The HAMB system of aiming
- Thread starter Neil
- Start date
I believe some systems work for some players, up to a point. IMO if you can't hit the exact spot on the OB you want or can't imagine where that spot is, then nothing is going to help you. Whith all systems you need to adjust certain shots for throw=feel. So feel is always going to be needed. JMO and I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Johnnyt
I think we need to move beyond aiming mechanics and focus on output. Pool is OUTCOME based. Meaning, the ONLY thing that MATTERS is if you make the ball, run out, and win the game. Saying one system is better than the other is ridiculous because we all see differently (i.e. sfleinen says he "sees" the ghost ball - so why use anything else?). For me, I can't use ghost ball and only pivot--- and I make balls in a decent fashion.
Bashing CTE when it helps people make balls better than they possibly could before they learned it makes zero sense. CTEers bashing ghost-ballers for doing things the hard way when in fact the ghost-ballers/feel players do everything sub-consciously (and well) makes zero sense.
That HAMB thing is totally unproven and speculation and most importantly--- who cares. How many balls hit is just a statistic. Show me a guy/gal who plays lights out after a million balls and I'll show you someone who plays just as well with a small % of balls-hit. It's all about HOW WELL you play, not how you play.
The same guys who knock the geometry of CTE prob can't run out ANY better than someone who uses CTE and vice versa. The reason is that we all have a certain level of ability that is possible. We were born with part of that level and our knowledge helps us improve on that.
So, for every instructor that knocks CTE - I can keep up with them shot-making and I just "pivot the ball in." Conversely, someone who doesn't use CTE can prob light me up playing because they're just more talented than me (and there's little I can do about it).
So, to knock CTE is like knocking a hammer in a toolbox. For some people, it's the key to achieving their potential. For others - not. Let's stop dogging methods that players feel are key.
Dave
Neil, I'm pretty sure you can find tons of research in psychology and neuroscience that show that the human (and animal) nervous system can tune fine-motor control by repeating certain motions over and over again in a goal-oriented manner. The visual system is part of this whole control system. The requirement is that this repetition is made in a controlled and goal-oriented manner. That, incidentally, is the reason that most players are stuck in their current skill level. (Banging balls gets you only so far.)
Well said, Dave.
Funny thing about all the different aiming systems....they are all designed to get the cue ball to end up in exactly the same place....making contact on the opposite side of the object ball from the direction you want the object ball to move.
How we get it there is up to us...but we all want to get it to the same place.
Steve
How we get it there is up to us...but we all want to get it to the same place.
Steve
I just got out of Randy Gs Pool School here in the DFW area. I learned a ton to say the least. I was actually going to post something about it in a week or so after I got rid of some more of my bad habits...
Anyway, I think all the SPF instructors teach the SAM aiming system, which for me is very simple to learn and simple really works for me. If I start thinking about aiming when I am aiming I can't make anything.
I played years ago and started up again less than a year ago. Thought I would get some instruction this time. Makes a huge difference.
FWIW
Mike
Anyway, I think all the SPF instructors teach the SAM aiming system, which for me is very simple to learn and simple really works for me. If I start thinking about aiming when I am aiming I can't make anything.
I played years ago and started up again less than a year ago. Thought I would get some instruction this time. Makes a huge difference.
FWIW
Mike
I don't know that it's a system, it's just that if you're paying attention, and your goal to improve your game, you will get better over time. I think a while back someone here noted that a study came out saying that to get good at a task (pro level) you had to put in 10,000 hours. How much you get better will be dependent upon how well you can concentrate; how good your memory is; and whether you have the ability to fractionate a task into its essential components. It'll also depend on whatever natural talents you have.
If you can't concentrate, or you just hit the table and bang balls, it can be 10 million balls and it's not going to do any good.
Lou Figueroa
The stuff you learned in 3 days with Randy will stay with you for the rest of your life. For less than the cost of many pool cues, you did something that is actually going to make you a better player. All you have to do now is apply what you learned.
SAM is the nuts for many people. I would say that about half of my students immediately love it...another 25% find it grows on them the more they use it (That was me when I first learned it) and the rest just file it away and don't use it. Work on it, and you will find yourself using it without even realizing it.
Congrats on taking that step!
Steve
I think that you already know how to use HAMB, CTE and many other systems. If you can drive an automobile, throw a ball, or swing a bat, club or tennis racquet you know, to some extent, how to swing a pool cue.
