The future of pool

[336Robin]

The value of safeties

Robin:

I agree, but the problem with this approach is that you still have a "caste" system (the ladder you mentioned) on a sport that, itself, doesn't offer the immediate "alternate" gratification with every action. You still have the same problem that the cue sports are a "success/fail" endeavor with every shot; every shot is black or white -- "did the ball go in?". There's no in-between. Other sports have the caste thing built-in -- i.e. in bowling, you don't have to get a strike, as long as you knock down some pins and make a crash sound. Or, in tennis, as long as you connect with the ball and put it over the net, what happens next -- whether your opponent is able to return it or not -- is just gravy. Putting a "caste" system around a success/fail sport of extremes like pool doesn't fix that problem, IMHO.

These days, it takes a special person who's not caught up in the extremist nature of our society to appreciate the beauty that the cue sports can offer.

IMHO, anyway,
-Sean

Sean,
I agree with you on that especially how it applies to new players. Sometime after I took up one pocket I really started valuing a good safety and would shoot more of them adn noticed that it was just as satisfying to accurately estimated angle of cue ball reflection especially when you could stick em right behind something leaving no avenue of escape.

Before the one pocket, I dont believe I enjoyed pool near as much. Except for in Banks. Every time I make a bank shot its just awesome. Coming close lets you know what you need to do which I love because its a riddle.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the first "grain" of the magic bullet. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Every shot/situation in pool must be connected to a number to create emotional attachment.....this is the first "grain" of the magic bullet. 'The Game is the Teacher'

These are all excellent observations. All very true.
Another thing I noticed with the millennials is their attention spans. Look none further than movies or commercials. movies like good, bad, and the ugly...the godfather...Even the hustler, all had static shots-long takes of one angle where you allow the actors and the stories to develop on screen. For the last twenty years, the editing and pacing had gotten faster and faster to today, if any edit is held for over a second in movies it's considered too long. Jump cuts, fast pacing, and quick story arcs have been pushed to where the youth of today had grown up with a short attention span.

The same can be said for commercials and advertisements. That lighting fast editing pace of eighty cuts a minute would have given epileptic seizures back in the fifties and sixties.

Translate that to pool...the pacing is not enough to hold the attention span of today's youth. I see it all the time at the turning stone classic. Free admission. A few twenty somethings walk in and sit down...point and whisper...watch for ten minutes then the Texas hold em tables start calling and they get out of there.

Same when I worked in a pool hall, if twenty somethings and teenagers were on a table for an hour it was too long, until the clubs opened, etc.

Not enough of attention span to watch or learn the game.

 

[sfleinen]

Every shot/situation in pool must be connected to a number to create emotional attachment.....this is the first "grain" of the magic bullet. 'The Game is the Teacher'

You mean the lowest-numbered ball on the table?


-Sean

 

[CJ Wiley]

The number of the ball has no effect on emotional attachment

No.

I mean a percentage, statistic, past situation, future consequence, time, money, etc.

The number of the ball has no effect on emotional attachment unless it's related to one of the those I mentioned.

You mean the lowest-numbered ball on the table?


-Sean

 

[336Robin]

Numbered Shots

You mean the lowest-numbered ball on the table?


-Sean

Sean,
I think in one of Bert Kinisters tapes I saw somewhere he has the shots actually numbered by type.

He was real pumped up about it! lol

 

[sfleinen]

Sean,
I think in one of Bert Kinisters tapes I saw somewhere he has the shots actually numbered by type.

He was real pumped up about it! lol

Ah, I see. I was actually funnin' with CJ, because he advocates "9-ball, 9-ball, 9-ball" as "THE" game for this whole TV thing he keeps talking about (at least in the past), so I couldn't resist an opportunity to playfully elbow him.

-Sean

 

[CJ Wiley]

Six Shooter......"Texas Style"

Actually, I advocate "6 Ball," - another story for a future time. :dance:

Ah, I see. I was actually funnin' with CJ, because he advocates "9-ball, 9-ball, 9-ball" as "THE" game for this whole TV thing he keeps talking about (at least in the past), so I couldn't resist an opportunity to playfully elbow him.

