The Greatest Greatest

Marvel

Marvel - The Yogi Bear
Silver Member
You may want to check your facts. GSP has 9 title defenses, the same as DJ. One more, and DJ ties Silva. Don't know which internet site you get your "facts" from, but you might want to choose a different one. And DJ is STILL the active champion. That at least puts him on par with GSP.



Heh, I actually said GSP has one more, IF you count the unification. And even if you don't, and he ties DJ, Silva still has one more and your argument where you urged me to compare them, wouldn't make any sense, unless you wished me to "tie" them. And if you wish me to "tie" them in accordance to the title defenses, it still wouldn't make DJ more valid for GOAT, and I already said, that I would have mentioned him next.

Capisci?
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Silver Member
To me Efren is different that all his peers, past and present in ANY game/sport/competition....he's a ''one of a kind''. I think there is no other athlete from any sport that has what he has, and has had. Many don't know how lucky we are to have such a special person alive during our life. Many used to talk about the Knoxville Bear and his banking abilities, but he also had that innate ability to learn any game quickly, do it differently than anyone else, get away with it and beat his peers in a game they were better at, when he learned it. Players from his generation never played position in 14.1 for a bank shot to continue there inning. He didn't think that way.

Really, he's the best athlete to ever live? There are folks that won gold medals in 3, 4 and even 5 Olympics, competing against the BEST in the entire world.

I mean, how do you play 2 sports, Baseball and Football, professionally, and be an All-Star in both (only happened this one time) Shooting variants of different pool games is one thing, but playing 2 of the most demanding sports on the planet at the same time and excelling at them both? Not many persons on the planet can do that, actually, nobody else has done it that I recall.

And this does not even make BO the GOAT, just using him as a reference as there are just too many greats to list. But Efren is not in the conversation unless it's just strickly dealing in a pool environment, and then you still have Mosconi, Stickland and a few others to argue over ;)
 

Shawn Armstrong

Abooboo No Neck
Silver Member
Heh, I actually said GSP has one more, IF you count the unification. And even if you don't, and he ties DJ, Silva still has one more and your argument where you urged me to compare them, wouldn't make any sense, unless you wished me to "tie" them. And if you wish me to "tie" them in accordance to the title defenses, it still wouldn't make DJ more valid for GOAT, and I already said, that I would have mentioned him next.

Capisci?

You're the one that doesn't get it. You spouted off about the greatness of JJ, GSP and AS. I said you were shortsighted in not mentioned DJ. You then come up with absurdities like "unification fights", and other crap.

DJ is only below Silva. He's tied with GSP. He's past JJ. And he's the only active champ. So...unless you'd like me to draw you a picture, I can't make it any more clear to you. I said it was embarrassing that you brought up GOATs in MMA, and didn't mention the reigning P4P king of MMA.

I put Fedor above all. The only black mark on him will be that he never competed in the UFC, so we never saw him against the elite heavyweights. I have no doubt he would have succeeded. He was just that good.

I just found your analysis lacking, and then your trying to justify not having DJ's name amongst the greats, somewhat short sighted.

Comprends?
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
There's a saying in the pool world...
"Never gamble with a player named after a state...or a city."

How'd y'all like to compete with a man who had a city named after him? :eek:

IMG_3228.JPG
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Really, he's the best athlete to ever live? There are folks that won gold medals in 3, 4 and even 5 Olympics, competing against the BEST in the entire world.

I mean, how do you play 2 sports, Baseball and Football, professionally, and be an All-Star in both (only happened this one time) Shooting variants of different pool games is one thing, but playing 2 of the most demanding sports on the planet at the same time and excelling at them both? Not many persons on the planet can do that, actually, nobody else has done it that I recall.

And this does not even make BO the GOAT, just using him as a reference as there are just too many greats to list. But Efren is not in the conversation unless it's just strickly dealing in a pool environment, and then you still have Mosconi, Stickland and a few others to argue over ;)


Ok then Eric Heiden. Theeeeeeeeee only Olympic speed skater to EVER win the shorts, the medium and the long distance races combined. Bolt can't do that, and that has NEVER been done before by any athlete that I know of in any sport. Mark Spitz tho comes too mind. Takes a different type of body to win different disciplines. That's why the Kenyan marathon runners are the greatest in long distance, but not the short distances. JMHO
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Super Bowl this weekend....

