The Future for American Cue Makers ...?

JoeyInCali said:
Yeah, then you'd have a gawdy-looking cue that not too many people want to buy.
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How many cuetec's sold last yr????

I would buy a cue from you any day of the yr. But I've run table's with a cuetec. I left it In my trunk of my car for 2yrs. I wouldn't leave your's
in my trunk for a day.
 
The future for cue building is whatever we make it , whatever we pass on ... wether it be quality or quantity ... to be successful in todays market you better have a strategy to reach out to whoever ... It's not enough to be great looking or sound in quality and playability ... the earlier decades had a somewhat small supply and larger demand which a few makers capitalized on ... Now much more is available in the way of machinery and tooling , even materials ... Although , in my opinion, wood quality is not what it used to be because of harvesting practices ... you've got people making cues with technical backgrounds that don't have a clue what a good cue hits like and can't draw their ball at all , but will build you a $4000 DOLLAR CUE ... It's all personal preference , nobody is better than anybody else , JUST DIFFERENT , I admit there are cues just made for profit and buyer beware ... with all the new makers out there the downside is the buyer has to wade through a huge selection and the bad apples spoil the whole barrel ... Nature takes its course no matter what and the makers with the heart and love of the game will survive ... How much they produce and when they produce it doesn't matter as long as they care ... we makers could become a force if we find the ability to unite and compliment each other , also compete in a format that where there are no losers , everybody wins ... maker and buyer alike ... one is not possible without the other ... There's alot more to it than just tree to tip , think about it for a moment, a cue is only a part of the game ...;)
 
Are mass produced cues made any differently?
I mean Ferrules, tips, "A" joints, butt sleeves, joint pins, shaft tapers, materials, finish, are all done basically the same and the parts could possibly even come from the very same source.
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yes they are made differently.
 
hotcues said:
How many cuetec's sold last yr????

I would buy a cue from you any day of the yr. But I've run table's with a cuetec. I left it In my trunk of my car for 2yrs. I wouldn't leave your's
in my trunk for a day.
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Yeah, but that market is for cheapo decal cues. There is a huge market for that.
I can import decal cues too for $20 each or so and sell them for $150.

Searing, Haley, Zeiler and Sugar Tree are not trying to get that market.
If you let cnc machines discouraged you from making cues, then cuemaking is not for you.
 
i agree about repairing cheap cues, you put a tip on it and they expect it to play like a custom cue. just because a custom builder replaced the tip. i learned my lesson really fast there. i also will not work on them. half of the cheap cues that have stainless joint you can grap the joint and it will come right of. the guy who wants to work on them i think will learn fast also, it is not worth the money to be married to the thing.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Yeah, but that market is for cheapo decal cues. There is a huge market for that.
I can import decal cues too for $20 each or so and sell them for $150.

Searing, Haley, Zeiler and Sugar Tree are not trying to get that market.
If you let cnc machines discouraged you from making cues, then cuemaking is not for you.
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I didn't say I didn't make cues! I said I saw the future of cue making and didn't
want to do it full-time.
 
WilleeCue said:
Ya Know, that might be one way to stave off the flood but how in the world are you gonna get all the American Cue Makers to do that.
Perhaps if members of the cue makers associations were to endorse that and its members actualy refused to repair offshore cues then other independents would do likewise .... but I dont think that is gonna happen.
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What would be the point of refusing to not fix peoples cues? Also, that is where your future customer comes from. No one starts out with a custom cue, but the relationships you build with customers through repairs or networking with leagues and so on is where your future orders come from.
 
i refuse all of the cheaply built overseas stuff.i have seen some good ones,namely Viattore,but anything else i will steer away.i have seen my teacher Alex take these cheap import jobs only to give himslef triple the work when the ferrule breaks or pops off,or the cue warps basically overnight while he is refinishing it,or the cue is too warped to properly refinish.

i don't want to burden myslef with that type work.
 
Good post Willee.

WilleeCue said:
So what do you think?
With all the new cue makers competing for the business and the influx of quality low price cues from overseas, do you see a future for the American Cue Maker?

Yes, absolutely. There will coninue to be pool and cue enthusiasts both here and abroad that will pay the going prices for well made cues from reputable makers. It's a different market than for the Chinese cues.

Do you think most of the new cue makers are hobbiests or people trying to make a living at it?

Hobby-job cuemkers, for certain.

I cant help think the 60's 70's and 80's were the golden years of cue making in the American Market but that era has past.

There's no doubt, in hindsight, that it was much easier to be successful if you made a decent product. Today's standards are higher and "decent" isn't good enough for a cuemaker who intends to break through to the upper echelon of makers.

I started eight years ago and good wood was available on eBay at a reasonable price. There were very few specialty houses catering to the cue maker. Now it seems there as many sources for materials as there are cue makers.

