The new TAR table - What do you think of it?

[jalapus logan]

I really like the table, perfect one pocket table and great for the top players to play any game on. I think these players want the guy they are playing to "make" the ball, there are times like the Mosconi Cup where players hit the ball bad and it goes anyway because the pockets are huge. It is more exciting to me because even an open table is not a sure thing, on the 4.5 or bigger pockets its almost guaranteed they are out. Watching 9 ball at tournaments has no interest to me really because of the fact its too easy for the top players, they run out 99% of the wide open tables if they have a shot. 10 ball is a much better game but the tight pockets makes it even better.

With all that being said I think its better for tournaments to have big pockets, tight pockets would slow the tournament down I believe and would be bad for TV. Since we have no TV then maybe the pockets should be tighter for us fans to really get a sweat out of each rack and players performing at a high level on tough equipment. I play on 4 inch to 4 1/4 inch pocket regularly and you really need to focus and bare down on the shots, not a fan of play rotation pool on it as I do not play to these guys level, I like 4.5 for that game when I play it, perfect size.

I'm not so sure that 10 ball is really that much "better". Again, no right or wrong opinions here, but observe the following stats provided by AZB'er Atlarge for the Breaking Stats -- Turning Stone XVII 9-Ball vs. 10-Ball:

Break-and-run games:
10-ball -- 70 of 375 (19%)
9-ball -- 40 of 184 (22%)


To me, a 3% difference in run out % does not indicate that 10 ball is, in fact, that compelling enough to make me think that it is vastly superior to standard fare 9 ball.

Breaker won the game:
10-ball -- 194 of 375 (52%)
9-ball -- 89 of 184 (48%)

To me, the above stats are perhaps even more interesting than the break and run %. Having the breaker win the game about 1/2 of the time, whether or not we're talking about 9 ball or 10 ball is a bit shocking to me. It suggests that breaking is not that large of an advantage as many think???

AtLarge observed the following: "But the (perhaps) surprising thing is, that for a fairly large sample of games played by top professionals, the breaking results are quite similar for the two games."

I don't know, but a break and run % somewhere around 20% for either 9 ball or 10 ball does not imply, at least to me, that these games are too easy for top pros.

Again, no right or wrong answer here, just some thoughts.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I'm not so sure that 10 ball is really that much "better". Again, no right or wrong opinions here, but observe the following stats provided by AZB'er Atlarge for the Breaking Stats -- Turning Stone XVII 9-Ball vs. 10-Ball:

Break-and-run games:
10-ball -- 70 of 375 (19%)
9-ball -- 40 of 184 (22%)


To me, a 3% difference in run out % does not indicate that 10 ball is, in fact, that compelling enough to make me think that it is vastly superior to standard fare 9 ball.

Breaker won the game:
10-ball -- 194 of 375 (52%)
9-ball -- 89 of 184 (48%)

To me, the above stats are perhaps even more interesting than the break and run %. Having the breaker win the game about 1/2 of the time, whether or not we're talking about 9 ball or 10 ball is a bit shocking to me. It suggests that breaking is not that large of an advantage as many think???

AtLarge observed the following: "But the (perhaps) surprising thing is, that for a fairly large sample of games played by top professionals, the breaking results are quite similar for the two games."

I don't know, but a break and run % somewhere around 20% for either 9 ball or 10 ball does not imply, at least to me, that these games are too easy for top pros.

Again, no right or wrong answer here, just some thoughts.

I did notice recently in 10 ball pros figuring out the break and especially with the magic rack, even Shane said that breaking in 9 ball was tougher. I guess when 10 ball started up it was tough with traditional racking methods but has gotten easier for those who have figured it out, I am not one of them as I do not play it enough. I still like 10 ball better as do the better players and pros it seems.

 

[jalapus logan]

I did notice recently in 10 ball pros figuring out the break and especially with the magic rack, even Shane said that breaking in 9 ball was tougher. I guess when 10 ball started up it was tough with traditional racking methods but has gotten easier for those who have figured it out, I am not one of them as I do not play it enough. I still like 10 ball better as do the better players and pros it seems.

I also have a slight bias to playing 10 ball over 9 ball. Of course, I've not figured out the break as well, nor can I run out like SVB. Now 15 ball rotation? Now we're talking...

 

[Fast Lenny]

I also have a slight bias to playing 10 ball over 9 ball. Of course, I've not figured out the break as well, nor can I run out like SVB. Now 15 ball rotation? Now we're talking...

I think we will see full rack rotation here in the US in the future, atleast I am hoping, that would be interesting.

 

[jalapus logan]

Man, you guys really have me thinking about this question - it's a good one. One poster mentioned the great safety battles on these tight tables. To my thinking, isn't it even more difficult to execute an effective safety on a looser table? Anything short of putting the cue in the freezer, and there is a shot available. Doesn't that add serious pressure and thus viewing interest?

Further, I can't speak for everyone, but a year after last year's fatboy challenge, I still remember hearing about Busty's epic run of what, 7 or 8 racks or something like that. Now that's exciting. I can't even remember the last time that I got excited about remembering some safe that I played or saw some pro play, regardless of how skillful and crafty the execution.

