The most perplexing prop shot ever devised

[fan-tum]

A lot of old-timers know this shot, but when you set it up on a prop bet, even good players will stand in line to try it.( By the way-it's next to impossible unless you use masse).
On the short rail put the c.b.frozen on the middle spot, a ball frozen on the two spots immediately to the right and to the left of the cue ball, so that you have 3 balls in a row frozen on the short rail-each one on a spot. Tell the shooter that all he has to do is pocket one of the balls with a draw stroke sending the cue ball into the other ball. He only needs to contact the other ball.
If you've never tried this shot, don't worry it when you can't do it. It's the most frustrating thing I've ever come across in pool.
Sorry I didn't explain it very well the first time. This is 2 days later.When i said spot I meant diamond-sorry. The 3 balls are all on a seperate diamond on the short rail-cue ball on the center diamond,2 other balls on the 2 diamonds immediately to the left and right of c.b.
I don't have the expertise to make a diagram.

 

[Flex]

Playing 9 ball today a variation of the shot you mention came up. The 8 and 9 balls were both on the rail and I was basically straight on the 8 ball, maybe 7 diamonds away. Instead of shooting it with draw, I shot it with top left, that was high inside english, and really spun the cue ball. Contacted the 8 and sent it way downtable, but the cue ball spun over and hit the 9... it rolled over to the corner and looked like it was going to hang up... but then dropped.

Are you sure shooting the shot with draw is what you really want to do?

Flex

 

[BVal]

I think you have to.

Playing 9 ball today a variation of the shot you mention came up. The 8 and 9 balls were both on the rail and I was basically straight on the 8 ball, maybe 7 diamonds away. Instead of shooting it with draw, I shot it with top left, that was high inside english, and really spun the cue ball. Contacted the 8 and sent it way downtable, but the cue ball spun over and hit the 9... it rolled over to the corner and looked like it was going to hang up... but then dropped.

Are you sure shooting the shot with draw is what you really want to do?

Flex

Shooting the shot with draw is part of the proposition.

 

[whitey2]

Bert Kinister's 10 Best Hustles

Bert Kinister's 10 Best Hustles covers this.

If "everyone's" prop shots are revealed in public...

 

[av84fun]

A lot of old-timers know this shot, but when you set it up on a prop bet, even good players will stand in line to try it.( By the way-it's next to impossible unless you use masse).
On the short rail put the c.b.frozen on the middle spot, a ball frozen on the two spots immediately to the right and to the left of the cue ball, so that you have 3 balls in a row frozen on the short rail-each one on a spot. Tell the shooter that all he has to do is pocket one of the balls with a draw stroke sending the cue ball into the other ball. He only needs to contact the other ball.
If you've never tried this shot, don't worry it when you can't do it. It's the most frustrating thing I've ever come across in pool.

I'm not sure I understand the prop. Are you saying that the shooter can pick which direction he wants to shoot and then must draw the CB into the ball behind the CB and pocket THAT ball?

Or do you mean that he can pocket the front ball and draw back to merely contact the back ball and win?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[BRKNRUN]

A lot of old-timers know this shot, but when you set it up on a prop bet, even good players will stand in line to try it.( By the way-it's next to impossible unless you use masse).
On the short rail put the c.b.frozen on the middle spot, a ball frozen on the two spots immediately to the right and to the left of the cue ball, so that you have 3 balls in a row frozen on the short rail-each one on a spot. Tell the shooter that all he has to do is pocket one of the balls with a draw stroke sending the cue ball into the other ball. He only needs to contact the other ball.
If you've never tried this shot, don't worry it when you can't do it. It's the most frustrating thing I've ever come across in pool.

That is not near as frustrating as trying this bank.

set up a OB on the long rail just past the side pocket. on the other side of the side pocket (on the same rail) set the CB about a diamond away from the corner pocket.

The object is to one rail bank the OB into the opposite side pocket......If you have never seen it done...you would bet your last dollar it could not be done.

 

[whitey2]

former

I believe he means the former, although it's not impossible to pocket both.

 

[BVal]

I'm not sure I understand the prop. Are you saying that the shooter can pick which direction he wants to shoot and then must draw the CB into the ball behind the CB and pocket THAT ball?

Or do you mean that he can pocket the front ball and draw back to merely contact the back ball and win?

Thanks,
Jim

From what I read you have to pocket one ball and draw back and just contact the other ball.