IMO, superior cue woods are almost always available to those who know where to obtain it and are willing to pay fair market prices for the quality it is. Part of the fun of being involved with the cues is stumbling across a terrific piece or wood or burl that is underpriced. I have found stellar pieces of cue woods at my local Rockler Woodworking store! I make a stop there when they send a 25% off one item coupon to the house.:grin-square:

With all the competition is there anything in the future that will revive the business like "The Hustler" movie did?

That remains to be seen! Unfortunately pool has fallen off some over the past few years. People have lots of choices. In Southern California business rents are extremely high and it is difficult to open a pool room in most communities. An hour of pool here is close to $10 or more in the evening. $5 gas isn't helping as it leaves fewer dollars for other things...including leisure. Hey Willee, I think its fantastic that you worked out of an apartment for a while. I respect people that pursue their craft despite obstacles and limitations. Martin
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I have to say...I've always found it interesting that many of your top pros are playing with Predators, Cuetecs, Scorpions, etc. Production cues. And...they seem to shoot just fine with them. I find it interesting when you watch pool on TV...that it's very seldom any mention is made of what the pros play with. Seeing as how the prize money in pool isn't exactly earthshattering...I find that most pros take whatever endorsements they can get. I don't see too many custom cue makers paying a pro to endorse their cues either. It's just really strange. The best cues in the industry aren't being carried around by the pros (or even the top money players, for the most part), they're being carried around by you and I. I find that very interesting.

Another thing I find interesting...is how many cues are in circulation that for all intent and purposes...simply aren't designed to be practical, everyday shooting cues. The ones that lean far more towards art than operating equipment...even though I'm sure they'd shoot lights out. I've found in all my time with cues...your biggest cue collectors...aren't necessarily your best or most devout pool shooters.
 
Mr Hoppe said:
I think the comeptition should be welcomed, and we should strive to continue to out perform them with quality, price, service, design, and innovation.
Mr H
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Amen....... the Edsel was a good car in its day but its time to improve
and move on. BUT many of the American cuemakers won't change with the market. "Who are you the cue buying public to tell me the Master(button pusher) Cuemaker how to build my cue. All my cues hit solid and consistant and the same". I'm not saying we should abandon Wood like golf did to evolve. But instead of always shooting down innovative ideas on AZ maybe just maybe some of them are good and have merit. Silly me nevermind just keep cranking the same old thing there's no money in new ideas just ask Predator.
 
There will always be a market for hand built, custom items. I think that people like myself love the idea that one man put his sweat and tears into making the best product he could possible make. It come out as a beautiful piece of functional art.
 
WilleeCue said:
So what do you think?
With all the new cue makers competing for the business and the influx of quality low price cues from overseas, do you see a future for the American Cue Maker?

Do you think most of the new cue makers are hobbiests or people trying to make a living at it?

I cant help think the 60's 70's and 80's were the golden years of cue making in the American Market but that era has past.

I started eight years ago and good wood was available on eBay at a reasonable price. There were very few specialty houses catering to the cue maker. Now it seems there as many sources for materials as there are cue makers.

With all the competition is there anything in the future that will revive the business like "The Hustler" movie did?
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I think this is a good thread and I also think that like others have said in this thread the competition from overseas is a very good thing. I think this competition will do a couple of things, some of these things many US Cue Makers will not like.

1) First with all the choices today for players, and the lower prices this competition brings more people will buy a cue of their own. Much of this initial business will be lower end cues ($25 - $150) and most will also be import brands. However, anything that sparks an interest in playing pool in my opinion is a good thing. In addition, many of these entry level players will join local pool leagues and upgrade their equipment in time. Lets face it, these National pool leagues( APA, BCA, TAP and others) attract more players who buy cues than anything else currently, which is good for all Cue makers.

2) In my opinion, the challenge to US Cue Makers is to find a niche in the Market that the Overseas Companies will have no interest in competing with. Myself, I believe tradition designs and construction techniques will always have a place in the Market. While the Asian Companies can produce anything that is made here. They will never produce products that area executed to a high level of perfection, unless they can make them by using automated construction techniques, like they are currently producing. The US Market that will suffer most from this production will be the Cue Makers who rely on CNC milling for their designs, their inlays, and their points. The Asians can duplicate and program a CNC Mill without any trouble to make anything made here. I think the US Cue Maker market that is geared toward traditional construction techniques and hands on craftsmanship will be least effected. I say this because when you compare every other wood working business the Asian products are always cheaper, and while the general quality is good, there is still a market for American craftsmanship that is not easily duplicated by Computer controled and programed machines.

I suspect that there is going to be a major impact on American Cue making, and that many will not survive the changes that are happening right now. But I also think it is clear, that trying to compete with the Import Market on it's terms, by making cues that have similar craftsmanship and designs that are computer generated is certainly a lose - lose situation. For those who can't or refuse to find niche segments of this market extinction is immanent and all I can say is good by Dinosaurs your Asteroid has arrived, if you can't adapt you Will Die.!!!!!

Just my thoughts.
 
