The Incredible Cut Shot-3x in a row!

[LastTwo]

Don't ask me how I did it, I still don't know, all I know is I hit center ball with a crisp medium speed stroke and I cut this shot in 3 times in a row, with witnesses:

The object ball is approximately 1 inch off the rail, and the cueball is in line with the object ball. I was hitting balls around with 2 friends watching me, and I just went for it, even though it looked impossible. I hit it perfectly, and one of my friends almost fell out of his chair. I set it up, did it again, set it up a third time, and did it again the same way. Since then I have not been able to even come close. I think I was possessed for about 2 minutes.

Here is the shot:

START(
%AD3V2%B[3\7%C[5\6%D[5\9%E[6]0%F[6\4%G\7]3%H[8A7%I[7\4%J[5\6
%K[8\6%L[4\5%M[3\2%N\2]4%O[8\9%Pd1V2%WC9E3%XD2U3
)END

 

[sjm]

Don't ask me how I did it, I still don't know, all I know is I hit center ball with a crisp medium speed stroke and I cut this shot in 3 times in a row, with witnesses:

The object ball is approximately 1 inch off the rail, and the cueball is in line with the object ball. I was hitting balls around with 2 friends watching me, and I just went for it, even though it looked impossible. I hit it perfectly, and one of my friends almost fell out of his chair. I set it up, did it again, set it up a third time, and did it again the same way. Since then I have not been able to even come close. I think I was possessed for about 2 minutes.

Here is the shot:

START(
%AD3V2%B[3\7%C[5\6%D[5\9%E[6]0%F[6\4%G\7]3%H[8A7%I[7\4%J[5\6
%K[8\6%L[4\5%M[3\2%N\2]4%O[8\9%Pd1V2%WC9E3%XD2U3
)END

Quite a shot! Of course, you do know you're killing your action?

 

[Bob Jewett]

The object ball is approximately 1 inch off the rail, and the cueball is in line with the object ball.

I'm afraid that I can't do the Wei table. Could you describe the shot in words?

I assume it's a thin cut. I know someone who claims to be able to make the black with the cue ball on the yellow spot with a cut to the right corner pocket (the harder direction). I've made it a couple of times from the brown spot, which already looks impossible.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Bob,

He set it up as a 3/4 table shot with the ob about an inch off the end rail near one of the end diamonds and the cb and ob about even longways. He then cut the ball into the other corner pocket.

 

[Bob Jewett]

He set it up as a 3/4 table shot with the ob about an inch off the end rail near one of the end diamonds and the cb and ob about even longways. He then cut the ball into the other corner pocket.

You didn't mention the position along the short rail for the object ball. Does this describe the shot:

The object ball is an inch off the foot rail and a diamond from the corner. The cue ball is on the headstring and also a diamond from the same long cushion. The shot is to cut the object ball three diamonds along the short rail straight into the tougher foot pocket.
​

I think that's unambiguous, except for left/right and the distance of the object ball from the pocket it's going into.

At any rate, it sound like a great shot and perfect for ruining all your future action.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I'm afraid that I can't do the Wei table. Could you describe the shot in words?

I assume it's a thin cut. I know someone who claims to be able to make the black with the cue ball on the yellow spot with a cut to the right corner pocket (the harder direction). I've made it a couple of times from the brown spot, which already looks impossible.

Well I've potted the snooker black in the left pocket from the green spot a couple of times. I have seen FL's video of him doing this, so I went and tried it. You need to hit it very hard and just shave the ball. It will barely reach the pocket.

While it looks impossible, I actually calculated the angle to be a little over 78 degress. I have overcut this shot to about 82 degrees which is about the maximum cut angle possible tomove a ball a couple of feet. 85 degrees may be the finest cut possible but you couldn't move the object ball more than a few inches even with extreme power.

The Wei Table diagram above looks like the cue ball is too high...not parrallel to the object ball. If object ball hits top rail on way in, the angle could be about 78 degrees. Very tough to repeat 3 times in a row.

 

[chefjeff]

I'm afraid that I can't do the Wei table. Could you describe the shot in words?

<snip>QUOTE]

I'm right there with ya' Bob---can't see a thing. I've downloaded the Shockwave stuff and have tried repeatedly to "see" a shot, but can never get anything to appear. The tutorial doesn't help me at all...

Is there some secret to the Wei table program? Can someone help us here?

Jeff Livingston

 

[sjm]

I'm afraid that I can't do the Wei table. Could you describe the shot in words?

<snip>QUOTE]

I'm right there with ya' Bob---can't see a thing. I've downloaded the Shockwave stuff and have tried repeatedly to "see" a shot, but can never get anything to appear. The tutorial doesn't help me at all...