-Sean

 

[macguy]

Actually, I advocate "6 Ball," - another story for a future time. :dance:

Why do you like 6 ball? I like it myself and have actually put on 6 ball tournaments. I usually for women, not to be sexiest but locally with average to good lady players I thought it best. They loved it and were always asking when I would do another tournament.

It's funny, it is usually considered harder to make a ball on the break in 6 ball. One tournament I decided to offer instant money for any 6 on the break or break and run out. I gave away $25.00. Boy was that a mistake, they did it like 15 times in the course of the day. It was fun though because many won my money who didn't finish in the money in the tournament.

The instant money thing can be fun in any tournament. You did it with the million bucks that didn't work out but in a smaller way it can be fun. It is nice when they can win money even if they don't win the tournament. Years ago my wife did like an hour interview with you for a billiard news she was writing for, I think I still have it around here on tape somewhere. You were very nice and interesting with your Martial arts and so on. I seem to remember you talking about your mother also.

 

[CJ Wiley]

6 Ball format that I favor as "the game of the future,"

The only think that's interesting in pool is the "Battle for the First Shot," and after the pro gets shape it's monotonous. Watching 7 or 8 easy shots is like watching 7 or 8 "one foot" putts in golf.....you need to see the completion of the game (or hole) however, it shouldn't dominate the show.

I have an entire 6 Ball format that I favor as "the game of the future," one of these days I'll share it with the "pool world". Right now, it's first things first - TV is the priority.

Why do you like 6 ball? I like it myself and have actually put on 6 ball tournaments. I usually for women, not to be sexiest but locally with average to good lady players I thought it best. They loved it and were always asking when I would do another tournament.

It's funny, it is usually considered harder to make a ball on the break in 6 ball. One tournament I decided to offer instant money for any 6 on the break or break and run out. I gave away $25.00. Boy was that a mistake, they did it like 15 times in the course of the day. It was fun though because many won my money who didn't finish in the money in the tournament.

The instant money thing can be fun in any tournament. You did it with the million bucks that didn't work out but in a smaller way it can be fun. It is nice when they can win money even if they don't win the tournament. Years ago my wife did like an hour interview with you for a billiard news she was writing for, I think I still have it around here on tape somewhere. You were very nice and interesting with your Martial arts and so on. I seem to remember you talking about your mother also.

 

[macguy]

The only think that's interesting in pool is the "Battle for the First Shot," and after the pro gets shape it's monotonous. Watching 7 or 8 easy shots is like watching 7 or 8 "one foot" putts in golf.....you need to see the completion of the game (or hole) however, it shouldn't dominate the show.

I have an entire 6 Ball format that I favor as "the game of the future," one of these days I'll share it with the "pool world". Right now, it's first things first - TV is the priority.

Come on, by all means share it. There are a zillion room owners that are always asking about how to run a successful tournament. Usually one of the problems is time. At the very least, 6 ball will move faster then 9 ball helping with one of their concerns. Just give us an outline.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

The only think that's interesting in pool is the "Battle for the First Shot," and after the pro gets shape it's monotonous. Watching 7 or 8 easy shots is like watching 7 or 8 "one foot" putts in golf.....you need to see the completion of the game (or hole) however, it shouldn't dominate the show.

I have an entire 6 Ball format that I favor as "the game of the future," one of these days I'll share it with the "pool world". Right now, it's first things first - TV is the priority.

As always, I stand intrigued, CJ. Can't wait to see the six ball format in your plans. Sounds like an awesome idea. Would the rack be like the six ball rack used in the old "stars of pocket billiards" late seventies espn special? It was a hexagon shape with five balls racked and a six in the center.

 

[macguy]

As always, I stand intrigued, CJ. Can't wait to see the six ball format in your plans. Sounds like an awesome idea. Would the rack be like the six ball rack used in the old "stars of pocket billiards" late seventies espn special? It was a hexagon shape with five balls racked and a six in the center.

