what does it take to get to the next level? I am currently a strong B to B+ player. I feel that there are a few things that I can work on but don't feel that will get me to the next level...i.e. better safetly play, perfecting my inside english play (it's good but could use a little work, I am mostly talking on hard inside english on tough cuts). My cue ball control and shotmaking ability is my strong suit. Any help will be appreciated.
The next level...
- Thread starter wbweld0
- Start date
Well ...
How is your: (and rate yourself fairly, not inflated)
1) Banking (1,2,3,4,5 rails)
2) Same for kicking.
3) What percentage of jump shots do you make a good hit? What percentage do you make the ball?
4) Overall knowledge - logic, strategy, mental toughness.
5) How hard do you pursue the next level? Set a deadline for yourself to get to the next level? Ask the best players around what you can do to improve?
6) Learn the shots you don't know for sure.
7) Learn the safeties you don't know for sure.
thoughts to ponder: IF you had to get in good shape and increase your strength by 20% within 3-4 months, How would you go about it?
Are you a planner? Or do you just go 'off the cuff' by feel?
You have to plan, practice, execute, and measure yourself in some way.
Whatever parts of the game you execute with success the lowest percentage of the time is what you, most likely, need to work on the most.
BUT, there is an unwritten progression of knowledge in Pool, for example,
learning your banks and kicking before working on jump shots.
Before anything though, verify your basics: proper form and stroke.
If, by chance, you improve all your weak areas and are still losing, then the problem lies with your mental processes during the game, when to play safe as opposed when to go for the shot? Evaluating your opponents weak points and exploiting them. How to match-up right? How to make that 1 hard shot to win the match? How to control your emotions?
How is your: (and rate yourself fairly, not inflated)
1) Banking (1,2,3,4,5 rails)
2) Same for kicking.
3) What percentage of jump shots do you make a good hit? What percentage do you make the ball?
4) Overall knowledge - logic, strategy, mental toughness.
5) How hard do you pursue the next level? Set a deadline for yourself to get to the next level? Ask the best players around what you can do to improve?
6) Learn the shots you don't know for sure.
7) Learn the safeties you don't know for sure.
thoughts to ponder: IF you had to get in good shape and increase your strength by 20% within 3-4 months, How would you go about it?
Are you a planner? Or do you just go 'off the cuff' by feel?
You have to plan, practice, execute, and measure yourself in some way.
Whatever parts of the game you execute with success the lowest percentage of the time is what you, most likely, need to work on the most.
BUT, there is an unwritten progression of knowledge in Pool, for example,
learning your banks and kicking before working on jump shots.
Before anything though, verify your basics: proper form and stroke.
If, by chance, you improve all your weak areas and are still losing, then the problem lies with your mental processes during the game, when to play safe as opposed when to go for the shot? Evaluating your opponents weak points and exploiting them. How to match-up right? How to make that 1 hard shot to win the match? How to control your emotions?
wbweld0 said:
Stupid question. Because I don't know where I'm at, althought hey are going to put me in the A league next session. What is a B to B+ player.
I mean I hear/read this quite often, but without a good rating system it's hard to tell where anyone is nationally.
I hope this doesn't come of as a wise ass comment, but I would like to know what makes one a B toB+ player, and so on.
Pete
This is about the best interputation of the system that I have found and agree with, but everyone will have thier own Ideas to dispute thisPete said:
This is an excerpt of an article by Bob Cambell in All About Pool magazine (December, 1997) giving guidance on handicapping nine ball players in a race to seven:
D- Player
>will not run a rack
>average run is about 3 balls
>with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times
>rarely plays a successful safe
C-Player
>will probably run one rack, but usually not more than one
>avg. run is 3 to 5 balls
>with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, two out of 3 times
>mixed results when playing safe
>inning ends due to botched position, missed shot or attempting a safe.
