The pendulum stroke must die!

ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Silver Member
The pendulum stroke must die. Or perhaps to be more accurate, I am moving on from a "pure" pendulum stroke for awhile. For over a year I have mostly used the pendulum stroke but have always shot better when I free wheeled and simply let my arm move naturally, shoulder, elbow, and wrist working together like they did in my peak years. Over 95% of the time since I have came back to pool I have hung with the pendulum assuming it should eventually be worth the effort. Perhaps, but I'm not reaching my goals with it. Time to at least test another approach.

The next few months should be interesting!

Hu
 
I feel your pain Hu! I go back n forth between very loose and flowing, and more of a snooker look. To be honest I play my best wide open and free wheeling, but most days I use the whole spectrum of styles for different shots. Long tough shots I'm doin the snooker thing. Spin finesse shots I'm trying to be like Efren :D

I think when I try to do one particular style for everything it never works. I guess whatever feels best is best....:confused:
 
pretty much where I am at

Gerry said:
I feel your pain Hu! I go back n forth between very loose and flowing, and more of a snooker look. To be honest I play my best wide open and free wheeling, but most days I use the whole spectrum of styles for different shots. Long tough shots I'm doin the snooker thing. Spin finesse shots I'm trying to be like Efren :D

I think when I try to do one particular style for everything it never works. I guess whatever feels best is best....:confused:
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Gerry,

I think we feel the same way. Sometimes I shoot pretty fair with a textbook pendulum stroke but balls falling or not, I feel too mechanical. When I let the elbow drop a bit I have a much smoother flowing stroke, at least as it feels to me. I'm going to shoot however I am inclined for awhile and see where my game goes. One thing I have noticed is that although I rarely play on seven footers, when I do I tend to freewheel and play far closer to my old speed on a seven footer than I play to my old speed on a nine footer using a pendulum stroke. The pendulum seems simpler and cleaner, I just can't get happy with it.

Hu
 
actually one reason I am dropping the pendulum

Klopek,

One reason I am dropping the pendulum is that I notice very few top players actually use it consistently. I needed to rebuild my game after a very long layoff so after reading all the talk about the wonders of the pendulum stroke I thought I would build my game around it. Seems to be a case of you can't teach an old dog new tricks though.


Klopek said:
Pendulum stroke must die?.

Little over dramatic dontcha think?.:)
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Naah, just right. Caught you didn't it? :D :D :D

Titles should give an idea what the thread is about and make people want to open it. Look at my hit count already.

Thanks for the tip about moving the hand back. Actually I tend to have the opposite problem wanting to grab too far back. Recent video shows that I am hitting the cue ball with my forearm very close to 90 degrees to the stick though.

Part of the reason I am building a new stroke is just for grins and the sake of experimentation and part of the reason is that I have never bought into the premise that you can lock your shoulder in the proper position for a pendulum stroke. Another issue for me is that my fingers don't open and close as freely as they once did. Working on a very straight back and forth stroke now that requires a minimum of finger movement.

Hu
 
Ah, but you haven't yet tried to LEARN the new tricks (except by yourself). Attend pool school, or work privately with Randyg or myself. THEN, you can make an objective decision on the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of the pendulum swing.:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ShootingArts said:
Seems to be a case of you can't teach an old dog new tricks though.

Hu
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Somewhat true

Scott Lee said:
Ah, but you haven't yet tried to LEARN the new tricks (except by yourself). Attend pool school, or work privately with Randyg or myself. THEN, you can make an objective decision on the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of the pendulum swing.:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Scott,

I haven't worked with you or Randy but I have spent some time with other instructors. I have also used video and some other equipment and techniques to aid in working on my stroke. Knowing precisely where I hit the cue ball every time is one reason that I am moving back to a more natural stroke for awhile. I am more consistent that way.

As I have said many times, the pendulum stroke is one way to get the job done. I also believe it is the easiest to teach and the easiest to correct if it gets off once you have mastered it. I'm in the mood to play with something else awhile, a stroke which I can also evaluate easily.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
[...]I am more consistent that way.