You may be thinking or 7 ball. In 6 ball you just use a regular rack.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

You may be thinking or 7 ball. In 6 ball you just use a regular rack.

You are right. It was seven ball. Funky rack. So using the triangle makes it even better because everyone has one already.

 

[336Robin]

6 ball

The only think that's interesting in pool is the "Battle for the First Shot," and after the pro gets shape it's monotonous. Watching 7 or 8 easy shots is like watching 7 or 8 "one foot" putts in golf.....you need to see the completion of the game (or hole) however, it shouldn't dominate the show.

I have an entire 6 Ball format that I favor as "the game of the future," one of these days I'll share it with the "pool world". Right now, it's first things first - TV is the priority.

6-ball may be a good way to end some games quicker which might buy some time for running different formats that give some more games/matches to players giving more room to run something other that double elimination.

Besides the fact that we could use some television coverage I think it would be nice if we had something in every pool room that would pull people to it and I think that Partners Games would do that if organized right.

If the tournament format itself practically ran itself, if the handicapping or not produced a good time and if it were kept cheap enough that people automatically started thinking man its Friday, and were looking forward to playing it that night.

People want relief from the world of work and if Pool can provide that distraction with socialization, drama and suspense, that would fill a large emotional need that people have and attraction would occur on many levels, a lot of them subconscious.

I see a lot of possibilities with the Partners Format and certainly even 6-ball. How about 8-ball or 9-ball with rotating shots so run outs aren't a given with a hot shot player who is paired up with a weaker player and there isn't any telling if the run out will happen or not?

Friday night events I think have a lot of power for providing the distraction people need from stressful lives. Just my opinion.

 

[macguy]

6-ball may be a good way to end some games quicker which might buy some time for running different formats that give some more games/matches to players giving more room to run something other that double elimination.

Besides the fact that we could use some television coverage I think it would be nice if we had something in every pool room that would pull people to it and I think that Partners Games would do that if organized right.

If the tournament format itself practically ran itself, if the handicapping or not produced a good time and if it were kept cheap enough that people automatically started thinking man its Friday, and were looking forward to playing it that night.

People want relief from the world of work and if Pool can provide that distraction with socialization, drama and suspense, that would fill a large emotional need that people have and attraction would occur on many levels, a lot of them subconscious.

I see a lot of possibilities with the Partners Format and certainly even 6-ball. How about 8-ball or 9-ball with rotating shots so run outs aren't a given with a hot shot player who is paired up with a weaker player and there isn't any telling if the run out will happen or not?

Friday night events I think have a lot of power for providing the distraction people need from stressful lives. Just my opinion.

You talk about partners, if you go backwards starting maybe 1985, every pool room had games like "Pill pool" or Kelly Pool", ring games. We used to play a games called "One shot Harrigan" and "Crazy 8"

These games were a mainstay of many pool rooms much like some pool rooms today that feature Golf. They would have anywhere from 3 to 6 players at any time and would once started go on from opening to closing often with dozens of different players in and out of the games. They were usually cheap and no one could really get hurt. They also had an element of luck that attracted all speeds of players.

Strangers would wander in and get in the games and before you know it they knew everybody and were every night regulars. There was a nice social aspect to it far beyond the fact that we were gambling.
I think today when a strangers by themselves or with a friend comes in a pool room, for the most part they come and go and remain strangers. That I think is a major difference.

The old pool rooms you felt welcome and part of a club so to speak. Today you are often made to feel like little more then a dollar sign. Spend your money and get the F out. I always like to tell this story. My wife and I stopped in a pool room in the day time. There was no one playing. I was looking to play and asked the person behind the counter if it got busy at night and are there any players around.

She said I would have to come back she didn't know anything about what goes no at night. So we left and as we were leaving over the door was a neatly painted sign. It said,

"If you have nothing to do, don't do it here".

Is there any wonder this place had no business. They actually tell you they have no interest in you, just your money.