Here ya go, still think he's the best ever. He was the largest born male in IL 14lbs. I told that to a Jamaican man once....first words out of his mouth, did he stand up right away ?LMAO. What a great way to perceive a large newborn. :thumbup:
 

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Marvel

Marvel - The Yogi Bear
Silver Member
You're the one that doesn't get it. You spouted off about the greatness of JJ, GSP and AS. I said you were shortsighted in not mentioned DJ. You then come up with absurdities like "unification fights", and other crap.

DJ is only below Silva. He's tied with GSP. He's past JJ. And he's the only active champ. So...unless you'd like me to draw you a picture, I can't make it any more clear to you. I said it was embarrassing that you brought up GOATs in MMA, and didn't mention the reigning P4P king of MMA.

I put Fedor above all. The only black mark on him will be that he never competed in the UFC, so we never saw him against the elite heavyweights. I have no doubt he would have succeeded. He was just that good.

I just found your analysis lacking, and then your trying to justify not having DJ's name amongst the greats, somewhat short sighted.

Comprends?



Heh, sir, please focus. Read my original message about MMA once more with clear mind and try to digest what it says.

I never spouted about JJ. I answered to a guy, who spouted about JJ.

I did say I like him, but I continued he's hardly Top 5 GOAT.

I never spouted AS nor GSP either. I said that experts have ranked them highest. I did admit that those articles are few years old. I also said I would have mentioned DJ next. I admitted, that maybe I could have mentioned him while I mentioned Conor from the actives. I never mentioned any others.

I did spout Fedor.

I said P4P king is different than GOAT.

And now you're agreeing, that Fedor is above all, Silva is above DJ, and GSP ties DJ.

So please, tell me where did I disagree on that? If JJ is Top 5-6, then those four fit inside the remaining Top spots, and now you're telling me you agree in the order, too.

Yes, I still do think the weight class and the pool of opponents matters. I do watch Conor rather than DJ.

Ps: If DJ is so great, why don't he meet Conor in a 145p super fight? He wouldn't be any smaller than Fedor was compared to many of his opponents ;)
 
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PoppaSaun

Banned
According to the experts, Federer is the best ever, and I'm saying this as a 60/40 Rafa fan. And the experts have been saying this for long, though Rafa's ability to break his record has been matter of interest. The final in Melbourne was a big factor in this issue, too.

Rafa certainly is a "spike in the flesh" for Federer, but mostly because of the clay expertise and the hard time he gave on that – which also build the record how it is. If Rafa will win four or more majors still, and Federer none, the things will change, but also style-wise the experts prefer Roger's skill level to be higher.

Djokovic might have something to say into this, too, but he hasn't been as strong recently as he should be to build it.

I can't believe y'all are arguing about which man is better at hugging other men.
 

Shawn Armstrong

Abooboo No Neck
Silver Member
Heh, sir, please focus. Read my original message about MMA once more with clear mind and try to digest what it says.

I never spouted about JJ. I answered to a guy, who spouted about JJ.

I did say I like him, but I continued he's hardly Top 5 GOAT.

I never spouted AS nor GSP either. I said that experts have ranked them highest. I did admit that those articles are few years old. I also said I would have mentioned DJ next. I admitted, that maybe I could have mentioned him while I mentioned Conor from the actives. I never mentioned any others.

I did spout Fedor.

I said P4P king is different than GOAT.

And now you're agreeing, that Fedor is above all, Silva is above DJ, and GSP ties DJ.

So please, tell me where did I disagree on that? If JJ is Top 5-6, then those four fit inside the remaining Top spots, and now you're telling me you agree in the order, too.

Yes, I still do think the weight class and the pool of opponents matters. I do watch Conor rather than DJ.

