The most perplexing prop shot ever devised

jimmyg said:
Maybe I don't have this setup correct. ...
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How about this: freeze the cue ball on the center of the short rail. Freeze an object ball on that same short rail a diamond from the pocket. Freeze a third object ball two balls from the cue ball on the other side, so you're jacked up when drawing the first ball. Most players have a lot of trouble making the first ball and drawing back to the second ball. I think it's more or less impossible without rail-side english.
 
Bob Jewett said:
How about this: freeze the cue ball on the center of the short rail. Freeze an object ball on that same short rail a diamond from the pocket. Freeze a third object ball two balls from the cue ball on the other side, so you're jacked up when drawing the first ball. Most players have a lot of trouble making the first ball and drawing back to the second ball. I think it's more or less impossible without rail-side english.
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Hi Bob, That's very much the way that I understood it to be, with the exception of being jacked up, which may make a slight difference.

Drawing with inside (rail) english, without using some wrist to get the cue ball to jump off-line, makes it pretty standard to pocket the object ball and draw directly into the the opposite corner pocket.

Don't understand someone offering this as a WINNING proposition bet.:confused:

Jim
 
jimmyg said:
... Don't understand someone offering this as a WINNING proposition bet.:confused:

Jim
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Try the shot as I described and see how it works for you. Most players will have a real hard time.

Which reminds me of another proposition we just tried on someone a couple of days ago. Hang six balls in six pockets. The client has to make the balls in the order the operator calls. This is nearly impossible for the average pool player, but remember that the average player is about an APA 2 or lower. The trick, to the extent that there is one with this, is to place the balls in the corner pockets touching the side rail and as far into the pocket as possible. The balls by the side pockets are centered and out one ball from the pocket so it's not possible for a ball to pass between them and side rails. I watched for a while, and I don't think the client got through all six in a half-hour of trying -- just for pride. The operator can adjust the difficulty with the depth of the corner balls.

I saw one guy lose $120 at $1/try at this, and he was getting 3:1 on the money at the end of the slaughter. It is amazing how slowly some people learn at such shots. The operator let him off for half.
 
Seriously, why don't you guys use cuetable.com? Not that I don't think your descriptions are sufficient but it's SOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier to visualize what you're talking about when it's accompanied by a diagram and they really don't take long to create.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Seriously, why don't you guys use cuetable.com? Not that I don't think your descriptions are sufficient but it's SOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier to visualize what you're talking about when it's accompanied by a diagram and they really don't take long to create.
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whynotcopy.jpg
 
Bob Jewett said:
Try the shot as I described and see how it works for you. Most players will have a real hard time.

Which reminds me of another proposition we just tried on someone a couple of days ago. Hang six balls in six pockets. The client has to make the balls in the order the operator calls. This is nearly impossible for the average pool player, but remember that the average player is about an APA 2 or lower. The trick, to the extent that there is one with this, is to place the balls in the corner pockets touching the side rail and as far into the pocket as possible. The balls by the side pockets are centered and out one ball from the pocket so it's not possible for a ball to pass between them and side rails. I watched for a while, and I don't think the client got through all six in a half-hour of trying -- just for pride. The operator can adjust the difficulty with the depth of the corner balls.

I saw one guy lose $120 at $1/try at this, and he was getting 3:1 on the money at the end of the slaughter. It is amazing how slowly some people learn at such shots. The operator let him off for half.
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I'll try the first one jacked up, don't think it will take anything more than a slight adjustment...

The second one I'll probably pass on, it reminds me of when I was about ten years old, playing in the Boy's Club of NY on East Tenth Street. We would set up the fifteen balls two in front of each pocket, one on each end spot, and one in the center of the table. Idea was to see how many shots it would take to pocket all fifteen balls. At ten years old, you'd be surprised haw many it took.:rolleyes:

Last week I tried, first time, the shot where the object ball rests at the center of the short rail, and the cue rests on top of the opposite short rail, also center. Idea, of course, is to pocket the object ball directly in either corner pocket. Tried it about five time, missed it every time, but came pretty close once or twice. Another ten or twenty times and I'll probably pocket it and never try it again.:D

Thanks,

Jim
 
jimmyg said:
... Last week I tried, first time, the shot where the object ball rests at the center of the short rail, and the cue rests on top of the opposite short rail, also center. Idea, of course, is to pocket the object ball directly in either corner pocket. Tried it about five time, missed it every time, but came pretty close once or twice. Another ten or twenty times and I'll probably pocket it and never try it again.:D ...
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Mizerak was said to be 50% on this shot. Hard to bridge for, with the cue ball up on the wood (or feather strip).
 
Williebetmore said:
RK,
I have not experimented with ball placement, more elevation, or a 7 foot table; so I have no clue how hard it would be.

On the 9 footer, it is not a very difficult shot (you would go broke offering this proposition in Betmore's Basement). I suspect on the 7 footer (or with balls closer together) it would be more difficult; probably requiring a masse' with inside English.
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What brand of table do you have? On my Olhausen, which has a different rail profile than most Diamonds/Brunswicks, the shot doesn't go very often (1 or 2 in 10) and I have a pretty sporty draw stroke.

