The Missing Gene....HEART!

[JB Cases]

You assume way too much I don't even know where to start:

1/ You assume the OP asked to raise the bet "out of frustration". Nowhere in his post did he say he was frustrated. He did say the kid was a poor mover, which means that the OP knew he got the upper hand in the game of chess. Remember that, from his own words, the OP has been "into pool halls from Michigan to Texas, from Tennessee to Wyoming and pretty much all the states in between" and has gambled with everyone. So one can reasonably deduct that the OP is an excellent player himself.

2/ You assume that the OP tried his best, and since the games were close, it's a close match. Fact is the OP dominated the kid to the tune of winning 86% of the games once the OP raised the bet. Even Jack Cooney would be proud of the OP.

3/ Unless you are the OP, or know the OP's speed well, it is totally baseless to assume that the OP was playing his best as you said.

Before we get off track, the topic is missing HEART. What I find ironic is that the OP got the cash -in a game where he clearly has the best of with all of his experience for being into every pool room in the country- yet the kid is called out???

I did assume a lot because when I read the OP's story it resonates with me. So unless the OP is a stone cold hustler in the vein of Jack Cooney and he is using this forum to ply his trade electronically I tend to empathize with him because as the story reads I have been there many times.

The reason the "kid" is getting called out is because the winner is being called a nit and a hustler because he wouldn't give up a lot of weight after winning a few games and making a tiny score.

Of course I don't KNOW all the facts so I am projecting my own experiences on top of the story.

Substitute my name with the OP and the story could have gone one of these two ways, as the story went with me eking out a small score OR with me going flat off after raising the bet with me thinking the whole time I should be winning. I can guarantee you that I would have lost far more than the kid did.

Had anyone walked into the pool after getting "called" to play me and asked me for ANY weight when they had no idea who I am then I would call them a heartless nit. That's just me. When I walk into a pool room and ask to play some then I am ready to play some with no weight just to see what I can do. I played the #1 player in China 2 years ago even 9 ball, 8 ball and one pocket. I walked right by the big ass poster with him holding a huge trophy and asked him to play some. I lost a couple hundred but I didn't whine and cry like scared puppy. Now if we play nine ball I get weight. If we play one pocket we play even even though I should get a couple balls because I like the challenge.

So to me there is NO WAY that the OP is a hustler. No way he hustled the kid. The kid tried to pull a move by asking for 10:7 AFTER his pool room buddies had already clocked the OP's speed. The OP didn't bite and asked to play cheap and the kid condescended to play for fifty a game even (probably thinking he was stealing). The OP lost several games thinking he should have won them and raised the bet to the kid's original $100. Now if the kid didn't think he was stealing at that point why would he agree to play $100 even when he originally wanted 10:7?

The point is that I THINK that the games were close, the bet was irrelevant, the kid could have quit even if he didn't like the game. In no way was he hustled and to tell the OP that he hustled the kid or was somehow being a nit for not giving up weight in a relatively even game was wrong and itself nitty.

Joe Salazar told me that in the old days you matched up with someone and if they pounded on you then you came back the next day and the day after than until you started beating them or you gave up and went looking for other opponents until you got strong enough to play them again. He said today's players wont stand still for a beating like the old timers. They won't get toughend up that way and consequently they are scared to jump up and play some against strangers.

When I grew up in the pool room me and several other guys would race other to the door to play any stranger who walked in. We were scared to death of being the one who didn't make a score. Sometimes the stranger would whip our asses and we would sit around all sad talking about it but the next stranger that walked in the door would get the same treatment. We didn't bet a lot because we didn't have a lot but we all had plenty of heart.

 

[VIProfessor]

I did assume a lot because when I read the OP's story it resonates with me. So unless the OP is a stone cold hustler in the vein of Jack Cooney and he is using this forum to ply his trade electronically I tend to empathize with him because as the story reads I have been there many times.

The reason the "kid" is getting called out is because the winner is being called a nit and a hustler because he wouldn't give up a lot of weight after winning a few games and making a tiny score.

Of course I don't KNOW all the facts so I am projecting my own experiences on top of the story.

Substitute my name with the OP and the story could have gone one of these two ways, as the story went with me eking out a small score OR with me going flat off after raising the bet with me thinking the whole time I should be winning. I can guarantee you that I would have lost far more than the kid did.

Had anyone walked into the pool after getting "called" to play me and asked me for ANY weight when they had no idea who I am then I would call them a heartless nit. That's just me. When I walk into a pool room and ask to play some then I am ready to play some with no weight just to see what I can do. I played the #1 player in China 2 years ago even 9 ball, 8 ball and one pocket. I walked right by the big ass poster with him holding a huge trophy and asked him to play some. I lost a couple hundred but I didn't whine and cry like scared puppy. Now if we play nine ball I get weight. If we play one pocket we play even even though I should get a couple balls because I like the challenge.

