the hit of a balabushka, scruggs, szamboti, etc.

[Bamacues]

I have played with one Bushka...it played very nicely, but I did not like the fat butt. I have played with many Scruggs cues...most hit awesome...only one that really had a crappy hit TO ME was a $4k fancy cue with an ivory joint....it had a strange vibration in it. I believe that there are subtle differences in the play of similarly constructed cues by the same maker, especially when different woods are used. Whether the "best" hit is W/W, stainless. or something else depends on the player. Whatever you win with has the best joint and construction....what does Earl play with?

 

[classiccues]

Anybody else out there that plays with a Gus or Balabushka ? we'd love to hear your stories..first time posters very welcome...

The Gus I like to use, is one of the best playing cues I ever owned. Sometimes I can go a few months not playing and after a half hour its like I haven't put it down in 7 days. But with my cue, I have a built in confidence level, for alot of reasons.
After reading all this joint debating and really thinking about it, I believe the best joint is the one you are used to. What I mean is, I try to use the p-shaft as an analogy. If you shoot with steel and go to ivory or another material, its a transition. Once you get used to the new joint, it becomes "better" by way of familiarity. When you change again, there is also an adjustment period, but then its like you never put it down.
Technical issues can be debated, ultra-joint, flat faced, conical, etc.. as far as the best, preference, thats it, IMHO.

Joe

 

[sasman]

never had chance to play with those high end cues. but I have capone, few gilberts, joss, buss and mezz power break, I do like the w/w better over steel joint, but also suprisely how good my mezz b/k hits compare to my other custom cues.. it's not pretty, it's cheap, and it has a very hard break tip... but it HITS good

 

[WilleeCue]

Technical issues can be debated, ultra-joint, flat faced, conical, etc.. as far as the best, preference, thats it, IMHO.
Joe

That sums it up nicely Joe.

If everyone liked the same "hit" and "Feel" then there would only be need for one cuemaker.
Early on I found the flat face wood to wood type of joint using a Radial pin apealed to me.
I have refined it a bit and am very happy with the way I make my joint now.
With very few exceptions that is the only type joint I will make.
If someone wants a stainless steel joint they aint gonna get it on a WilleeCue and that is a good thing.

 

[X Breaker]

Well, I think the "noise" players hear with the SS joint is usually parts hitting against each other during impact because there are gaps in the joint configuration.

I also believe that the gaps between the male and female is partially responsible for such noise, and that explains why a flat face 3/8 10 or radial is quieter. It is because metal hitting against wood would not produce as much noise as metal againt metal.

So, if you install more wood to wood contact or wood to metal contact at the joint, a SS joint will sound quieter. It is, however, not an indication of tight tolerance although it can be the case. You are just not hearing metal against metal; you are hearing metal against wood or wood against wood.

I have done this test and you can try it, it is very simple. Try to wrap some masking tape around the male on your SS joint, screw the cue together and listen to the hit. It is not the same because now there is a cushion between the metal parts.

Richard

 

[Cornerman]

So, if you install more wood to wood contact or wood to metal contact at the joint, a SS joint will sound quieter.

I just wanted to chime in to note in case anyone misread me, I don't mean to say that every cuemaker that makes a quieter SS joint uses the "more intimate contact" approach. Some do. Others do other things. That's why one can't generalize the hit of a piloted SS joint, which of course was the point.

Fred

 

[runscott]

Well, I think the "noise" players hear with the SS joint is usually parts hitting against each other during impact because there are gaps in the joint configuration.

I also believe that the gaps between the male and female is partially responsible for such noise, and that explains why a flat face 3/8 10 or radial is quieter. It is because metal hitting against wood would not produce as much noise as metal againt metal.

So, if you install more wood to wood contact or wood to metal contact at the joint, a SS joint will sound quieter. It is, however, not an indication of tight tolerance although it can be the case. You are just not hearing metal against metal; you are hearing metal against wood or wood against wood.

I have done this test and you can try it, it is very simple. Try to wrap some masking tape around the male on your SS joint, screw the cue together and listen to the hit. It is not the same because now there is a cushion between the metal parts.

Richard

Makes sense. Do you think cue construction could also soften the 'feel'? I have a Titlist conversion with piloted SS joint, and it has a very soft feel compared to other SS joints I've hit with. I thought it might have to do with the old straight-grain maple and full-splice construction.

 

[ScottR]

If the person had been deaf since birth then this wouldn't matter. It's the removal of feedback from a sense, that had been present, that changes the feel. A deaf person would only be able to evaluate feel with the senses he has.

Since other senses tend to get more sensitive when one is absent, I would imagine that it wouldn't bother them much at all.

I just read in the thread on Unknown IPT Players that Shane Van Boening wears hearing aids and turns them off when playing. Anyone know if that is true? If so, there's your strong player who is deaf.

 

[TATE]

I just read in the thread on Unknown IPT Players that Shane Van Boening wears hearing aids and turns them off when playing. Anyone know if that is true? If so, there's your strong player who is deaf.

Yes, he's deaf.

Chris

 

[runscott]

...
Also, I don't necessarily buy into the theory that a glued-up splice is always better than a pinned A-joint. I mean, how many Spains have you seen than were badly warped there? For me, it's a bunch. Joel is very meticulous, though, and IMO has a much better understanding of wood properties than Burt did. Because of this fewer of his cues tend to warp.

