The Missing Gene....HEART!

JonTravisTaylor said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSM1mvMypWU

Where is it? Is it completely gone from our world? I don’t think so; it’s just very rare to see…
I’m in a random pool hall, I just walked in and nobody knows me, there is a young guy running a million balls on a Pro Diamond, I ask for a game…”I’ll call a guy, I know somebody”, I tell him I am not looking to make anybody’s rent payment I just want to play, I like cheap one pocket…20 a game, I would even play for 5 or 10, I just want to play…”I can’t right now, but I will call a guy”. I wait around about 90 mins., hit some on the Diamond, getting the feel of the table, when finally this kid shows up. He is about 20 years my junior, breaks out a SW, and says to me he will play some one pocket for 100 a game but he wants to get 10-7. I just laugh. I tell him I am just wanting to play cheap, and we can play even. He comes back with “cheap is not worth the time, and I don’t know you so I need 10-7”. I laugh again and tell him FU, I don’t know you either, and since they got you on speed dial you should give me 10-7. He refuses, then proceeds to walk around, talking to everybody that will listen, while watching me practice…this goes on for another hour. Finally he comes over and starts whining about needing something…I told him he’s right…he needs some HEART! I tell him that kids like him is the reason I quit playing for 10 years. It seems everybody wants the stone cold nuts before they risk a dime. He finally relents and says he can play but for no less than 50, I lose 4 games right off the bat. He is a great shot maker, but a poor mover. I feel like I should beat him if I tighten up and quit leaving him risk/reward shots because he keeps making them! It’s his break, I am stuck 200, and I ask him if he wants to double the bet. He agrees, I change my tactics, and I beat him 6 out of 7…let the flood gates open, the crying starts and he wants 10-7 again. I did not run over this kid, all those games were very close, usually coming down to the last 2 balls. Needless to say we never could agree on a spot, and that makes me a “F’ng Hustler”.
I was never a hustler. When I grew up, the way I learned to play is I practiced a million hours and would play ANYBODY. I walked into pool halls from Michigan to Texas, from Tennessee to Wyoming and pretty much all the states in between. I would walk straight up to the counter, request a rack of balls and ask who the best player in the room was. Then I went and respectfully asked him to play. We gambled but it wasn’t huge but it did allow us to keep score  I NEVER beat them…I was never the best, but I always learned something to make me better. I always learned who the next player down the rung was and then I would go play them…usually within a few matches I knew where I was on the food chain. This enabled me to adjust my wagering accordingly so that the trip wasn’t a complete bust.
I was exposed to the stigma and derision from my family due to my choices growing up. It is up to us to change the way pool is viewed. We have to make sure up and comers realize that pool; 99.9 % of the time is a PASSION, not a livelihood. Just look at the number of broke champions out there! Show a little heart and some class. Be willing to bet smaller to help educate, or better yet to learn. I once had 20 dollars to my name and I ran into a certified champion, and he played me one-pocket for 1.00 a game. FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME! Certainly not because he needed my last 20.
We all know that the vast majority of us will not get rich playing pool. But if we are lucky we can help mold the way our industry is looked at, help to build champions whose CORE beliefs are Honesty and Integrity. We could learn a lot from the PGA and its affiliates. If you are fortunate enough to be able to play this game I hope you have the same types of memories and experiences that kept me coming back. Along the way I have lost thousands, but I would not trade it in a second. There was a Professor, the Magician, The Rocket, The Cannon, Banks, Bugs, The Freezer, Shorty’s, and more “Little _ _ _’s” than I can count. All great players. All enriched my life, even if not my wallet…
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I play it just like you. And just like you I find that the players these days are often very nitty with no heart. BUT my friend Dave Gross (12squared) who has seen me shipping it all in on heart has said that there is a fine line between heart and stupidity and that I dance on it. I have had a lot of beat downs on the pool table in my life but I wouldn't trade any of them because I have had plenty of outrun-the-nuts victories in tough spots as well. Those memories mean a LOT to me because I didn't have to trick anyone into giving up the nuts, I didn't have to whine and cry and moan to get a game. I just got up and played and hit a gear and won the money.

