The Elbow Drop & The Cup Of Coffee

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, i havent posted in a long time, but i've been working on the game a little bit lately. i just put up a mirror next to my GCIV to see if i was dropping the elbow. Most instructors i have interacted with say the ideal way is to keep that elbow up, and a cup of coffee should stay up there during the stroke.

anyway, i kept noticing after i was done that my elbow had dropped. i couldnt understand it as i looked at the mirror. i was just about 100% certain i had not collapsed the elbow. yet there it was.

But then it dawned on me. the reason it looked like my elbow was dropping was because thats where it was starting in the first place. when i lifted up my elbow, got my upper arm more up in the air and parallel to the ground, it felt very uncomfortable. It was so uncomfortable that it almost hurt.

So......my question is whether or not its wrong to be at the starting point where i am at? when i align/aim/get set for the shot, my elbow is not flat and a cup of coffee would NOT sit up there. and it does look like i am keeping it fairly still as i stroke. and its very uncomfortable, i can feel the muscles reacting, when i get my upper arm that far up into the parallel position.

DCP
 
Can you post a video of you showing your stroking arm from the side? Shoot a few straight shots in the side pocket. It is difficult to tell from just a worded description.

Keeping a 90degree angle bewteen your cue and your forearm at the set position should not require you to raise your elbow up to where it's uncomfortable. Again, a video would help us help you.

Good luck.
 
Nice to see you post DCP.

Keep in mind, that even with those that teach no elbow drop (a very hot subject as always) most understand that there will be a little at the completion of the stroke. If that is what you are working on just strive to keep it to a minimum and always AFTER contact with the cue ball.

I have never seen you hit a ball, but I am going to guess you don't get real low on the cue. If I remember right you had some back issues, but I may have you confused with someone else. Anyway, if you are very high in your stance I dont think you will get your elbow very high without elevating your cue butt too high.

The cup of coffee thing is just to help keep the movement down, dont take it literally that your elbow should be in a flat position to hold that cup.

Take your stance and the height of your elbow should almost set itself. You want to have the cue as level as possible for the shot at hand, so dont create more elevation in the cue just to get your elbow into a certain position.

IMHO I think the position of your back hand and forearm in relation to the shot are more important than the beginning height of the elbow.

Hope this makes sense.

Woody
 
Mike...While it's not a "cup of coffee" thing, the concept is that the only part of your body that needs to move, is your forearm, from the elbow down. When the elbow moves up or down, the swing is being initiated from the shoulder joint, which changes the dynamic of the swing...from letting the cue weight and timing create the speed of the stroke; to letting muscle tension create the stroke. People who think you have to "hold" your elbow still are not conscious of what the pendulum swing is about. It is a very natural movement, that anyone can train themselves to do, with not much effort. This has been thoroughly detailed in randyg and my instructional video "Play Better Pool" Vol. 1. If you cannot come to pool school, and don't have the opportunity to work with an SPF instructor, do yourself a favor, and get this dvd. Your stroke will thank you! Mike, I'm going to send you a copy of this video...just pm me your address. It's been too many years, and I've lost it somewhere!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

DrCue'sProtege said:
Ok, i havent posted in a long time, but i've been working on the game a little bit lately. i just put up a mirror next to my GCIV to see if i was dropping the elbow. Most instructors i have interacted with say the ideal way is to keep that elbow up, and a cup of coffee should stay up there during the stroke.

anyway, i kept noticing after i was done that my elbow had dropped. i couldnt understand it as i looked at the mirror. i was just about 100% certain i had not collapsed the elbow. yet there it was.

But then it dawned on me. the reason it looked like my elbow was dropping was because thats where it was starting in the first place. when i lifted up my elbow, got my upper arm more up in the air and parallel to the ground, it felt very uncomfortable. It was so uncomfortable that it almost hurt.

So......my question is whether or not its wrong to be at the starting point where i am at? when i align/aim/get set for the shot, my elbow is not flat and a cup of coffee would NOT sit up there. and it does look like i am keeping it fairly still as i stroke. and its very uncomfortable, i can feel the muscles reacting, when i get my upper arm that far up into the parallel position.

DCP
Click to expand...
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
when i lifted up my elbow, got my upper arm more up in the air and parallel to the ground, it felt very uncomfortable. It was so uncomfortable that it almost hurt.
Click to expand...

You have to raise your elbow in order to get your upper arm parallel to the ground? You must be standing quite upright.

Most of the advice that you'll see about the stroke is meant for people who have their chin down either touching or within a few inches of the cue, like nearly all pros do. If you're significantly higher than that, though, your elbow would be significantly lower in relation to your shoulder.

The important thing that the instructors you mention are trying to convey is that you put your elbow in a position so that it's straight above your grip hand, and then leave it pinned there throughout the stroke, with only your lower arm moving. The cup of coffee comment is a misleading piece of advice; it's stillness you're striving for, not levelness.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
You have to raise your elbow in order to get your upper arm parallel to the ground? You must be standing quite upright.

Most of the advice that you'll see about the stroke is meant for people who have their chin down either touching or within a few inches of the cue, like nearly all pros do. If you're significantly higher than that, though, your elbow would be significantly lower in relation to your shoulder.

The important thing that the instructors you mention are trying to convey is that you put your elbow in a position so that it's straight above your grip hand, and then leave it pinned there throughout the stroke, with only your lower arm moving. The cup of coffee comment is a misleading piece of advice; it's stillness you're striving for, not levelness.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Amen....SPF=randyg
 
That's a good point about standing upright vs. getting down low. Most of the guys with very solid textbook fundamentals have their elbows angled almost upward. Their coffee would be more likely to fall forward than backwards.

DSC_1844.jpg

Mika%20Immonan_2.jpg


I wanted to find an image of a top player who has an elbow sloping down, and the first thing that came to mind for a very upright stance is mike massey. But it's hard to find a pic of mike just shooting a normal shot, lol. About all I could find was this:

Mike-M.jpg


His elbow definitely doesn't go above head level.

Without seeing video I would get A: get down lower on the cue and B: don't worry about the coffee just worry about minimizing unnecessary stroke movement.
 
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