JCIN's comment about that ABP rep wanting sub 4" pockets? Lunacy. These ABP guys must be mad at money, imo. I think that will kill viewership and the sport. pt109's cautionary tale about Canadian snooker should raise a few eyebrows.

Lastly, on a positive note, thanks to JCIN for putting on these fine shows. And thanks to those here on AZB who enjoy civil discourse and pocket billiards.

Now, it's way after 5 pm est, and I'm quite late for my cocktail...

 

[Mr Hoppe]

I think we will see full rack rotation here in the US in the future, atleast I am hoping, that would be interesting.

and apparently on 4" pockets!!! Apparently the pros will then be happy, but I'm not so sure the fans will be...

 

[Fast Lenny]

and apparently on 4" pockets!!! Apparently the pros will then be happy, but I'm not so sure the fans will be...

The average fans that do not know what great pool is might not, but us die hards appreciate how tough it is to run out on those tight tables.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I think we will see full rack rotation here in the US in the future, atleast I am hoping, that would be interesting.

I love rotation, I would never play another game of 9 ball if there were rotation tournaments. I really hope if they ever deem 10 ball too easy, they don't move to 12 ball. Let just move straight to rotation.

 

[mnorwood]

Just a rhetorical question, but aren't two players of comprable skill required to "really work at it" to beat each other regardless of the table? Would 3.5" pockets be better? How about 6" pockets? Hell, if it's just a matter of cueing skill, why not just remove the pockets all together and have them play 3 cushion?

To me, pool is way more than just potting balls. It's about cue ball patterns, bank shots, cheating pockets for elegant shape. I worry that reducing the game to potting skill alone reduces some of the beauty of the game, at least in my opinion.

To my thinking, the Diamond Pro table with it's deep shelves offer a fair challenge to pros and a nice balance between offering up options for positional play, but yet require potting accuracy.

Note, I've not voted in this poll, as I've not been able to tune into this TAR match, but I'll probably tune in this evening and I'll see what it's like then.

Yes... But... When both players are jawing balls they wouldn't normally miss it adds to the viewing experience. There was a pocket at the Galveston world classic that everyone was hanging up balls in which added to the suspense of each match.

 

[jalapus logan]

The average fans that do not know what great pool is might not, but us die hards appreciate how tough it is to run out on those tight tables.

As a diehard fan and avid (obsessed???) player myself, I also understand how hard it is to run packages as well.

Now, I've got that drink, paid for the stream, now I just need to decide who to root for. Hmmm, svb. Wait, no, busty. Wait, no...

 

[JMuck]

I have purchased most TAR streams.I have a hard time as it is selling any of my hard core friends on reasons why they should tune into TAR.Playing on too tight tables is something that would be tough for them to imagine.They have never seen a truly tight table and if they can't see themselves possibly playing under that condition then they could care less.

Loss of connection.

 

[jalapus logan]

Yes... But... When both players are jawing balls they wouldn't normally miss it adds to the viewing experience. There was a pocket at the Galveston world classic that everyone was hanging up balls in which added to the suspense of each match.

Eh, I'd rather not watch that. But to each their own. Hell, I prefer redheads, but that doesn't make me in the majority, or right for that matter.

As an aside, I like your videos. Keep it up.

Cheers all and enjoy the match...

 

[MrSchon9]

The table is great the magic rack in my opinion is crap it makes things to easy.

 

[jalapus logan]

I have purchased most TAR streams.I have a hard time as it is selling any of my hard core friends on reasons why they should tune into TAR.Playing on too tight tables is something that would be tough for them to imagine.They have never seen a truly tight table and if they can't see themselves possibly playing under that condition then they could care less.

Loss of connection.

Good point. Also perhaps another reason that the pro game should be 8 ball? I was talking to John Brumback and he agreed with that. Gotta bridge the gap to expand the market and thus everyone's wallet...

 

[sunnyday]

You heard it on TAR interview. Both Shane and Busty likes the fact that t takes luck factor out of game.

S.G.

 

[jalapus logan]

You heard it on TAR interview. Both Shane and Busty likes the fact that t takes luck factor out of game.

S.G.

Not so sure about that. Lady luck comes when you least expect her. Further, I just heard Mark Griffin comment that the table has got into both of their heads and that both had missed shots badly.

 

[sunnyday]

Not so sure about that. Lady luck comes when you least expect her. Further, I just heard Mark Griffin comment that the table has got into both of their heads and that both had missed shots badly.

All I'm saying is that both players like it. I don't think this table is for everyone, though.

S.G.

 

[jalapus logan]

Also heard Mark mention that NO bank shots were attempted in the match? Can someone confirm this? Can't be pool without the banks...

 

[kanecalgary]

I like the idea of a pocket cut between 4.25 and 4.5. Just a little bit tighter than what we play on. TAR should have several sets of rails depending on players and what they agree to. Thank you TAR for another great event.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Also heard Mark mention that NO bank shots were attempted in the match? Can someone confirm this? Can't be pool without the banks...

That's not right. It must have been out of context. I'd say there were at least 10 bank shots attempted over the 3 days, maybe even 15.