So that makes me a sucker a lot of the time but it comes with no regrets. All these heartless nits in the pool room looking for the nuts seem to stay broke despite never getting in a bad game. I never have to look back on my life and say I stole from every sucker who played me and I have nothing to show for it. I can look back with pride and say I took some beatings trying to play above my pay grade and sometimes I did manage to play above my head and snap off some good scores.

Pool just ain't what it was 20 years ago and back then it wasn't what it was 20 years before that. Now people are just scared unless they have a line on you. They are nitty and scared and act like every person who wants to bet a little is out to rob them.

I have to say that it's super nitty when someone walks into their home room who has been called to play you, doesn't have a clue who you are and he asks for weight AND declares that less than 100 a game isn't worth his time.

So this is a good spot to tell an Allen Hopkins story.

Allen tells me that he went on the road with a green backer. This guy had never staked a road player before. The first night out Allen gets in a cheap game and the bet keeps escalating until Allen has won around $5000 and busted the guy. The next night Allen is in another pool room and he starts up a game with a local for $5 a game. The new backer pulls Allen aside and says, "we won $5000 last night, why are you playing this guy for $5 a game?" Allen replies, "we haven't made the room rent yet tonight."

That's not only heart it's how to do business the right way.
 
I'm gladius maiximus and I'm here to tell you what yall do echos an eternity.....however some of you will ( a very small percentage so don't worry) lay in the field awaiting death....errrr.....nevermind,


I saw the movie. Enjoyed it.
 
You're the road player. After losing 4 games in a row, YOU doubled the bet and proceeded to beat the guy 6 out of 7 games, while able to keep the games close. And you say that your opponent has no heart because he asked for weight when you are clearly the better player????

Perhaps it is YOU who needs to find HEART???
 
11 games of 1 pocket and only two games difference; sounds like ya'll should still be playing.

another note is that just because you beat someone on a given night doesn't mean you are the better player. hence the accusation of "hustler."

during my career i have beaten a champion or two and even busted a player who i later learned was ranked 17th in the world at the time. yes we were playing even, but we were playing on my home turf.

the point is that a blind hog finds an acorn every now and again, but only if he roots around. no acorn ever came to anyone who wasn't at least trying to find one.
 
I had a ton of heart but I got squashed all the time so now I just play by myself. Every once in a while I'll play a guy if he seems like he genuinely wants to just play. I guess you gotta be really good to have the willingness to play someone you don't know because its a good chance the guy plays jam up.
 
I'm on the side of the OP on this one. For those that feel he hustled or contributed to this problem, re-read his post.

He says he's there on business and just wants to have a little money on the game to keep it social yet competitive. Some of you claim he's clearly the better player. He won 6 games and the kid won 5. Sounds like a fairly close game to me.

He then responded saying he did offer 9-8 after, a reasonable adjustment for you non-gamblers out there. The kid kept going on about 10-7, which is a huge adjustment and keep in mind, it was the kid who was all about betting a hundred per game.

Maybe I'm partial to the OP becuz I've found myself in similar circumstances before, and while I feel I'm being logical, my opponent is stuck on stupid. Sometimes, you just can't deal with illogical people.
 
You also have to look at the OP's opponent's perspective.

How does the kid know if the OP is really a business man or what not?

From the OP, fact is the OP got dominated at small stake. He then doubled the bet and dominated his opponent. That's a red flag right there.

The even bigger flag to the kid is that the games were close, yet he kept losing at a higher stake.

One cannot judge by the number of the games won/loss between the OP and the kid to say they are even or close in speed. Totally apples and oranges: the stakes, the manners the games were won/lost, etc... Think of Jack Cooney.