Ps: If DJ is so great, why don't he meet Conor in a 145p super fight? He wouldn't be any smaller than Fedor was compared to many of his opponents ;)

Conor can't even make 145 anymore. It's why he vacated the featherweight belt. Or did you not know that?

Let's see Conor defend his belt ONCE before we mention him as an actual champion. He has yet to actually defend any belt he's won.
 

Baron

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't believe y'all are arguing about which man is better at hugging other men.
Yeah you're right, it's way dumber than arguing about who's better at poking at a ball with a stick.

Anyways, I'm the guy that started this off with Jones. I believe he could be the all time great in the sport because when he first started in MMA the LHW division was full of buzzsaws and he walked through them and made them look like they all sucked. Rashad, Glover, Bader, DC, Shogun, and the list goes on. His only real challenge was Gustafsson. His first fight in the UFC was like 9 months after he had started training and he had already built up a 6-0 record. And unlike every other name in the conversation, he has never ever (legitimately) lost.

Of course DJ is fantastic and should be in the conversation. I don't see him losing to anyone until he retires, at which point he very well may be considered the GOAT. My issue is that DJ is not fighting guys with crazy knockout power, whereas Jones pretty much always is. Lots of danger there.

And I agree on Conor not belonging in this conversation. I think he gets smoked by most of the LW top 10.
 

jwh1942

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If this is during an era, how about two names forever together? Both the only ones in history to have 50 rebounds in a game, one had 30 points and 20 rebounds each game all through his career and averaged more than 40 and 50 points in a season........also the only 100 point game in history. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain hands down total domination. Two amazing people for sure. One funny "fact".....................
20,000 women, come on now Wilt.
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Silver Member
Ok then Eric Heiden. Theeeeeeeeee only Olympic speed skater to EVER win the shorts, the medium and the long distance races combined. Bolt can't do that, and that has NEVER been done before by any athlete that I know of in any sport. Mark Spitz tho comes too mind. Takes a different type of body to win different disciplines. That's why the Kenyan marathon runners are the greatest in long distance, but not the short distances. JMHO

I'd gladly put them both on the list :thumbup:
 

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Speaking of Eric Heiden. I had the opportunity to go on a couple training rides with Eric when he was a student at Stanford back in the early 80's. He was into bike racing and road for 7-Eleven for a number of years. At the time he was renting a small home off Old La Honda Rd outside of Portola Valley. He had a climbing style unlike anyone I ever saw. He'd put it into a big chain and grind his way up the Santa Cruz Mtns like an animal! We were chatting about his training once and he told me he could duck walk for two miles! Holy Mutha of God!!! His upper thighs were bigger than my waist. Great guy, low key, easy to talk to, I really admired him.
 

Marvel

Marvel - The Yogi Bear
Silver Member
Yeah you're right, it's way dumber than arguing about who's better at poking at a ball with a stick.

Anyways, I'm the guy that started this off with Jones. I believe he could be the all time great in the sport because when he first started in MMA the LHW division was full of buzzsaws and he walked through them and made them look like they all sucked. Rashad, Glover, Bader, DC, Shogun, and the list goes on. His only real challenge was Gustafsson. His first fight in the UFC was like 9 months after he had started training and he had already built up a 6-0 record. And unlike every other name in the conversation, he has never ever (legitimately) lost.

Of course DJ is fantastic and should be in the conversation. I don't see him losing to anyone until he retires, at which point he very well may be considered the GOAT. My issue is that DJ is not fighting guys with crazy knockout power, whereas Jones pretty much always is. Lots of danger there.

And I agree on Conor not belonging in this conversation. I think he gets smoked by most of the LW top 10.



But Aldo would have belonged into this conversation, he was undefeated for ten years until Conor knocked him out in 13 seconds.

He's not Top GOAT, but if he continues doing what he does, he may be, and I wouldn't say it's any less likely than JJ. JJ has civil problems, he failed doping test, but he might still have ten more years to go. So does Conor, but he has achieved what he had set on his goals, and now when he gets a child he might even quit. You never know what will happen in the future. The prediction of getting smoked by most of the top 10 is bit funny, as he just completely dominated the defending champion and made him look like a complete amateur.