 

[336Robin]

Culture of Pool

You talk about partners, if you go backwards starting maybe 1985, every pool room had games like "Pill pool" or Kelly Pool", ring games. We used to play a games called "One shot Harrigan" and "Crazy 8"

These games were a mainstay of many pool rooms much like some pool rooms today that feature Golf. They would have anywhere from 3 to 6 players at any time and would once started go on from opening to closing often with dozens of different players in and out of the games. They were usually cheap and no one could really get hurt. They also had an element of luck that attracted all speeds of players.

Strangers would wander in and get in the games and before you know it they knew everybody and were every night regulars. There was a nice social aspect to it far beyond the fact that we were gambling.
I think today when a strangers by themselves or with a friend comes in a pool room, for the most part they come and go and remain strangers. That I think is a major difference.

The old pool rooms you felt welcome and part of a club so to speak. Today you are often made to feel like little more then a dollar sign. Spend your money and get the F out. I always like to tell this story. My wife and I stopped in a pool room in the day time. There was no one playing. I was looking to play and asked the person behind the counter if it got busy at night and are there any players around.

She said I would have to come back she didn't know anything about what goes no at night. So we left and as we were leaving over the door was a neatly painted sign. It said,

"If you have nothing to do, don't do it here".

Is there any wonder this place had no business. They actually tell you they have no interest in you, just your money.

Macguy,
I read your post and actually felt like I was back in one of those old pool rooms. I know one today that opens at 7am and it busy with nightshift workers who come in. I used to work night shift at a factory years ago and we used to go to a place and drink beer and eat cheeseburgers after work but it was a bar with quarter tables and we played for beer, dollars and food. Mostly we were playing King of the Hill quarter table 8-ball and it was a lot of fun. We did it every single Friday morning after shift and sometimes during the week if someone wanted to go....we all went.

Certainly rents went up, video games came about, more and more things became a part of the distractions that pull us away from a game that you have to practice to in order to learn what to do but....man those were the days.

Its like you said....small games that were cheap and kept that way went on continually among people that wanted entertainment and no one really got hurt.

I think what is missing is the softer side of the pool culture. The side that is accepting of everyone and the side where the old guys pass the culture onto the next generation.

In fact I see that in certain segments of our society. I saw a culture in my grandfathers generation and in a few of my friends and it seems to be more prevalent in houses where there are better jobs and money.

When the money starting leaving, the culture started leaving not only in the pool room but in our own households.

Someone needs to write a book about how to get it back and apply it to modern times because I miss the culture that left when the work left the United States.

This

 

[macguy]

Macguy,
I read your post and actually felt like I was back in one of those old pool rooms. I know one today that opens at 7am and it busy with nightshift workers who come in. I used to work night shift at a factory years ago and we used to go to a place and drink beer and eat cheeseburgers after work but it was a bar with quarter tables and we played for beer, dollars and food. Mostly we were playing King of the Hill quarter table 8-ball and it was a lot of fun. We did it every single Friday morning after shift and sometimes during the week if someone wanted to go....we all went.

Certainly rents went up, video games came about, more and more things became a part of the distractions that pull us away from a game that you have to practice to in order to learn what to do but....man those were the days.

Its like you said....small games that were cheap and kept that way went on continually among people that wanted entertainment and no one really got hurt.

I think what is missing is the softer side of the pool culture. The side that is accepting of everyone and the side where the old guys pass the culture onto the next generation.

In fact I see that in certain segments of our society. I saw a culture in my grandfathers generation and in a few of my friends and it seems to be more prevalent in houses where there are better jobs and money.

When the money starting leaving, the culture started leaving not only in the pool room but in our own households.

Someone needs to write a book about how to get it back and apply it to modern times because I miss the culture that left when the work left the United States.

This

I made one of my rare visits to a pool room last Tuesday around 6 pm. I was in the area and just stopped in. Here is the interesting observation that comes to mind because of what we are talking about here. There is at least six guys that are at the bar that play. (This is a pool room by the way 12 GC tables) none of them are playing not even by themselves. Their cue cases are leaning against the bar waiting but they don't make a move to play.