Can anyone tell us the math behind riding a bike? I doubt it because these are all based on expereince that begins with some reference point. You already know that a flick of your wrist will put substantial spin on a ping pong ball or on a tennis ball. You already know that you can impart spin on a golf ball if you use your body appropriately.
All of these things require some refernce point from which you learn to do different things. For most of us there is no math involved. Intentionally or not we select a reference point and our brain learns to compensate from that refernce point. Different people use different reference points and some are better than others. No math required.
BTW one of the best images I have ever found for explaining cue ball draw to someone who just can't get it is to ask if they ever learned to reverse the spin on a basket ball so that when they throw it to the ground it comes back to them. Most people say, "yeah, I can do that." Do the same thing, using the same idea with a cue stick and you get draw. Amazingly, to me, most of these people can immediately draw the ball better than before. Why is it that the reference we learned when spinning a basketball backwards transfers to drawing a cue ball with no math ior geometry required.
In general, the new player does not understand that spinning a basketball and spinning a cue ball are the same thing until someone points it out and then say say, "Oh, I see it now," and they can prove it by drawing the cue ball. We do not draw a cue ball with our thumbs, but our brain knows what to do -- interesting how the brain can transfer from one task to another.
HAMB being called a system is hilarious. You folks over think too many things.
The concept of rote learning is valid. But the prerequisite for learning through repetition requires an understanding of why you made the ball, or missed the ball. Then take that information and adjust accordingly. Somebody makes an off the cuff statement like "You'll be pretty good after you hit a million balls" long ago, and it has grown into an internet debate..... :killingme:
Chuck
The concept of rote learning is valid. But the prerequisite for learning through repetition requires an understanding of why you made the ball, or missed the ball. Then take that information and adjust accordingly. Somebody makes an off the cuff statement like "You'll be pretty good after you hit a million balls" long ago, and it has grown into an internet debate..... :killingme:
Chuck
I am a living testament to the HAMB system. I have been playing for 20+ years and during that time, I wasted a lot of years poking balls around. I improved at a dramatic rate through my first years, because I had a mentor help me and really applied those fundamentals. Actually, I ended up learning wrong, applying too much spin on the ball instead of using center ball for most shots with minimal english.
I stayed at a mediocre level for years and tried to teach myself to become a better player. I played, watched good players, and played some more, and stayed the same no matter how much time I put in. The problem was not that I didn't know how to make a ball, it was in the fact that I had the wrong principles, and actually spent too much time banging balls.
It wasn't until a great local player (Brian Jones) explained some things to me, that I started to sort out necessary from the unnecessary. I actually did get some lessons from the Great Buddy Hall, and he is partly responsible for giving me the confidence to face literally anyone on the table, but I must give most of the credit to Brian Jones. He sat me down and really talked to me about the why's and the how's of pool and the fact that it is really a very simple thing to play as long as your stroke is straight. After I had a solid set up and the right mindset, and after learning how to gamble, I have become a much, much more consistent player who isn't afraid to play anyone. The key for me was practice, but not just mindless practice. Practice with purpose, and keeping my sword sharp like days of the spirit of the 'Samurai'. Keeping your sword polished and sharp means you have to understand yourself and know why you are making any of the mistakes you make. If you spend your time poking balls around with no real consequence for missing, you are developing a 'spoiled stroke'. Your must stroke the ball with real intention and real purpose, knowing that if you don't make the ball your a$$ will be sliced in half by your opponent.
I stayed at a mediocre level for years and tried to teach myself to become a better player. I played, watched good players, and played some more, and stayed the same no matter how much time I put in. The problem was not that I didn't know how to make a ball, it was in the fact that I had the wrong principles, and actually spent too much time banging balls.
It wasn't until a great local player (Brian Jones) explained some things to me, that I started to sort out necessary from the unnecessary. I actually did get some lessons from the Great Buddy Hall, and he is partly responsible for giving me the confidence to face literally anyone on the table, but I must give most of the credit to Brian Jones. He sat me down and really talked to me about the why's and the how's of pool and the fact that it is really a very simple thing to play as long as your stroke is straight. After I had a solid set up and the right mindset, and after learning how to gamble, I have become a much, much more consistent player who isn't afraid to play anyone. The key for me was practice, but not just mindless practice. Practice with purpose, and keeping my sword sharp like days of the spirit of the 'Samurai'. Keeping your sword polished and sharp means you have to understand yourself and know why you are making any of the mistakes you make. If you spend your time poking balls around with no real consequence for missing, you are developing a 'spoiled stroke'. Your must stroke the ball with real intention and real purpose, knowing that if you don't make the ball your a$$ will be sliced in half by your opponent.