So to me there is NO WAY that the OP is a hustler. No way he hustled the kid. The kid tried to pull a move by asking for 10:7 AFTER his pool room buddies had already clocked the OP's speed. The OP didn't bite and asked to play cheap and the kid condescended to play for fifty a game even (probably thinking he was stealing). The OP lost several games thinking he should have won them and raised the bet to the kid's original $100. Now if the kid didn't think he was stealing at that point why would he agree to play $100 even when he originally wanted 10:7?

The point is that I THINK that the games were close, the bet was irrelevant, the kid could have quit even if he didn't like the game. In no way was he hustled and to tell the OP that he hustled the kid or was somehow being a nit for not giving up weight in a relatively even game was wrong and itself nitty.

Joe Salazar told me that in the old days you matched up with someone and if they pounded on you then you came back the next day and the day after than until you started beating them or you gave up and went looking for other opponents until you got strong enough to play them again. He said today's players wont stand still for a beating like the old timers. They won't get toughend up that way and consequently they are scared to jump up and play some against strangers.

When I grew up in the pool room me and several other guys would race other to the door to play any stranger who walked in. We were scared to death of being the one who didn't make a score. Sometimes the stranger would whip our asses and we would sit around all sad talking about it but the next stranger that walked in the door would get the same treatment. We didn't bet a lot because we didn't have a lot but we all had plenty of heart.

Tap, tap, tap!

 

[barking]

huh

kid hustled himself.

 

[JonTravisTaylor]

I did assume a lot because when I read the OP's story it resonates with me. So unless the OP is a stone cold hustler in the vein of Jack Cooney and he is using this forum to ply his trade electronically I tend to empathize with him because as the story reads I have been there many times.

The reason the "kid" is getting called out is because the winner is being called a nit and a hustler because he wouldn't give up a lot of weight after winning a few games and making a tiny score.

Of course I don't KNOW all the facts so I am projecting my own experiences on top of the story.

Substitute my name with the OP and the story could have gone one of these two ways, as the story went with me eking out a small score OR with me going flat off after raising the bet with me thinking the whole time I should be winning. I can guarantee you that I would have lost far more than the kid did.

Had anyone walked into the pool after getting "called" to play me and asked me for ANY weight when they had no idea who I am then I would call them a heartless nit. That's just me. When I walk into a pool room and ask to play some then I am ready to play some with no weight just to see what I can do. I played the #1 player in China 2 years ago even 9 ball, 8 ball and one pocket. I walked right by the big ass poster with him holding a huge trophy and asked him to play some. I lost a couple hundred but I didn't whine and cry like scared puppy. Now if we play nine ball I get weight. If we play one pocket we play even even though I should get a couple balls because I like the challenge.

So to me there is NO WAY that the OP is a hustler. No way he hustled the kid. The kid tried to pull a move by asking for 10:7 AFTER his pool room buddies had already clocked the OP's speed. The OP didn't bite and asked to play cheap and the kid condescended to play for fifty a game even (probably thinking he was stealing). The OP lost several games thinking he should have won them and raised the bet to the kid's original $100. Now if the kid didn't think he was stealing at that point why would he agree to play $100 even when he originally wanted 10:7?

The point is that I THINK that the games were close, the bet was irrelevant, the kid could have quit even if he didn't like the game. In no way was he hustled and to tell the OP that he hustled the kid or was somehow being a nit for not giving up weight in a relatively even game was wrong and itself nitty.

Joe Salazar told me that in the old days you matched up with someone and if they pounded on you then you came back the next day and the day after than until you started beating them or you gave up and went looking for other opponents until you got strong enough to play them again. He said today's players wont stand still for a beating like the old timers. They won't get toughend up that way and consequently they are scared to jump up and play some against strangers.

When I grew up in the pool room me and several other guys would race other to the door to play any stranger who walked in. We were scared to death of being the one who didn't make a score. Sometimes the stranger would whip our asses and we would sit around all sad talking about it but the next stranger that walked in the door would get the same treatment. We didn't bet a lot because we didn't have a lot but we all had plenty of heart.

TAP,TAP,TAP....You got it RIGHT!

 

[raise1]

What exactly are you saying? I am totally confused.

I did assume a lot because when I read the OP's story it resonates with me. So unless the OP is a stone cold hustler in the vein of Jack Cooney and he is using this forum to ply his trade electronically I tend to empathize with him because as the story reads I have been there many times.

The reason the "kid" is getting called out is because the winner is being called a nit and a hustler because he wouldn't give up a lot of weight after winning a few games and making a tiny score.