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i dont care if its made in this country or not. if a company is popping out 1000 cues a year its not for me. there will always be a market for well made cues. like said before you will make your own market by doing top notch work

i would never turn away repair work thats just stupid. like throwing money in the garbage. i wont do the ultra cheapies with the pine shafts or whatever wood it is.
 
dave sutton said:
i would never turn away repair work thats just stupid. like throwing money in the garbage. i wont do the ultra cheapies with the pine shafts or whatever wood it is.
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Dave, dosent that statement kinda contradict itself?
Are you thinking of Ramin wood.
 
Rak9up said:
Amen....... the Edsel was a good car in its day but its time to improve
and move on. BUT many of the American cuemakers won't change with the market. "Who are you the cue buying public to tell me the Master(button pusher) Cuemaker how to build my cue. All my cues hit solid and consistant and the same". I'm not saying we should abandon Wood like golf did to evolve. But instead of always shooting down innovative ideas on AZ maybe just maybe some of them are good and have merit. Silly me nevermind just keep cranking the same old thing there's no money in new ideas just ask Predator.
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I can see your point ... to a degree.
There have been many cue makers that have tried many ways to improve the performance of the pool cue. Just about everything has been tried at one time or another.

Part of the problem is that learning to shoot pool is a hand eye coordination thing that involves feedback to the brain and memory.
If you learn to play decent with a house cue it will take some time to change those learned skills and memory's and adjust to a nice two piece one.
Same with the low deflection, high tech equipment.
I am sure that Predator's research has developed a shaft that has less deflection than a standard maple shaft and if you start out learning with a that equipment then all is fine and dandy.
The problem is when a good player that has invested hours and hours learning to play with a standard maple shaft cue, picks up the high tech shaft and shoots with it the cue responds different and the brain needs time to re-learn how to compensate for the shots.

Can you see how a good player might not like the high tech cue?
What do you think he will tell the newbies that ask for his advice?

And if the player is at a very high level of play with a standard maple shaft is it really worth his time to re-learn to play with the new technology?
Is there any assurance he will shoot any better if he does spend the time to adjust?
Is there any real assurance that anyone will shoot better if they switch?

That is why new ideas in pool cues are hard to take hold.
Most players feel that if their game is not broke ... why mess with it.

Personally, my favorite shaft is the OB1.
 
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WilleeCue said:
Well ... let's think about that for a second.

Are mass produced cues made any differently?
I mean Ferrules, tips, "A" joints, butt sleeves, joint pins, shaft tapers, materials, finish, are all done basically the same and the parts could possibly even come from the very same source.

There are some El Cheap-os that are not even close but there are also some very high quality production cues as well both American made and imported.

If you buy a production cue then have the ferrule, tip, and weight changed to your liking, is it now a custom (customized) cue?

Also it depends on the custom cue maker as I am sure there are some that can not make a cue with the same quality as a McDermott (American or off shore).

Most custom cue makers will offer the same identical cue to anyone that steps up with the cash. (there are some exceptions)
I do not do that and with rare exception every one of the cues I have ever made are visually different.
So they are not production cues but I cant call them custom unless they are made for a specific person by his request.

So I think you can compare import cues to American custom cues in all ways. I would hope that most of the time the American custom Cue would win out but you just cant lump all import cues as being inferior quality.

Not wanting to sound anti-American cue maker or anything ... just trying to be objective and fair.
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A person making a cue at so and so mass producer is having a bad day they just might let some garbage out the door. Why should they care? Now a CUSTOM cuemaker isn't going to let that happen. This has nothing to do with where the cue is made either.
 
dave sutton said:
i dont care if its made in this country or not. if a company is popping out 1000 cues a year its not for me. there will always be a market for well made cues. like said before you will make your own market by doing top notch work

i would never turn away repair work thats just stupid. like throwing money in the garbage. i wont do the ultra cheapies with the pine shafts or whatever wood it is.
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I hear that kind of thinking about Carolina cues. They due damn fine custom work at a good price. However...I think some people are kind of turned off by their production levels....whether they're custom or not.
 
My last thought on the subject is Pool in this ecomoney is on a slide, also people do not play pool like they did in the 50's, 60's and 70.

People play Veido Game, Wii, X-Box, and that other CRAP. The Boys Clubs, YMCA, and city Park with Pool Table for kid to play on are closed for the most part, or the pool Tables are gone.
 
WilleeCue said:
Dave, dosent that statement kinda contradict itself?
Are you thinking of Ramin wood.
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not really. it was previously said we should consider not taking repairs on cheap imports. depends on what you consider cheap imports. are adams balabushkas cheap imports? they cost 500$ or so but to me they are cheap imports. they dont hold their value at all. you may be lucky to get half your money back out of that cue. also the same cue from a top american maker. like scruggs mottey ect would be 4x that ammount or $2k.

so would i do a tip or ferrule on the adams balabushka yes i did one this week actually. lets put it this way if the pin comes out of the shaft and it aint a burton spain i aint touchin it :D :D :D
 
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