B-Player
>Able to run 1 to 3 racks
>avg. run is 5-7 balls
>with ball in hand will get out form the 5, 2 out of 3 times
>most of the time a "B" player will play a "safety" which maybe hit easily 2 out of 3 times
>a typical inning will end with a missed shot, a fair safety, or a won game
A-Player
>will string 2 to 3 racks
>avg. ball run, 7-9
>with ball in hand, will be out from the 3 ball, 2 out of 3 times
>typical inning will end with a well executed safety or a win.
OPEN-Players
>average 8+ balls
>string racks together more than once in a match
>is a threat to run out from every ball, from every position, every inning
>typical inning will end in excellent safety or win
Most pros have run at least 150 balls in straight pool, many significantly higher, and many will run 80 balls or so fairly often.
PW92174 said:This is about the best interputation of the system that I have found and agree with, but everyone will have thier own Ideas to dispute this
This is an excerpt of an article by Bob Cambell in All About Pool magazine (December, 1997) giving guidance on handicapping nine ball players in a race to seven:
D- Player
>will not run a rack
>average run is about 3 balls
>with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times
>rarely plays a successful safe
C-Player
>will probably run one rack, but usually not more than one
>avg. run is 3 to 5 balls
>with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, two out of 3 times
>mixed results when playing safe
>inning ends due to botched position, missed shot or attempting a safe.
B-Player
>Able to run 1 to 3 racks
>avg. run is 5-7 balls
>with ball in hand will get out form the 5, 2 out of 3 times
>most of the time a "B" player will play a "safety" which maybe hit easily 2 out of 3 times
>a typical inning will end with a missed shot, a fair safety, or a won game
A-Player
>will string 2 to 3 racks
>avg. ball run, 7-9
>with ball in hand, will be out from the 3 ball, 2 out of 3 times
>typical inning will end with a well executed safety or a win.
OPEN-Players
>average 8+ balls
>string racks together more than once in a match
>is a threat to run out from every ball, from every position, every inning
>typical inning will end in excellent safety or win
Most pros have run at least 150 balls in straight pool, many significantly higher, and many will run 80 balls or so fairly often.
By this rating...I may be a little closer to a than I thought. Thanks all for replies.
Snapshot9 said:
Thanks for the reply...pretty thorough. It's not that I lose when I match up, it is just that I think that I should this or that better. Although young (31), I am pretty seasoned veteran as far as competition is concerned. I have been to the BCA Nationals for 10 years (winning the league with our team), this year will be the 11th. We have finished as high as 17th - 24th (25th - 32nd one year and 33rd - ? another) and I am one of the starting five.
PW92174 said:
PW,
Nice scale; but one glaring omission. Was he talking about performance on a bar table, a loose 9-footer, or a tight 9-footer??? Huge differences.
at my best in 94 I was the best B player on the planet or the weakest A player, there is a big jump and I never made it to a A player on a daily basis. ok here is my solution
Lessions, I started back play I started playing again and the old habits that held me back are being corrected by a pro, yes its expensive, and i will make a score to pay for it, but thats cool i like it like that.
the lay-off before the lessions helped me alot, mine was 13 years which i'm not suggesting, thats crazy but a month would be wise. then you start back "out of stroke" thus easier to retrain, my next move is gonna be a video camera of my play and then analyizing the play with my instructor.
I can see/feel the problems that i was holding me back disappear, its the best move I ever made, Gambling took my mental game to a good place, toughened me up so to speak, but after a while I could take the heat and that was that, everything I did to get better was played out, and I retired from pool for that reason and I also was burned out playing at the same level for a couple years not seeing any growth, so I stopped playing and went to the gym opened a business, but pool never left my heart. So I came back with a new plan lessions from a very strong player-I play to good to get lessions from a guy off the rail like I did when I was a D or C player.
Could the old me beat the new me? yes for now but I can see/feel/am aware of what was some of my problems I'm fresh, and I would guess in 4-6 months the old me would need the 8 ball and in a year the 7, but I'm just taking it one shot at a time, the layoff before the lessions is key. Atleast one month, do something else, clearing your mind and come back hungry.