This is not some isolated incident, this is what I see every time I go anywhere. Pool players who don't want to play pool. Getting back to my other post, 30 years ago there would be games going on and players waiting for someone to drop out so they could get in. You may have someone shooting a proposition or spinning the cue ball. Point is, you could not get the players away from the tables they all wanted to play, that's why they came in. Maybe I am not even sure what my point is, maybe just times and people are different.

 

[336Robin]

They are different--Economically

I made one of my rare visits to a pool room last Tuesday around 6 pm. I was in the area and just stopped in. Here is the interesting observation that comes to mind because of what we are talking about here. There is at least six guys that are at the bar that play. (This is a pool room by the way 12 GC tables) none of them are playing not even by themselves. Their cue cases are leaning against the bar waiting but they don't make a move to play.

This is not some isolated incident, this is what I see every time I go anywhere. Pool players who don't want to play pool. Getting back to my other post, 30 years ago there would be games going on and players waiting for someone to drop out so they could get in. You may have someone shooting a proposition or spinning the cue ball. Point is, you could not get the players away from the tables they all wanted to play, that's why they came in. Maybe I am not even sure what my point is, maybe just times and people are different.

I think they are different...economically. Perhaps the price per hour isn't so different when you view the wages but the opportunity for making the wages is definitely different.

You see pool players sitting on the sidelines that likely has to do with the price of playing all day long and what they are earning.

I know a place right now that you can play all day for 5 to 6 dollars but the owners really don't do much to stimulate business so even at that rate there isn't much going on until night time.

I know where there is another place where the tables are aroud $3 and hour and the beer is reasonable and people understand they are going to drop $ 10 to $15 to have good time for the evening and they are building up a clientele.

I know another place that is right around $5 and hour and there are people in it at times but its not regular enough to be able to find a game anytime you walk in.

I think its economics and the fact that when things are down, well they are down.

The things I see missing are reasonable rates for the economic conditions of the place, efforts on the owners part to market to new people and have a plan in place once they get there to keep them and no incentives aimed at people who have been with you for a long time to reduce their rates so they will come play more and be there when other new ones walk in.

Ive seen pool so scarce in the one that is around $5 and hour that they might as well offer free pool if they order a drink because no one is playing. Pool could easily become like Darts if left unattended.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Anything that disappears off major TV networks would suffer the same fate.

The "out of sight, out of mind" phenomenon is powerful indeed.

Anything that disappears off major TV networks would suffer the same fate.....it isn't just "TV," it far deeper than that.....TV is connected to the universal subconscious....and many people are under too much "mental bondage" to even real eyes it.....or even realize it for that matter. 'The Game is the Teacher'

I made one of my rare visits to a pool room last Tuesday around 6 pm. I was in the area and just stopped in. Here is the interesting observation that comes to mind because of what we are talking about here. There is at least six guys that are at the bar that play. (This is a pool room by the way 12 GC tables) none of them are playing not even by themselves. Their cue cases are leaning against the bar waiting but they don't make a move to play.

This is not some isolated incident, this is what I see every time I go anywhere. Pool players who don't want to play pool. Getting back to my other post, 30 years ago there would be games going on and players waiting for someone to drop out so they could get in. You may have someone shooting a proposition or spinning the cue ball. Point is, you could not get the players away from the tables they all wanted to play, that's why they came in. Maybe I am not even sure what my point is, maybe just times and people are different.

 

[Mr. Bond]

Pool on TV can indeed be done, like I said, if its done right. I would be careful though of doing the industry harm in the process. We all drink from the same stream, so if someone upstream starts washing their laundry, we're all drinking dirt with dinner.

Freddy da Beard wrote the script on "pool tv". I have a copy, you should read it.
It is done with class and entertainment value, it is hustler but it is also mainstream television with star power.

Charles Ursitti, the gentleman who brought the world Fats vs Mosconi on television, is still alive and well. You want good pool on TV? Call Charles.