The good guys don't always finish last...

D

Deno J. Andrews

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just wanted to drop in to make mention that in our first qualification tournament at the Derby City Classic, George Breedlove called a foul on himself (while Hill-Hill) against Alex Pagulayan. Pagulayan ran out with ball in hand and went on to win a Tour Card. Breedlove did not win his tour card there...instead, George played in the next three events and is now on the IPT. I remember all the groaning from the players at the Derby when I mentioned that it was expected that they call fouls on themselves. Breedlove is an example of integrity, and while I am impartial about who wins tour cards, I am happy to see that integrity was rewarded.

Deno Andrews
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
Just wanted to drop in to make mention that in our first qualification tournament at the Derby City Classic, George Breedlove called a foul on himself (while Hill-Hill) against Alex Pagulayan. Pagulayan ran out with ball in hand and went on to win a Tour Card. Breedlove did not win his tour card there...instead, George played in the next three events and is now on the IPT. I remember all the groaning from the players at the Derby when I mentioned that it was expected that they call fouls on themselves. Breedlove is an example of integrity, and while I am impartial about who wins tour cards, I am happy to see that integrity was rewarded.

Deno Andrews
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Well said Deno. :)

I agree and I think most on here will agree. Kudos to George for his honesty and for coming back & winning his tour card.
 
I totally agree and that is why I have been pulling so hard for him. When I started a thread where I said I had found new respect for George, I was criticized for admiring someone for doing the right thing. The right thing is what SHOULD be done, but so many players choose not to take the high road and I wanted to commend him for doing something others in his place might not have done. I am so glad he made it. Like I stated in another thread - class, convictions, skill, and determination - those are all the right qualities for a champion.
 
George is a friend of mine and I'm delighted to see him earn a card, but I think it's time to get over this nonsense.

A player that doesn't call fouls on him/herself is undeserving of being a pool professional. The fact that there are those who disgrace the pro game by failing to live up to this standard does not make those who play by the rules special. I'd be willing to bet that every professional pool player that has ever played the game has called fouls on him/herself in competition.

The legendary golfer Bobby Jones was once praised for calling a penalty shot on himself. His answer: "That's like praising me for not robbing a bank," then adding "it's the only way I know how to play the game."

So, if we're going to praise George for his integrity in playing pool by the rules, at very least we should praise him for not robbing any banks.

The addiiton of George to the IPT is great news for pool because he's a great player and a quality guy, not because he competes at a higher level of integrity than his fellow pros. To single out a player as unique for playing by the rules is to discredit the integrty of most pool professionals, and, as noted, I will not subscribe to such nonsense.

The thread title says "the good guys don't always finish last." I'd be willing to bet that those who failed to succeed in the qualiifers, including those who came in last, are good gutys just like George.
 
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sjm said:
George is a friend of mine and I'm delighted to see him earn a card, but I think it's time to get over this nonsense.

A player that doesn't call fouls on him/herself is undeserving of being a pool professional. The fact that there are those who disgrace the pro game by failing to live up to this standard does not make those who play by the rules special. I'd be willing to bet that every professional pool player that has ever played the game has called fouls on him/herself in competition.

The legendary golfer Bobby Jones was once praised for calling a penalty shot on himself. His answer: "That's like praising me for not robbing a bank," then adding "it's the only way I know how to play the game."

So, if we're going to praise George for his integrity in playing pool by the rules, at very least we should praise him for not robbing any banks.

The addiiton of George to the IPT is great news for pool because he's a great player and a quality guy, not because he competes at a higher level of integrity than his fellow pros. To single out a player as unique for playing by the rules is to discredit the integrty of most pool professionals, and, as noted, I will not subscribe to such nonsense.

The thread title says "the good guys don't always finish last." I'd be willing to bet that those who failed to succeed in the qualiifers, including those who came in last, are good gutys just like George.
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Unfortunately SJM pool has MANY MANY guys that don't call fouls of themselves, this stands out like a sore thumb if you come from a background like snooker or 3 cushion like Deno does where a certain etiquette has mostly been the norm. In fact the players that do "cheat" whether it be racking, baracking, or NEVER calling fouls on themselves are well known within the game.

Even though I would be prepared to bet that you would struggle to find a snooker player that doesn't call fouls on themselves on the occassions when one has done it in high profile matches or critical games they are still singled out for praise. IMO this is a good thing and they deserve all the praise and publicity they get because it sends out the right message to the young kids who are watching and hopefully emulating the stars of today. I still cringe when I think about what Earl did on TV and the number of kids that where probably watching!
 
TheOne said:
....when one has done it in high profile matches or critical games they are still singled out for praise. IMO this is a good thing and they deserve all the praise and publicity they get because it sends out the right message
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TheOne,
I like your idea. Positive reinforcement (even for behavior that should be standard) is a good step toward developing the type of sportsmanship we would like to see.

I think George would more agree with SJM. When asked about the incident, he responded that it "was no big deal, I'm sure Alex probably saw it anyway."

I will say that I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the idea of all-ball fouls in any pool game (as was the case in this incident). It really adds to the tension and demands on the players. If you aren't playing straight pool with all-ball fouls, then you aren't really playing straight pool.
 
Unfortunately a lot of the good guys usually don't finish first or even in the money. Boyes and Saez are prime examples.

Will the "call fouls on yourself rule" that the IPT used in the qualifiers also apply when the IPT uses a ref?