Lessions, I started back play I started playing again and the old habits that held me back are being corrected by a pro, yes its expensive, and i will make a score to pay for it, but thats cool i like it like that.
the lay-off before the lessions helped me alot, mine was 13 years which i'm not suggesting, thats crazy but a month would be wise. then you start back "out of stroke" thus easier to retrain, my next move is gonna be a video camera of my play and then analyizing the play with my instructor.
I can see/feel the problems that i was holding me back disappear, its the best move I ever made, Gambling took my mental game to a good place, toughened me up so to speak, but after a while I could take the heat and that was that, everything I did to get better was played out, and I retired from pool for that reason and I also was burned out playing at the same level for a couple years not seeing any growth, so I stopped playing and went to the gym opened a business, but pool never left my heart. So I came back with a new plan lessions from a very strong player-I play to good to get lessions from a guy off the rail like I did when I was a D or C player.
Could the old me beat the new me? yes for now but I can see/feel/am aware of what was some of my problems I'm fresh, and I would guess in 4-6 months the old me would need the 8 ball and in a year the 7, but I'm just taking it one shot at a time, the layoff before the lessions is key. Atleast one month, do something else, clearing your mind and come back hungry.
Gregg said:
It sounds as if your runout game is fairly strong. If I've got the right idea of where you are from your posts, I would say that you probably need to work on kicking and defense (particularly kick safeties), since those are some of the chief things that really separate A players from strong B players. The other thing, which I'm choosing to mention separately because of it's tremendous importance, is the break! I'm surprised that no on has mentioned this aspect. If you are not making a ball, spreading the balls and controlling the rock on a fairly regular basis, a significant improvement in your break will bring your game up by at least a ball and possibly more!
the problem i suffered from in the past is my good days I was an A player and my bad days I was a B player, for what ever reason the difference between a good and bad day for me is huge, some days I couldnt get my body to connect with my mind, I could be in a good mood, rested, in the mood to play, everything could be right and I couldnt make a ball, other times it would be the oppsite, I would be in a bad mood, tired, what ever and played great got out everytime I was suppost to and even a few times when I wasnt I would play over my head.
I could never figure that out why the huge swings in my speed from one day to the next. any ideas? does this happen to others? we all have off days but I never seen anyone have off days as bad as I did, but here on the net there is alot more people than in a pool room, am I alone?
I could never figure that out why the huge swings in my speed from one day to the next. any ideas? does this happen to others? we all have off days but I never seen anyone have off days as bad as I did, but here on the net there is alot more people than in a pool room, am I alone?
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Of course we have bad days, we are humans!
Of course we have bad days, we are humans! Although I mostly shoot like a B/B-, I
have beaten (crushed) an A player a few times. Unfortunately, only a few times, and
sometimes have lost to a C player giving them 2 into 5 in a handicapped tournament
due to the pressure of the spot. (And 9-ball combos, etc.)
I guess I've seen the next level a few times, but it sure does take a lot of hard work to
stay there. When I beat the A player a couple times, he only got to the table twice, and
one time he played a safety and had a somewhat unlucky roll and left me a very tiny
window to the object ball. So I'm not saying that it happens a lot, but on those occasions
it would not have mattered who I was playing.
Of course we have bad days, we are humans! Although I mostly shoot like a B/B-, I
have beaten (crushed) an A player a few times. Unfortunately, only a few times, and
sometimes have lost to a C player giving them 2 into 5 in a handicapped tournament
due to the pressure of the spot. (And 9-ball combos, etc.)
I guess I've seen the next level a few times, but it sure does take a lot of hard work to
stay there. When I beat the A player a couple times, he only got to the table twice, and
one time he played a safety and had a somewhat unlucky roll and left me a very tiny
window to the object ball. So I'm not saying that it happens a lot, but on those occasions
it would not have mattered who I was playing.