How can the OP say the kid has no heart when the kid gave a complete stranger action playing even at the beginning of their session?


#Cruncher said:
I'm on the side of the OP on this one. For those that feel he hustled or contributed to this problem, re-read his post.

He says he's there on business and just wants to have a little money on the game to keep it social yet competitive. Some of you claim he's clearly the better player. He won 6 games and the kid won 5. Sounds like a fairly close game to me.

He then responded saying he did offer 9-8 after, a reasonable adjustment for you non-gamblers out there. The kid kept going on about 10-7, which is a huge adjustment and keep in mind, it was the kid who was all about betting a hundred per game.

Maybe I'm partial to the OP becuz I've found myself in similar circumstances before, and while I feel I'm being logical, my opponent is stuck on stupid. Sometimes, you just can't deal with illogical people.
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Thanks Crunch! I still feel like I don't have to like it giving up the breaks or playing 9-8... on a side note a number of years back, I am in Wyoming, I go thru my spiel for a game and get pointed to this little quiet, polite, mexican looking gentleman. His name was Dan. We start off even playing 1 pocket, not betting to high, by the end, i was getting 10-2 and was barely hanging on!!! He tells me later one pocket is not really his game, but I can play his buddy who likes it better but isnt quite as good as he is. I say okay and meet his buddy, Pete. Same results :) Though I lost I learned a ton!!! and the money was returned tenfold over the years...I later learned they were Danny Medina and Pete Truillio...I think they were related and somebody said maybe they won a partners world title or something?? Anyway, both were great players and very respectful at the table with a ton of knowledge. It was a joy!
 
I agree that the younger player's perspective could have been completely skewed by the events that took place.

However, I don't have sympathy for a player that had to bet a minimum of a certain amount in addition to having a three ball spot. Keep in mind that this is the player that was "called in", not some helpless victim.
 
That was a very good read.Yeah,What happened to the days where you just walk In and ask for a game and somebody either stepped up to play or they called someone In and they stepped up to play? I think he's right on.People just don't have guts like they use to.Instead of getting up there and just finding out who's the best,everybody would rather just try to steal.I just think It's a disease.Alot of places where I've been alot,It's like
It runs through the whole city too.Well you can bet that most players that became champions jumped right up and said flip It.

and he was talking about cheap action too, not trying to high roll anybody.
John B.
 
I think a lot of people will play anyone even if they are B level. But a pool player that has seen it all is looking at it like he may lose 300 by the end of the session playing 20, 30 a game....or more. He is just being cautious.
 
Hey Raise1, heart refers to how the match started, not how it ended, though his inability to come off the 10-7 was questionable. He was a good shooter and would have beat me at 9 ball. If I left him a long hard shot he usually made it and ran out! I just wish people that had those skills and abilities were willing to "play to see" and not want the nuts from the get go! You will ALWAYS gain more respect if you start even and adjust form there...how would you feel if some guy that you dont know talks you into a spot and then runs 5 racks? Puts a bitter taste in your mouth, if similar situations happen often enough you become bitter about the whole game, maybe you quit all together, which in the long run makes the entire sport suffer...which ties in with my OP about the stigma attatched to it. Just play your game, adjust when needed, and kill 'em with kindness..."nice shot sir!"
 
JB Cases said:
I play it just like you. And just like you I find that the players these days are often very nitty with no heart. BUT my friend Dave Gross (12squared) who has seen me shipping it all in on heart has said that there is a fine line between heart and stupidity and that I dance on it. I have had a lot of beat downs on the pool table in my life but I wouldn't trade any of them because I have had plenty of outrun-the-nuts victories in tough spots as well. Those memories mean a LOT to me because I didn't have to trick anyone into giving up the nuts, I didn't have to whine and cry and moan to get a game. I just got up and played and hit a gear and won the money.