Jake
 
sjm said:
George is a friend of mine and I'm delighted to see him earn a card, but I think it's time to get over this nonsense.

A player that doesn't call fouls on him/herself is undeserving of being a pool professional. The fact that there are those who disgrace the pro game by failing to live up to this standard does not make those who play by the rules special. I'd be willing to bet that every professional pool player that has ever played the game has called fouls on him/herself in competition.

The legendary golfer Bobby Jones was once praised for calling a penalty shot on himself. His answer: "That's like praising me for not robbing a bank," then adding "it's the only way I know how to play the game."

So, if we're going to praise George for his integrity in playing pool by the rules, at very least we should praise him for not robbing any banks.

The addiiton of George to the IPT is great news for pool because he's a great player and a quality guy, not because he competes at a higher level of integrity than his fellow pros. To single out a player as unique for playing by the rules is to discredit the integrty of most pool professionals, and, as noted, I will not subscribe to such nonsense.

The thread title says "the good guys don't always finish last." I'd be willing to bet that those who failed to succeed in the qualiifers, including those who came in last, are good gutys just like George.
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SJM, I agree with your premise and understand what you are trying to convey. Like I also said in the other thread, it is not like robbing a bank (which would get a lot of notice), but more like finding a wallet with cash on the sidewalk. What would most people do? Would they turn it in if they thought no one was going to catch them? Or if they were able to rationalize their decision as having little to no impact on the other person involved?

Like giving rep points, I am in the habit of rewarding something I agree with, and giving kudos to someone who does the right thing in the face of life or career-altering circumstances, IMHO, was my way of acknowledging that act, with the hope that others who might not have taken the high road will recognize the fact that a person's character should define their game perhaps more than their skill. And that they can be recognized just as much for being a person with integrity (yes, we all should be!), as one who always books a winner.

At the end of the day, "nice guys may finish last", but they finish with the ability to face themselves in the mirror.

As I also stated, positive reinforcement comes naturally from having children and always telling them how well they handled themselves. :p
 
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rackmsuckr said:
SJM, I agree with your premise and understand what you are trying to convey. Like I also said in the other thread, it is not like robbing a bank (which would get a lot of notice), but more like finding a wallet with cash on the sidewalk. What would most people do? Would they turn it in if they thought no one was going to catch them? Or if they were able to rationalize their decision as having little to no impact on the other person involved?

Like giving rep points, I am in the habit of rewarding something I agree with, and giving kudos to someone who does the right thing in the face of life or career-altering circumstances, IMHO, was my way of acknowledging that act, with the hope that others who might not have taken the high road will recognize the fact that a person's character should define their game perhaps more than their skill. And that they can be recognized just as much for being a person with integrity (yes, we all should be!), as one who always books a winner.

At the end of the day, "nice guys may finish last", but they finish with the ability to face themselves in the mirror.

As I also stated, positive reinforcement comes naturally from having children and always telling them how well they handled themselves. :p
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Well, Linda, I guess I'm AZB's version of Don Quixote at times, a firm, if occasionally stubborn, believer that the highest ideals are within our grasp. It's always my choice to embrace the attainability of those ideals, even where history tells me it might just be a pipe dream.
 
I think this is one of the best threads I've read...The original post and each subsequent response was well thought out! Very well stated...
 
Terry Ardeno said:
I think this is one of the best threads I've read...The original post and each subsequent response was well thought out! Very well stated...
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That is all you need, is 50 good looking guys like George who can play who can handle their selves in public or with the media right, then pool is really on its way home.
 
sjm said:
Well, Linda, I guess I'm AZB's version of Don Quixote at times, a firm, if occasionally stubborn, believer that the highest ideals are within our grasp. It's always my choice to embrace the attainability of those ideals, even where history tells me it might just be a pipe dream.
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And I guess I am AZB's version of Pollyanna, always trying to spread that sunshine around, lol. :p

Actually, maybe it is the other way around...you see the glass as half full and I see the glass as tipped over, spilled, leaving rings on the coffee table. :rolleyes:

It is easy to show ideals and integrity when things are going well. It is in the face of adversity or temptation that a person's true character shows itself; when no one need ever know except the person facing the challenge. All of us have it within ourselves to hold to our moral obligations and fiber, I agree. Are you then surprised by the many that don't? I am not, as it is human nature to take the easy or most advantageous way out. The ones who do hold fast are of worthy note, IMHO.
 
Whew !

Boy oh boy, I just couldn't believe that everyone was being so polite to Deno. Not one shot fired across his bow. I was waiting for someone to ask him some tough questions. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven,where everything was beautiful and peaceful. I read the entire thread a second time. I decided to call up a former wife and be complimentary.
THEN, I saw that these posts were 8 months old, so I screamed Yeehaaaaaaaaaa ! and scared the crap out of a sleeping wife and cat. I'm going to get a glass of Jack Daniels and a beer chaser and relax once again..
Doug
( I guess the joke was on me )
 
jasper said:
Just wanted to bring a positive thread to the front.
I hope that KT called his own foul and fixes it.
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Looks like your seeing the light.....thought you had potential:)


OFF TOPIC----DENO, drop in and visit with us:cool:

A lot has happened lately....you got some splainin to do:cool:
 
Too bad George Breedlove wasn't running the IPT.....

Players should elect him as president of the new players association.
 
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