Try the HHAAP50 or the HHAAP50-TGAB system. That's "Half Hearted Attempt At Pocketing 50" or "Half Hearted Attempt At Pocketing 50 - Then Grab A Beer"
realized you were trying to make a point
Neil,
I realized you were trying to make a point about all systems. I think spell checker might have nailed you on the word I highlighted in red though.
One other thing, I think that HAMB should actually be known as the HAMB ONE system or more commonly as the Hambone system!
Hu
Neil,
I realized you were trying to make a point about all systems. I think spell checker might have nailed you on the word I highlighted in red though.
One other thing, I think that HAMB should actually be known as the HAMB ONE system or more commonly as the Hambone system!
Hu
Sounds like demasiado trabajo.<<<<<----(too much work):wink:
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I think you mean that you are testament against the million balls method.
Because as you stated you didn't start to get better until you received some quality instruction by those who know.
To use your sword analogy if I just picked up a sword and tried to learn swordsmanship through doing a million strokes I'd still be a terrible swordsman.
However I could receive a little instruction from a master and suddenly my swordsmanship might improve dramatically while still basically sucking because I hadn't yet mastered a lot of other techniques.
I also spent the time from when I was 17 until the time I was 30 hitting a million balls with dedicated practice. I had access to a pool table all the time and I would spend hours practicing ONE SHOT or ONE BANK.
I didn't know any systems for aiming or banking or kicking.
I met Jimmy Reid in the early 90s in Germany. He taught me a few things like the double the distance method of kicking - instantly my one-rail kicks got WAY WAY better. Jimmy also taught me how to shoot off the rail when the cueball was frozen to the rail and how to shoot over balls. The technique he taught me increased my ball making dramatically on those shots.
Later I learned a system for banking that has increased my banking percentages dramatically.
I went cross country with David Matlock who knows more systems than any player on Earth (seems like).
The point is that there are a lot of things that shorten the learning curve and "secrets" that are now available but that most people still don't know about.
I am living proof that one can practice diligently and be fully aware of what I am doing and willfully attempt to correct things when the ball doesn't go and STILL not drastically improve yet when shown something by a professional my game goes up in a matter of minutes after learning that thing.
Years ago a road player named "xxxx" (name withheld because he is one of the few truly undercover players still hustling around) gave me some lessons. He showed me a version of CTE that he didn't call CTE or anything.
His exact words to me as I started to break the rack for my one pocket lesson were "WHAT are you aiming at?"
See I wasn't using any aiming system for the break in one pocket - I always relied on feel for that one - and predictably I always got inconsistent results.
So we abandoned the one pocket lessons and he proceeded to show me his aiming technique.
Which as it turns out is pretty damn close to CTE. - Using what he showed me I started SLAMMING balls into the back of the pockets.
He said to me in true road player fashion, "don't do that it scares the pigeons away."
He taught me that once he is set he can get up - jabber with people - make a show - as long as he doesn't MOVE his feet - and when he turns around he can lay down on the ball and fire it in OR lay down just a hair off and MISS on purpose. His whole show was truly educational - we had several long talks about the art of hustling pool and he said "it's like robbing people without a gun". Now I am not a fan of robbing people but I can certainly appreciate when a person makes his endeavor into an art form. The point is though is that he had a very valid method of aiming that is VERY CLOSE to CTE and he showed it to me.
My only regret was that I had not learned it when I was 17 and had all the time in the world to play and gamble. Learning it when I was 30 with responsibilities and a relationship was too late to be able to really go to the levels I dreamed about.
You are fortunate to have a lot of great players around you. I have been fortunate in my life to have been able to hang out with a lot of great players.
Most people who play never really get that, even if they see the great players occasionally they still don't really get to know them and don't get close enough to be told "the secrets" (which are really just the little things that they do consistently).
Well be that as it may, what's life if not one big debate on why we are here anyway?
As Dave Segal says, pool is about putting the balls in the hole. Do that more often than the opponent on the money ball and you will win and be happy. Who cares how you get there?
I know that if I were a pool room owner I would certainly endorse the Million Balls method over any other
Practice makes you better at what ever you do! Most people I live around do not understand the difference between practice, and playing with their buddies!