So that makes me a sucker a lot of the time but it comes with no regrets. All these heartless nits in the pool room looking for the nuts seem to stay broke despite never getting in a bad game. I never have to look back on my life and say I stole from every sucker who played me and I have nothing to show for it. I can look back with pride and say I took some beatings trying to play above my pay grade and sometimes I did manage to play above my head and snap off some good scores.

Pool just ain't what it was 20 years ago and back then it wasn't what it was 20 years before that. Now people are just scared unless they have a line on you. They are nitty and scared and act like every person who wants to bet a little is out to rob them.

I have to say that it's super nitty when someone walks into their home room who has been called to play you, doesn't have a clue who you are and he asks for weight AND declares that less than 100 a game isn't worth his time.

So this is a good spot to tell an Allen Hopkins story.

Allen tells me that he went on the road with a green backer. This guy had never staked a road player before. The first night out Allen gets in a cheap game and the bet keeps escalating until Allen has won around $5000 and busted the guy. The next night Allen is in another pool room and he starts up a game with a local for $5 a game. The new backer pulls Allen aside and says, "we won $5000 last night, why are you playing this guy for $5 a game?" Allen replies, "we haven't made the room rent yet tonight."

That's not only heart it's how to do business the right way.
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Yes,very good and me too on everything you said.John B.
 
raise1 said:
You also have to look at the OP's opponent's perspective.

How does the kid know if the OP is really a business man or what not?

From the OP, fact is the OP got dominated at small stake. He then doubled the bet and dominated his opponent. That's a red flag right there.

The even bigger flag to the kid is that the games were close, yet he kept losing at a higher stake.

One cannot judge by the number of the games won/loss between the OP and the kid to say they are even or close in speed. Totally apples and oranges: the stakes, the manners the games were won/lost, etc... Think of Jack Cooney.

How can the OP say the kid has no heart when the kid gave a complete stranger action playing even at the beginning of their session?
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How does the kid find out If he's a business man or what not? He get's his scared ass up there and trys him some.John B.
 
JonTravisTaylor said:
I am not complaining...just posting an observation...and to quote J. Croce...

Uptown got it's huslters
The bowery got it's bums
42nd street got Big Jim Walker
He's a pool shooting son of a gun....

Big Jim got his hat
Find out where it's at
And its not hustlin' people strange to you
Even if you do got a two-piece custom made pool cue!


I guess the moral is...

Don't pull out a 2500.00 custom cue and the first thing you do is ask for some weight!

So respectfully, Black-Balled, I will agree to disagree ;)
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Welcome to the world the APA created. :shocked2:
 
I can't help but add my voice in support of the OP. How in the world can any self-respecting player (one who was called in, at that) demand 10-7 out of the gate but declare that anything less than $50 a game isn't worth his time? If those elements didn't exist, I would be more inclined to have some sympathy for the opponent and to ask the OP to look at things from his oppoent's point of view. However, from how the scenario has been described it seems obvious to me that the OP was looking for a game and the opponent was looking for a score!
 
I have a much better understanding of what you mean now when you say the start and not the end.



JonTravisTaylor said:
Hey Raise1, heart refers to how the match started, not how it ended, though his inability to come off the 10-7 was questionable. He was a good shooter and would have beat me at 9 ball. If I left him a long hard shot he usually made it and ran out! I just wish people that had those skills and abilities were willing to "play to see" and not want the nuts from the get go! You will ALWAYS gain more respect if you start even and adjust form there...how would you feel if some guy that you dont know talks you into a spot and then runs 5 racks? Puts a bitter taste in your mouth, if similar situations happen often enough you become bitter about the whole game, maybe you quit all together, which in the long run makes the entire sport suffer...which ties in with my OP about the stigma attatched to it. Just play your game, adjust when needed, and kill 'em with kindness..."nice shot sir!"
Click to expand...
 
JBKY said:
How does the kid find out If he's a business man or what not? He get's his scared ass up there and trys him some.John B.
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The kid did try the OP even, didn't he?

The kid did lose 86% of the time once the stake was raised, didn't he?
 
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