ever remained in the late stages of any rack? There were no near scratches? If these are the requirements, then this will likely have been the first "clean" run of over 150 ever. Mike Sigel's 150 ad out run in the 1992 US Open vs Zuglan may have met these requirements, and Mosconi, who watched it live, called it a technically perfect run. Oh yeah, I was there, too, on that memorable night at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.
I'm with you on how the old masters would feel about the run. Straight pool was their game, and they'd be delighted to see it get a long-awaited moment in the spotlight and to see the level of John's commitment to keeping their game alive. I think they'd line up to shake his hand and say "well done."
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I was there too in 1992 and like you, had the good fortune to also watch Sigel's 150 and out, in-person.
I also saw that tournament's somewhat lackluster men's final during which Sigel defeated Dallas West after many innings (I'd imagine that you were there for the final also). While Mosconi was definitely present at the final (as an invited guest) and was acknowledged by the announcer, the audience, and respectfully by Sigel, but I've never before heard any indication that he was in the audience for Sigel's virtually flawless 150 and out, and that he made a public comment about the run. That's news to me.
Arnaldo
jarred
Well, my critics are silenced, or they would be if they were honest. john did indeed take something that chilled him right on out the last few days of his attempt and when he started getting big runs. He connects the two, if not the actual effect. I don't know if he took anything else but 5000% to 10,000% of the recommended daily allowance of B12 right before the attempts would be considered a PED. Funny thing, while he noticed better performance he may have been clueless as to why.
These drinks always give you a slug of caffeine and other ingredients to give you a quick burst of "feel good" and energy. What happens after that? Massive doses of B12 chill you right on out after a few hours. A complicated process to get the B12 to the small intestine without being digested then it is absorbed through the walls of the small intestine. Takes awhile. Drinking five hour energy leaves you a bit wired and would add to the jitters as big numbers were piling up. While B12 gives you energy long term over weeks, the short term effect lasting several days is to mellow you right on out.
john himself admits the stuff might have helped him over the line. It probably did but not for the reasons he thought! He might have been able to do it on his own but we will never know. By his own admission he was taking massive doses of B12 every day. He did indeed tranquilize himself, whether he knew it or not.
My wife had to take the shots or poppers, snorting B12 is another way to bypass the digestive system. She would be dragging around anyway, after B12 she would basically snooze away a day or two. Large doses of B12 just chills out a healthy person.
Hu
Speculations that he took at least one thing that functioned as a mild tranquilizer confirmed by none other than john himself. I started listening at about 7:30 into the video for context.
https://www.facebook.com/PredatorCues/videos/451666048976768
Well, my critics are silenced, or they would be if they were honest. john did indeed take something that chilled him right on out the last few days of his attempt and when he started getting big runs. He connects the two, if not the actual effect. I don't know if he took anything else but 5000% to 10,000% of the recommended daily allowance of B12 right before the attempts would be considered a PED. Funny thing, while he noticed better performance he may have been clueless as to why.
These drinks always give you a slug of caffeine and other ingredients to give you a quick burst of "feel good" and energy. What happens after that? Massive doses of B12 chill you right on out after a few hours. A complicated process to get the B12 to the small intestine without being digested then it is absorbed through the walls of the small intestine. Takes awhile. Drinking five hour energy leaves you a bit wired and would add to the jitters as big numbers were piling up. While B12 gives you energy long term over weeks, the short term effect lasting several days is to mellow you right on out.
john himself admits the stuff might have helped him over the line. It probably did but not for the reasons he thought! He might have been able to do it on his own but we will never know. By his own admission he was taking massive doses of B12 every day. He did indeed tranquilize himself, whether he knew it or not.
My wife had to take the shots or poppers, snorting B12 is another way to bypass the digestive system. She would be dragging around anyway, after B12 she would basically snooze away a day or two. Large doses of B12 just chills out a healthy person.
Hu
Speculations that he took at least one thing that functioned as a mild tranquilizer confirmed by none other than john himself. I started listening at about 7:30 into the video for context.
https://www.facebook.com/PredatorCues/videos/451666048976768
Your talk is hot, why don't you go and beat his record, Hu?
Come on! Show the world how much of a better shotmaker you are than a smack talker!
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old hat
I have already set four records coming behind a world champion and grandmasters. Bettered a world record too. It's kinda old hat for me. :thumbup:
Oh yeah, I didn't need any crutches to do any of it!
Hu
I have already set four records coming behind a world champion and grandmasters. Bettered a world record too. It's kinda old hat for me. :thumbup:
Oh yeah, I didn't need any crutches to do any of it!
Hu
I think so but I believe pool to be exempt from that. It’s a game where you’re always at the table alone, whether you have an opponent or not. And particularly in straight pool where if John had had an open shot...theoretically he could have run all those balls out and the presence of an opponent would’ve made no difference
Technically wouldn't his first shot not be a legal shot?
No because he just starts the run with a legal break shot, so it’s as if his opponent missed maybe with a couple balls left, JS cleaned them up and got good on the break ball...and then ran the f out for hours
You're a dreamer...
A legal break shot placed by hand?
You can subtract the first 14 balls if you want. But that’s how every attempt is made at the DCC etc. With ball in hand.
We can just subtract the first 14 balls from any records going forward if it makes you happy.
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That's not the point, I personally couldn't care less.
It's about official records, there are loads of pro Snooker players that have made hundreds of maximums in practice or exhibitions but very few are in the record books.
Kind of a different animal. In snooker the points your opponent makes limit the amount of points you can make. That's not true of straight pool.
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Also at snooker the number of points in a break is limited.
I think a better comparison would be English billiards where the length of the break is limited only by the accuracy and stamina of the player. The longest run (number of consecutive valid scoring shots) at any form of cue sport was at English billiards and was almost 250,000 shots by Tom Reece over 100 years ago. And he did it on a 12x6 table.