And even within brands not all rails are installed and/or kept tightened down properly so before you bet your bankroll, you better check out each particular table!

(-:
 
av84fun said:
What brand of table do you have? On my Olhausen, which has a different rail profile than most Diamonds/Brunswicks, the shot doesn't go very often (1 or 2 in 10) and I have a pretty sporty draw stroke.

And even within brands not all rails are installed and/or kept tightened down properly so before you bet your bankroll, you better check out each particular table!

(-:
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AV,
I have a 9 foot GCIV, double shimmed.

I tried the shot for about 5 minutes last night (without my pool glove or pool glasses). I could not make whitey come back to the two ball with a center ball hit even once (cue ball comes back off the rail for some reason I couldn't fathom). With one tip of inside it was close, and with 2 tips of parallel inside English I did it about 5 or 6 times in a row; didn't miss it even once (whitey just hugged the rail right back to the two ball). Did not seem hard to do at all. While I'm uncertain of my percentage, I would be happy to shoot it all day on my table at $100 a pop (I'm pretty sure the prop-meister would go broke quickly).

Thanks for the heads up on differences in equipment....I hadn't even considered that (other than the obvious difference on a bar table with the two ball interfering with the stroke).
 
Flex said:
Definitely a tough shot. However, I bet Mike Massey could probably pull it off.
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Mike could draw the cueball three cushions around the table and contact the second ball!
 
Williebetmore said:
AV,
I have a 9 foot GCIV, double shimmed.

I tried the shot for about 5 minutes last night (without my pool glove or pool glasses). I could not make whitey come back to the two ball with a center ball hit even once (cue ball comes back off the rail for some reason I couldn't fathom). With one tip of inside it was close, and with 2 tips of parallel inside English I did it about 5 or 6 times in a row; didn't miss it even once (whitey just hugged the rail right back to the two ball). Did not seem hard to do at all. While I'm uncertain of my percentage, I would be happy to shoot it all day on my table at $100 a pop (I'm pretty sure the prop-meister would go broke quickly).

Thanks for the heads up on differences in equipment....I hadn't even considered that (other than the obvious difference on a bar table with the two ball interfering with the stroke).
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Slap me around! Like a CHUMP, I was bridging in FRONT of the rear ball and so was jacked up enough that I introduced some swerve and a little jump which is why other chumps can't make the shot.

But when I finally got a CLUE, I bridged from behind the rear ball, reducing the angle of attack of the cue...used rail side and made the shot routinely.

ALMOST made the rear ball a couple of times. So the Olhausen cushion profile doesn't mean beans!

My bad.

Best,
Jim
 
Tried the shot last night on a Gold Crown.

As I thought, without the second object ball, using low inside english and a low level stroke, it's real easy to draw into the opposite corner. But, as many have said, with that second ball, and being even slightly jacked up, makes all the difference. Cue ball tends to jump off the rain regardless of how smooth it is stroked.

Not impossible, just much harder.:(

Jim
 
jimmyg said:
Tried the shot last night on a Gold Crown.

As I thought, without the second object ball, using low inside english and a low level stroke, it's real easy to draw into the opposite corner. But, as many have said, with that second ball, and being even slightly jacked up, makes all the difference. Cue ball tends to jump off the rain regardless of how smooth it is stroked.

Not impossible, just much harder.:(

Jim
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Jimmg...see my post just above. When I bridged behind the rear ball...used rail side english and JUST enough low to draw the CB only 11 inches to the rear ball, the shot goes AT LEAST 70% of the time on my Olhausen and WB's GC.

Remember, the CB can rebound almost 2.25 inches off the rail on the way back and still contact the rear OB.

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!

(-:
 
av84fun said:
Jimmg...see my post just above. When I bridged behind the rear ball...used rail side english and JUST enough low to draw the CB only 11 inches to the rear ball, the shot goes AT LEAST 70% of the time on my Olhausen and WB's GC.

Remember, the CB can rebound almost 2.25 inches off the rail on the way back and still contact the rear OB.

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!
(-:
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I'll try it as you suggest, although usually, we're trying to get "off" the rail while in this position. But, one never knows, do one?:confused:

Jim
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyg
... Last week I tried, first time, the shot where the object ball rests at the center of the short rail, and the cue rests on top of the opposite short rail, also center. Idea, of course, is to pocket the object ball directly in either corner pocket. Tried it about five time, missed it every time, but came pretty close once or twice. Another ten or twenty times and I'll probably pocket it and never try it again. ...


Bob Jewett said:
Mizerak was said to be 50% on this shot. Hard to bridge for, with the cue ball up on the wood (or feather strip).
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Tried the shot again last night on a 9' Gold Crown.

First time hit the ob too full, second time missed the ob ball entirely....but the third AND fourth times I hit it perfectly and it rolled right in the pocket, what a beautiful shot!:cool:

Now if I can only keep my own word and NEVER try it again.

Even a blind squirrel finds a acorn every now and then.:rolleyes:

Jim
 
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