BVal

 

[Flex]

Definitely a tough shot. However, I bet Mike Massey could probably pull it off.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Tough shot. By being frozen to the rail the cueball is actually under the edge of the cushion. I think you could pocket the first ball and then draw into the second ball with a masse' and a using little inside english... sometimes... but not without some luck.

 

[Williebetmore]

Definitely a tough shot. However, I bet Mike Massey could probably pull it off.

Flex-man,
I hate to disagree, but this is not that tough once you know the trick.

Just use 2 tips of parallel, inside English; and whitey just hugs the rail right back towards you.

Now if you had to pocket that second object ball; THAT would be tough (though doable by a Mike Massey).

 

[whitey2]

I wish this was posted a month or so ago. I could have asked Mike to try it
(on a bar table) about 12 miles from me.

And we would have known!

Then, it would have been embarrassing if it took him 5 tries, and I bet him I could do it in 3 and won!

But, somehow, I think he knows the shot already though, and it would have not gone down like that.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Just use 2 tips of parallel, inside English; and whitey just hugs the rail right back towards you. ...

In that case, just put the second object ball closer to the cue ball. If the cue is jacked up, the shot is very hard except for bucket pockets.

I think this shot first appeared in Billiards Digest about 1984, if I had to guess. I would be interested to know if anyone has an earlier reference.

 

[Flex]

Flex-man,
I hate to disagree, but this is not that tough once you know the trick.

Just use 2 tips of parallel, inside English; and whitey just hugs the rail right back towards you.

Now if you had to pocket that second object ball; THAT would be tough (though doable by a Mike Massey).

Willie,

Not a problem with disagreeing with me... Heck, I got you to post how to do it!

My original idea, though unexpressed, was for Massey to pot both balls.

Flex

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Flex-man,
I hate to disagree, but this is not that tough once you know the trick.

Just use 2 tips of parallel, inside English; and whitey just hugs the rail right back towards you.

Now if you had to pocket that second object ball; THAT would be tough (though doable by a Mike Massey).

2 tips of parallel, inside English works if you can use a level cue... BUT... The prop bet was to pocket the first ball and then contact the second ball... not just hug the rail right back towards you. You can't get the cue level enough to do it like you suggest because you have to shoot over the second ball to pocket the first ball.

 

[Williebetmore]

2 tips of parallel, inside English works if you can use a level cue... BUT... The prop bet was to pocket the first ball and then contact the second ball... not just hug the rail right back towards you. You can't get the cue level enough to do it like you suggest because you have to shoot over the second ball to pocket the first ball.

Ralphie-Boy,
My estimation of the shot DID include coming back to touch the second object ball. On my 9-footer, only modest elevation is necessary. Making contact with the second ball is no problem (pocketing it would be possible but very difficult; probably would require masse'). I'd be happy to shoot that prop anytime; should be successful 80-90% of the time (way easier than even money).

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Ralphie-Boy,
My estimation of the shot DID include coming back to touch the second object ball. On my 9-footer, only modest elevation is necessary. Making contact with the second ball is no problem (pocketing it would be possible but very difficult; probably would require masse'). I'd be happy to shoot that prop anytime; should be successful 80-90% of the time (way easier than even money).

Good shot! Just how close can you move the second ball toward the cueball before you can't make it? Can you do it on a 7 footer?

 

[whitey2]

Bert Kinister was using his 7-foot table when he shot the video.

He mentioned that he is using full-profile rubber though on his table, along with tight pockets.

I don't think it is a factor for this (aforementioned) shot, but he specifically stated that some
of the other shots on that video would not be possible on a Valley, or bar table that has rounded rubber.

 

[Williebetmore]

Good shot! Just how close can you move the second ball toward the cueball before you can't make it? Can you do it on a 7 footer?

RK,
I have not experimented with ball placement, more elevation, or a 7 foot table; so I have no clue how hard it would be.

On the 9 footer, it is not a very difficult shot (you would go broke offering this proposition in Betmore's Basement). I suspect on the 7 footer (or with balls closer together) it would be more difficult; probably requiring a masse' with inside English.

 

[jimmyg]

Maybe I don't have this setup correct. I recall having the cue and object balls both on the short rail and trying to draw back to center table using low inside and a little wrist, not quite getting the right action and drawing into the opposite corner pocket.

If another object ball was on the rail behind my cue, I definitely would have hit it, who knows? maybe pocket it.

Of course I would never make that mistake today.

Jim