But what you do know, is that Fedor was unbeatable from the start for more than 10 years and all together 33 fights; and the cut from the illegal elbow is way less a loss than the "loss" of JJ.

DJ is great, but in a tiny way. Size does matter, as does the pool of opponents facing. JJ could be GOAT if he went to HW, dominated that and started not to fail in his life. I do wish DJ and JJ both only good. Conor is interesting, and a character, but nowhere near the character of Fedor, who is exceptional in his humility and greatness in so many ways.
 
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Lonestar_jim

Two & Out
Silver Member
There's a saying in the pool world...
"Never gamble with a player named after a state...or a city."

How'd y'all like to compete with a man who had a city named after him? :eek:

View attachment 448551
Yes I mentioned Rockne earlier in response to Island Drive, but I think I meant to say Thorpe. I read some stuff about him, unbelievable stuff. Probably Chuck Norris dad or something 😂
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Musashi

Japanese swordsman born 1584.

A kendo instructor told me that the 17th century French swordsmen were on a par with the
Samarai....but Musashi towered over them all.

He retired and became a teacher....The Book of Five Ring is based on his teachings.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Babe Ruth by far the best baseball player of all time

Ted Williams who was Mickey Mantle's idol and no average hitter himself
pronounced the Babe the best by far

Some argument could be made for him being the greatest pitcher of all time

some others have Ruthian years or dominate some minor sport
for a while

Gorgeous George was such a great showman that Ali patterned his
bad guy image that later became Earl's

Hey Dean, I'll give you that Ruth was the greatest showman and saved baseball. I think saying he was the greatest player by far is debatable, though. I know you are going to laugh, but Joe DiMaggio doesn't get the recognition among today's generation (and apparently even from some old farts :D) that he deserves. As I'm sure you know, DiMaggio was the most famous person in the US for a time, and for good reason.

Just for background, read this post if you haven't already:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5428257&postcount=45

The purpose of my post today is to provide you some quotes from my father's book that you might find interesting:

Ted Williams: I never, ever, compared myself to him. I thought there never was a greater player in the history of baseball. For me to be mentioned in the same breath, boy, I always felt like I was two steps below him. I thought I could hit with anybody, but he was in my opinion as good as any that ever played this game.

Mickey Mantle: Heroes are people who are all good with no bad in them. That's the way I always saw Joe DiMaggio. As far as I am concerned, Joe DiMaggio is probably the greatest all-around baseball player that ever lived.

Another Mickey Mantle: Joe D was the greatest ball player I ever saw. His last year, my first, I saw him hit at least 25 balls to left field that would have been homers in any other ball park except Yankee Stadium. I saw him hit four balls to the deepest part of left-center field in one game against Boston, and only one wasn't caught. And he did that and he was only fifty percent of what he used to be. He would have hit eight hundred homers if it weren't for those crazy outfield dimensions at Yankee Stadium.

Lou Gehrig: DiMaggio is the greatest instinctive ball player I ever saw. [This, from a man who played for ten years with Babe Ruth.]

and finally,

Connie Mack:, legendary manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates and Philadelphia Athletics for 53 years until his retirement at age 87, managed in a business suit, won 5 World Series and holds the mark for most wins by a manager (3,731). One of the most highly respected and astute judges of baseball talent ever, Mr. Mack (as everyone called him) piloted the Athletics against the Yankees throughout DiMaggio's entire career. Consequently, he had plenty of time to observe him under all conditions. Here are two of his quotes: "An outfield composed of Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker and Babe Ruth, even with Ruth, lacks the combined power of Joe DiMaggio, Stan Musial and Ted Williams" and "Joe DiMaggio is the best player that ever lived."

My father, who passed in April, was friends with Father Costa from West Point, a huge Babe Ruth fan and historian. Father Costa was kind enough to invite my father to give talks about DiMaggio to his math class each year. You might enjoy his Ruth website:

http://www.thetruebaberuth.com/index.html
 
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