Is there some secret to the Wei table program? Can someone help us here?

Jeff Livingston

Bob and Jeff:

I'm a relatively new user of the Wei Table, and I've had good results using it, so I'll try to give it to you in layman's terms.

Try the following as an experiment.

1) Highlight the Wei Code that follows below these five-step instructions by single left clicking your mouse on the "S" in Start. Leaving the left mouse key depressed, drag your mouse so that everything from the "S" in start to the "D" in end is highlighted. Once all the Wei code is highlighted, take your hand off of the mouse. If you're doing it right, the Wei code will remain highlighted. If not, try again.
2) Using the menu on your internet service and select "edit" and then "copy".
3) Open Wei Table http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html
4) When you get to the Wei table page, click on the "paste" option, which is located just below the right hand side of the Wei table.
5) This should give you the setup associated with the Wei code below, which, by the way, is a standard straight pool break shot position.

START(
%AN0I5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%PW9I3
)END

Tell me how you make out. If you stumble, identify at which step in the instructions you had the problem.

If you are successful, I'll next post how you share your created positions with others.

 

[drivermaker]

Don't ask me how I did it, I still don't know, all I know is I hit center ball with a crisp medium speed stroke and I cut this shot in 3 times in a row, with witnesses:

The object ball is approximately 1 inch off the rail, and the cueball is in line with the object ball.

In the words of Grady Seasons to Vincent in TCOM, "you just got lucky, prick". (or something to that effect)(might not be in the edited for t.v. version)

 

[LastTwo]

In the words of Grady Seasons to Vincent in TCOM, "you just got lucky, prick". (or something to that effect)(might not be in the edited for t.v. version)

The first time was lucky, the second was coincidence, and the third time was all skill baby

 

[drivermaker]

The first time was lucky, the second was coincidence, and the third time was all skill baby

And the fourth?

 

[sjm]

Hi Bob,

Other than to gain attention in a billiard forum why would anyone attempt such a shot? 14.1? No, I would attempt the shot by hitting it on the other side and put into the close pocket. One-pocket? The ball should be played safe or if that is last two's pocket put it as close as you can. Other than a Fast Larry or Jeanette Lee trick shot the shot is about 3% makable or 3 times out of a hundred.

The cue ball hitting the object ball at that angle doesn't generate enough energy to get the object ball to the pocket. So if Jeanette or Fast Larry tells me about making the shot then I will accept there explaniation, but last two, never.

I don't believe you last two. That's why I am putting you on my ignore list. Maybe last two you should have titled this thread the "Magic Kingdom"

Attached last two's WEI Table

Cheers,

"Gremlin"

Well, then, Gremlin, let's do the math, and I'll use your three out of a hundred to compute the probabilities.

Odds of making this shot on your first three tries: 37,036 to 1

Odds of making this shot three times in a row during any given 25 attempts: 1,481 to 1

Odds of making this shot three times in a row during any given 100 attempts: 370 to 1

Odds of making this shot three times in a row during any given 2,000 attempts: 36 to 1

Guess if you try it enough times, it could happen. I believe LastTwo on this one.

Nonetheless, you make a great point. Unless there is a position in some pool discipline from which this shot would be a sensible choice, why practice it? Having said that, though, I must concede that I have, on occasion, been known to fiddle around with shots that have little or no application in actual play. Still, I try my best to avoid it.

 

[drivermaker]

The cue ball hitting the object ball at that angle doesn't generate enough energy to get the object ball to the pocket. So if Jeanette or Fast Larry tells me about making the shot then I will accept there explaniation, but last two, never.

I heard through the grapevine that LastTwo is in the process of perfecting this shot and will eventually be on the trick shot circuit in lieu of a 9 ball career. I'm not sure if he's selected a stage name yet, but I think "FAST GNAT" is under consideration. I thought about attempting the shot, but I figured why bother. I gotta get those long straight in ones that are at the center of the table down pat first.

 

[chefjeff]

Hi Bob,

Other than to gain attention in a billiard forum why would anyone attempt such a shot? <snip>

Cheers,

"Gremlin"

I can think of a lot of reasons for me and others shooting this shot. Here's a few:

To, like you said, gain attention in a billiard forum.
To make Gremlin shake his head in disbelief that someone whould waste his/her time shooting it.
For fun.
For more fun.
For even more fun.
Because it adds to my happiness.
To sharpen my eyes.
To impress a girl.
To impress an opponent.
To have fun.
Just for the hell of it.
Because some on this forum canNOT do it.
Because some on this forum won't even try it.
To compare deflection of cues.
To see how the cloth reacts.
To understand the limits of pool physics.
To...