Of course I don't KNOW all the facts so I am projecting my own experiences on top of the story.

Substitute my name with the OP and the story could have gone one of these two ways, as the story went with me eking out a small score OR with me going flat off after raising the bet with me thinking the whole time I should be winning. I can guarantee you that I would have lost far more than the kid did.

Had anyone walked into the pool after getting "called" to play me and asked me for ANY weight when they had no idea who I am then I would call them a heartless nit. That's just me. When I walk into a pool room and ask to play some then I am ready to play some with no weight just to see what I can do. I played the #1 player in China 2 years ago even 9 ball, 8 ball and one pocket. I walked right by the big ass poster with him holding a huge trophy and asked him to play some. I lost a couple hundred but I didn't whine and cry like scared puppy. Now if we play nine ball I get weight. If we play one pocket we play even even though I should get a couple balls because I like the challenge.

So to me there is NO WAY that the OP is a hustler. No way he hustled the kid. The kid tried to pull a move by asking for 10:7 AFTER his pool room buddies had already clocked the OP's speed. The OP didn't bite and asked to play cheap and the kid condescended to play for fifty a game even (probably thinking he was stealing). The OP lost several games thinking he should have won them and raised the bet to the kid's original $100. Now if the kid didn't think he was stealing at that point why would he agree to play $100 even when he originally wanted 10:7?

The point is that I THINK that the games were close, the bet was irrelevant, the kid could have quit even if he didn't like the game. In no way was he hustled and to tell the OP that he hustled the kid or was somehow being a nit for not giving up weight in a relatively even game was wrong and itself nitty.

Joe Salazar told me that in the old days you matched up with someone and if they pounded on you then you came back the next day and the day after than until you started beating them or you gave up and went looking for other opponents until you got strong enough to play them again. He said today's players wont stand still for a beating like the old timers. They won't get toughend up that way and consequently they are scared to jump up and play some against strangers.

When I grew up in the pool room me and several other guys would race other to the door to play any stranger who walked in. We were scared to death of being the one who didn't make a score. Sometimes the stranger would whip our asses and we would sit around all sad talking about it but the next stranger that walked in the door would get the same treatment. We didn't bet a lot because we didn't have a lot but we all had plenty of heart.

 

[JB Cases]

What exactly are you saying? I am totally confused.

I am saying that the OP showed heart walking into a strange room to play whoever wanted to play straight up no spot for money. He isn't a top notcher and probably not even a shortstop. But he wanted a cheap game of one pocket and played for more than he wanted to play for.

I am saying that the kid had NO HEART. The OP has Heart and is 100% right that it's missing these days in most pool rooms.

 

[tksix]

Great post. The problem goes deeper than the pool world though. Our society has created a generation of "entitled" children/adults. All kids get a trophy, no grades in grammar school, everyone leases a Mercedes....... and list goes on.

All of these things have destroyed "heart" and desire. Get a D and you get in trouble at home, and you study to get an A. Get a P for pass, and you think you have accomplished something, and have nothing to strive for.

Play better players and get spanked, that's how you learn. If you don't gamble, play for lunch, table time whatever. Nothing is free in life, or just handed to you.

We are entitled to nothing, not even that huge spot while playing a champion.

Mike

 

[Bigtruck]

When I read the title I was shocked that after the Motorhome accident that Gene was now missing!!! After reading further I was relieved!

Nevermind.

Ray
(http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvx2n_genesis-land-of-confusion_music#rel-page-3)

 

[Black-Balled]

Actually, I know the kid. Shoots pretty straight but can't play a lick of 1p. He will play any road agent 10-7 though and will bet $100.

 

[Run the Century]

Something I will never forget ...

I had the opportunity to grow up in a pool hall with some some really great players (Joe Salazar and Frank Almanza were 2 of them). There was a guy there named Allen that I was really good friends with - played strong - not Joe or Franks speed but really good. There was a ton of action at this joint (Shooters in Montclaire - Southern CA in case anyone wants to know - not there anymore).

Anyhow - Allen told me something I'll never forget. He said he would play anyone 5 or 10 bucks a game that walked in (back in the 80s). His rationale was that he could beat 95% of the players out there - why not throw a couple barrels and see where things stand. In the long run you will be to the good.

 

[Black-Balled]

And the OP said that exactly- even for 5-10 bucks- not I give up 10-7 and bet $100.

Funny how it all comes back aroudn,

I had the opportunity to grow up in a pool hall with some some really great players (Joe Salazar and Frank Almanza were 2 of them). There was a guy there named Allen that I was really good friends with - played strong - not Joe or Franks speed but really good. There was a ton of action at this joint (Shooters in Montclaire - Southern CA in case anyone wants to know - not there anymore).