Just a few of my rambling thoughts.

Sean

...one more try. Sean, what's a 'pinned A-joint' ? (how is it different from the joint Spain used to connect ebony butts to maple handles in his later cues?). Fred, Sean - I realize this is probably "Cues 101" to you two, but I'd appreciate your input.

 

[cueaddicts]

...one more try. Sean, what's a 'pinned A-joint' ? (how is it different from the joint Spain used to connect ebony butts to maple handles in his later cues?). Fred, Sean - I realize this is probably "Cues 101" to you two, but I'd appreciate your input.

Cuemakers refer to the "A-joint" as where the handle meets the prong. Generally, all cues that have V channel cut points into the forearm and then a maple handle section will be connected with a dowel/screw set-up. A true "full splice" cue (think Titlist), however, has no connecting pin holding the two pieces together because the two pieces of wood are finger-jointed together and glued...veneers in between, of course.

Sean

 

[runscott]

Cuemakers refer to the "A-joint" as where the handle meets the prong. Generally, all cues that have V channel cut points into the forearm and then a maple handle section will be connected with a dowel/screw set-up. A true "full splice" cue (think Titlist), however, has no connecting pin holding the two pieces together because the two pieces of wood are finger-jointed together and glued...veneers in between, of course.

Sean

Thanks Sean. I even looked up 'A-Joint' in my handy-dandy "Encyclopedia of Billiards", with no luck. It's a good book, though - inexpensive and lots of interesting historical pictures.

 

[cueaddicts]

Thanks Sean. I even looked up 'A-Joint' in my handy-dandy "Encyclopedia of Billiards", with no luck. It's a good book, though - inexpensive and lots of interesting historical pictures.

Yep, that's most of their lingo. "A-joint" because it's the first joint they do when constructing a cue. Incidentally, on our site, when describing ring positions in cues, we start A, B, C, etc. from the joint back to the butt. A= shaft collar ring, B= butt joint collar ring, C= ring above wrap, etc. To each their own, I guess.

Just thought I'd mention this, as we've had some questions about this in the past.

Sean

 

[Baker(6x6)]

Thanks Sean. I even looked up 'A-Joint' in my handy-dandy "Encyclopedia of Billiards", with no luck. It's a good book, though - inexpensive and lots of interesting historical pictures.

I'm no cuemaker- but I've been following the exploits of my new cue being built- as the process interests me greatly.
This might help:
A nice solid piece of wood is chosen for the Handle (think wrap-area). A lathe is used to correctly bore and tap a hole in the handle- and insert a pin (screw). The area around some of the Pin is turned down to create a Tenon. This increases the glue-contact area. A hole is bored and tapped into the forearm (where the points/inlays usually are)- creating a snug fit for the Pin/Tenon. It's important that the faces of the handle and forearm meet squarely with no gaps. The Pin/Tenon is then screwed and glued (epoxy) into the forearm. This creates a very solid A-joint with lots of wood-to-wood contact. Properly done, the results should be as strong as a single piece of wood.

Ray

 

[JPB]

I just read in the thread on Unknown IPT Players that Shane Van Boening wears hearing aids and turns them off when playing. Anyone know if that is true? If so, there's your strong player who is deaf.

Didn't know that. Interesting he turns off the hearing aids. I wonder why. Maybe the lack of outside noise is a greater benefit. I dunno. I still think it would be interesting to try to do some testing to determine the effect of sound on perceived feel. Sort of like the tests that show how food packaging affects the perceived taste of food etc...

 

[skins]

This brings up an interesting point on feel and one that is hard to quantify. Sound may have a lot to do with what we describe as feel. Something I read recently about golf club development talked about this. A club engineer was talking about how differences in sound might be perceived as a difference in feel.

this man is a genius! we are humans after all and differently subjected to the senses all around us. our senses of hearing, sight, thought and touch are all different and all play a part in how we think cues hit. the only magic formula to any joint configuration, imho, is every part of the joint must be in contact with as much of the shaft as possible. the type's of material used at the joint will make our senses react differently to each cue we play with. i believe the trick is to find the cue, regardless of joint type, that makes you feel good and doesn't distract one sense from another. i have played well with stainless and just about every other configuration and i have found cues that "let me play" and some that get on my nerves. your physical senses can be put on automatic if you find any cue that makes your mental sense impenetrable.

 

[runscott]

I'm no cuemaker- but I've been following the exploits of my new cue being built- as the process interests me greatly.
This might help:
A nice solid piece of wood is chosen for the Handle (think wrap-area). A lathe is used to correctly bore and tap a hole in the handle- and insert a pin (screw). The area around some of the Pin is turned down to create a Tenon. This increases the glue-contact area. A hole is bored and tapped into the forearm (where the points/inlays usually are)- creating a snug fit for the Pin/Tenon. It's important that the faces of the handle and forearm meet squarely with no gaps. The Pin/Tenon is then screwed and glued (epoxy) into the forearm. This creates a very solid A-joint with lots of wood-to-wood contact. Properly done, the results should be as strong as a single piece of wood.
Ray

That helped - I had been thinking of "A" joint a something shaped like an "A" (like an A-frame house).