It's subjective. You know, not everyone has the same motivations for playing pool. Not everyone wants to win everytime. Not everyone limits their shots to only game shots.

What's wrong with others shooting whatever shots they want to shoot? I don't see the problem here. Some like chocolate, some vanilla, so what?--it's still ice cream.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Bob Jewett]

... the shot is about 3% makable or 3 times out of a hundred.
...
Attached last two's WEI Table

I doubt that the shot illustrated is the shot he made, and I will give him the benefit of doubt about having made three tough shots in a row.

As illustrated, the cut angle is 90.3 degrees. This is not a 3% shot, or even a 0.01% shot with a level stroke. If anyone wants to try it where I play (on a flat table with tight pockets) they get 100:1 odds.

If I had to make the ball in the indicated pocket without banking it -- say my opponent needs one ball at one pocket and has one hung in his pocket and another just over the line, or as a proposition -- I would play cushion-first with right english.

If LastTwo wasn't joking, I think his remembery is playing tricks on him. Or, the table is bogus.

 

[Williebetmore]

Has anyone else seen the variation on this shot (it may be a common proposition shot, I don't know; but I was flabbergasted when I first saw it made)? The object ball is frozen to the foot rail cushion (center diamond), the cue ball is placed on top of the head rail cushion, center diamond, 9 feet away (cue ball is off the playing surface). The object ball is cut in one of the corner pockets (I think the cue ball is hit with a semi-masse). It looks impossible when set up (the cut angle is definitely more than 90 degrees), but the pro I saw do it will wager any amount they can do it in 10 tries (made it on the 3rd try when I saw it).

 

[Bob Jewett]

Has anyone else seen the variation on this shot (it may be a common proposition shot, I don't know; but I was flabbergasted when I first saw it made)? The object ball is frozen to the foot rail cushion (center diamond), the cue ball is placed on top of the head rail cushion, center diamond, 9 feet away (cue ball is off the playing surface). The object ball is cut in one of the corner pockets (I think the cue ball is hit with a semi-masse). It looks impossible when set up (the cut angle is definitely more than 90 degrees), but the pro I saw do it will wager any amount they can do it in 10 tries (made it on the 3rd try when I saw it).

The shot is an absolutely standard and ancient proposition shot. See the discussion starting on page 8 of this issue of On The Break News:
http://www.onthebreaknews.com/August04-01.htm
Anyone who asks for 10 tries is trying to steal. Give him two, but don't bet a lot.
The shot from the rail cap does not require any masse, and I like to play it with as level a cue stick as possible.

 

[sjm]

Has anyone else seen the variation on this shot (it may be a common proposition shot, I don't know; but I was flabbergasted when I first saw it made)? The object ball is frozen to the foot rail cushion (center diamond), the cue ball is placed on top of the head rail cushion, center diamond, 9 feet away (cue ball is off the playing surface). The object ball is cut in one of the corner pockets (I think the cue ball is hit with a semi-masse). It looks impossible when set up (the cut angle is definitely more than 90 degrees), but the pro I saw do it will wager any amount they can do it in 10 tries (made it on the 3rd try when I saw it).

Willie, I know a few "C" players that can make that shot with the cue ball on top of the cushion. In thirty five years of play, though, I have yet to see it come up in a game!

 

[LastTwo]

Actually you guys are right, the shot on the WEI table wasn't the shot. Move the cueball a balls width over to the left, and that's the shot. I thought that I had the balls in line, but when I set the shot up again today, I instantly saw that that wasn't the shot I made. It did look right when I set it up on the WEI table, but I had to see the shot again on an actual table to correct myself. The balls are actually lined up edge to edge. Sorry about that.

 

[sjm]

Hello,

Bob I read your articles so I enjoy your comments. That is the table code from last two above. I brought it up, screen captured it, and saved it as a
jpeg.

Your right about the one-pocket rail shot. If it was a 9-Ball I would cut in the close pocket but if I wanted to be bad I would I bank the length of the table into the corner pocket in my WEI Table below. (A & B) (C) is the way last two has his WEI drawn up.

Two years ago Jose Parica showed me the speed I had to hit the cue ball at
to make the table length banks and I have been getting better ever since. I am not afraid to play them now. Nothing more demoralizing to your apponent than making 2 or 3 table length banks. It's great fun! Oh, I play pool for fun and recreation. Money really means nothing as pool is my hobby.

Cheers,

"Gremlin"

Most impressive, Gremlin. How did you manage to get the image of the Wei Table into your post?