Anyhow - Allen told me something I'll never forget. He said he would play anyone 5 or 10 bucks a game that walked in (back in the 80s). His rationale was that he could beat 95% of the players out there - why not throw a couple barrels and see where things stand. In the long run you will be to the good.

 

[raise1]

I am saying that the OP showed heart walking into a strange room to play whoever wanted to play straight up no spot for money. He isn't a top notcher and probably not even a shortstop. But he wanted a cheap game of one pocket and played for more than he wanted to play for.

I am saying that the kid had NO HEART. The OP has Heart and is 100% right that it's missing these days in most pool rooms.

Thanks for being on point.

We are not talking about whether the OP has heart or not. That's not what this topic is about.

The topic is about whether the kid has heart or not. You think he doesn't have heart, but I think he does. Why? It's because he agreed to play a stranger a game that he obviously is not well versed at, a chess game (1-pocket) where "moving" is almost everything. The OP stated that clearly in the first post that the kid was a "poor mover". Yet, the kid still gave the roadman some actions.

 

[JB Cases]

Actually, I know the kid. Shoots pretty straight but can't play a lick of 1p. He will play any road agent 10-7 though and will bet $100.

Really? If true then that falls on the stupidity side and not the heart side. That is exactly the type of motel money score every good road running one pocket needs to have in their black book.

Because if someone really can't play one pocket then 10-7 is a nothing spot against a really good one pocket player.

 

[JB Cases]

Thanks for being on point.

We are not talking about whether the OP has heart or not. That's not what this topic is about.

The topic is about whether the kid has heart or not. You think he doesn't have heart, but I think he does. Why? It's because he agreed to play a stranger a game that he obviously is not well versed at, a chess game (1-pocket) where "moving" is almost everything. The OP stated that clearly in the first post that the kid was a "poor mover". Yet, the kid still gave the roadman some actions.

Actually I thought that it was what the topic is about, what heart is and which of them has it and which one has more of it.

The only reason the kid gave up action playing even after asking for 10-7 is that he thought he still had the best of it. Then he agreed to raise the bet being up four games at 50 because he thought he was stealing at that point. Then he didn't quit even because he thought he should still be stealing.

Or not. Maybe he does have heart, can't play a lick of one pocket, asked for 10-7 naively, decided to play any way and donate money to a stranger at a game he plays badly. If so then that's the stupid side of heart.

If I were the kid I would have said lets play some $20 one pocket if that's what the stranger was offering and used that to get a little feeling for where I stood. I would not have asked for weight and said $20 is not worth my time and insisted on $100 a game. To me that sets the wrong tone.

 

[Jaden]

Yeah....

What great post. Really enjoyed it.

I get around the country a bit nowadays and pretty much do the same thing: look for the local action room and offer to play anyone for $10 or $20 and often encountered the same scenario. Twice I have had people from a distance video or photo me with their phones because they didn't want to get out of line for $20. Few will step up and play for the love of the game, learn something, pay their dues, or just plain take their chances.

Lou Figueroa

I was up in Washington state doing some contract work for the Navy and I had chuckie holyoke's dad take a photo of me on his phone and send it around... It was funny cause I wasn't even asking for action or hiding my game... maybe that's why he did it...

While I was there I got into a little bit of action with oh I can't remember his name now... I beat him on the streamed table...

Then I went back several months later and matched up with him at Dave's, the golden ram or whatever it's called. I told him that I beat him the last time we played and then he was all butt hurt when I beat him like 7-2. He asked ME for the action and I told him I could only play one set because I had to be at work.

Damn, I can't believe I can't remember his name, it was a nick name that everyone called him, not a real name... oh well...

Jaden

 

[Black-Balled]

...The only reason the kid gave up action playing even after asking for 10-7 is that he thought he still had the best of it. Then he agreed to raise the bet being up four games at 50 because he thought he was stealing at that point. Then he didn't quit even because he thought he should still be stealing...

Or...
kid already said $100 was his comfort zone, he already takes the worst of it and bets half what he wants.

Then the World rights itself, bet gets where he wants it and then, like he knew when he started, he couldn't beat the (somewhat) mighty JonTravisTaylor.

And then he cried like a baby.

 

[cheeseroller]

How many barrels??

I agreed with policy when I was younger. I would play anybody that walked in the pool room for 5-10 a game. Usually I could not beat the strong local players or the road men that would occassionally come through, but I would finish ahead of most players.

The problem with that is I learned that many people might not be willing to lose as much as I was. I might drop 50 while they might lose only 20. And the guys you could beat regularly wouldn't lose much at all. In the long run it was a break even deal.

But I would not take back all the experience I got playing especially the better players. It really helped me improve my game.