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Adapted from a previous post of mine:
Although the "A" player executes the offense a little better, I believe that both a "B" player and an "A" player are fairly proficient at running out once a good opportunity is encountered. The biggest difference, though, is that an "A" player creates many more chances to run out. This is a slight oversimplicfication, but, for the most part, there are only four ways you get chances to run out at nine ball.
1. The chances that land in your lap through opponent's failure to execute
2. The chances that land in your lap due to the luck factor
3. The chances you create with your break
4. The chances you create with your moves game (defense/kicking/two-way shots/other strategic plays)
There isn't a lot you can do about #1 and #2 above, but if you tidy up your break and your moves game, you'll start to create far more chances to run out than you have in the past. Of course, you'll have to focus on your runout skills (angle management, storke selelction and stroke execution), too, but the "A" players do a far better job of creating chances to run out than "B" players.
If you want to get to "A" level, learn to CREATE opportunities to run out at the table.
Although the "A" player executes the offense a little better, I believe that both a "B" player and an "A" player are fairly proficient at running out once a good opportunity is encountered. The biggest difference, though, is that an "A" player creates many more chances to run out. This is a slight oversimplicfication, but, for the most part, there are only four ways you get chances to run out at nine ball.
1. The chances that land in your lap through opponent's failure to execute
2. The chances that land in your lap due to the luck factor
3. The chances you create with your break
4. The chances you create with your moves game (defense/kicking/two-way shots/other strategic plays)
There isn't a lot you can do about #1 and #2 above, but if you tidy up your break and your moves game, you'll start to create far more chances to run out than you have in the past. Of course, you'll have to focus on your runout skills (angle management, storke selelction and stroke execution), too, but the "A" players do a far better job of creating chances to run out than "B" players.
If you want to get to "A" level, learn to CREATE opportunities to run out at the table.
i agree you have to create ways to win to be an A player, John Morton(Rude Dog) told me that years ago, we ran around vegas playing in bars and he would awalys say"you have to find a way to win" that comes with experience and maturity, I just turned 40 and pool seems easier to me than It did when I stopped playing when I was 27, everyone peaks at different times in their lives, some guys play great for ever-buddy hall comes to mind or Efren, some guys like Kim Davenport(who I used to know and like) dosent play like he did before-no disrepect.
Fatboy said:
Almost losing an eye will sometimes do that to you.
Russ
wbweld0 said:
If you're talking about becoming an A player from a B, there's many different ways. What you really need to ask yourself is what level you really want to get to. Do you want a 1 of 3 chance at beating a moderately ranked pro or do you want to plce in 2 out of three local tournaments mostly filled with b's and a-'s with one or two A+'s? Those are two hugely big differences.
What you need to do to get to the next level should greatly depend on what ultimate level you want to achieve. If you want to go pro, then you would need to do things even more differently.
If you want to just make it to an A level, i.e. increase your average ball making two or three balls and increase your ball control and shot selection so that you can make some decent safety play, then just practicing 6-9 hours a week using some drills and mostly random play really looking at the shots and thinking about what the best shot selection would be will do it.
If you want more from your final game P.M. me and I'll give some things to work on.
The fastest way to play like an A player is to play A players, if you play someone your own speed or less you wont gain much, playing a player you know will wipe the floor with you brings incentive.. That doesnt mean to blindly walk into a deathmatch, you prepare yourself at the practice table. The more serious players, If they miss a shot, they will set it up and shoot it over and over until they are convinced that problematic shot is erased. Kicking and banking is a huge advantage, I agree, finding the right speed to leave tough shots is the key, learing the player side and the sucker side of the pockets also seperate the strong A players from the weaker B players. In in KILL mode a decent A player will know if they miss your gonna have a tough shot to deal with to get back into the game. I also agree the break is absolutely KEY in bringing up you level of play, keeping the break consistant rack after rack will bring anyones game up a notch.
GL
SPINDOKTOR
GL
SPINDOKTOR