As I have said many times, the pendulum stroke is one way to get the job done. I also believe it is the easiest to teach and the easiest to correct if it gets off once you have mastered it. I'm in the mood to play with something else awhile, a stroke which I can also evaluate easily.
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Hu,

Like you, I strayed to the dark side and adopted a hybrid pendulum stroke - with a pendulum part and some other bits that move as well ;). It feels more "natural." You have good timing, so you will still be able to execute shots, and get into a groove. With a full-on pendulum I have a hard time free stroking and catching top gear. Overall, it's probably close to the same percentages - with the full-pendulum having less variance, but the free-wheel having bigger "highs" and longer "lows."

I also agree with you that you can use the pendulum stroke and have success, but it feels mechanical. I think you made a good move by adopting something incorporating a little pendulum-esque technique and a little more feel. Let us know if you come back to a full pendulum and why, or if you continue to evolve your "new" stroke.

Cheers,

-td
 
The pendulum stroke is evil. You think you can rely on it, and then it fails you at the last second. Just the other night, pendulum stroke and I were out for dinner. The check comes *just* at the right time when he's outside smoking and I have to pick up the tab. The nerve!
 
I fixed my problem using a short cue.. I found I was actualy more acurate with the shorter cue because I had to shorten my backswing, as I found I was drawing back way to far for me to stay consistant..


Now with my standard cue Im much more acurate and Im playing very well using the pendulum stroke..

your body position is also very important, each individual needs to be placed so that you can feel right.. I suggest moving your body around to see if that helps, but hey if all else fails, you will play better when you dont have a problematic mindset. So if moving your whole arm pleases you and you enjoy the game it could be worth a try....

we all must remember the mental game is what holds us back, I say If you can line up and stroke straight you can do it however you want.. I never try to change anything unless it is hampering your game. I instead work on the real problem.. Look at FB and his stroke, If someone would have changed him to have a traditional stroke, he may not be where he is today...

Understanding is half the battle


SPINDOKTOR
 
Thanks!

I found that similar to you, restricting my stroke improved my game. I just choked up on my 60" cue. I still don't feel natural with a pendulum though.

Hu


SPINDOKTOR said:
I fixed my problem using a short cue.. I found I was actualy more acurate with the shorter cue because I had to shorten my backswing, as I found I was drawing back way to far for me to stay consistant..


Now with my standard cue Im much more acurate and Im playing very well using the pendulum stroke..

Understanding is half the battle


SPINDOKTOR
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ShootingArts said:
I still don't feel natural with a pendulum though.

Hu
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The natural feeling can only come with serious practice. I had over 30 years of playing before I was introduced to the pendilum stroke. It took several months for it to feel natural. Now, I would have to make a conscious effort to do anything else.

The goal of a pool stroke is to move the cue forward in a straight line. The pendilum stroke is the easiest simple method to do that. Less moving parts = less things that can go wrong.

Obviously, it's your game, and you can go any direction you want. For my game, I wouldn't even consider any other kind of stroke. Once it does become natural, it is the most dependable method I have found to get the job done.

Steve
 
ShootingArts said:
The pendulum stroke must die. Or perhaps to be more accurate, I am moving on from a "pure" pendulum stroke for awhile. For over a year I have mostly used the pendulum stroke but have always shot better when I free wheeled and simply let my arm move naturally, shoulder, elbow, and wrist working together like they did in my peak years. Over 95% of the time since I have came back to pool I have hung with the pendulum assuming it should eventually be worth the effort. Perhaps, but I'm not reaching my goals with it. Time to at least test another approach.

The next few months should be interesting!

Hu
Click to expand...

Here's a contrasting experience for you:

When I'm in the zone it can be one of two ways. Either I'm freewheeling and loose or I'm a robot arm. My best zone experiences are with the robot arm - when that's working I can hit any shot and put the CB on a dime anywhere on the table. It doesn't feel as "pretty" as freewheeling, but it's more effective.

pj
chgo
 
The pendulum stroke is a beautiful thing when it is done correctly. I went to PS 2 years ago and still struggle with it. For it to work correctly you need a loose grip and it is very important to be holding the cue back far enough. Right Scott? :) It can easily break down and become a poke stroke by any of the following:

Tight grip
Tip of cue to far from cue ball at address
Forearm not at least 90 degrees with cue at address
Getting down too far on the cue

Anyone of these can constrict the stroke and make it difficult for the stroke to travel to its home position.
 
pushing two years here

Steve,

I didn't want to exaggerate but it is pushing two years here. Surgery did interrupt some of that time but the pendulum remains awkward feeling even when it is working.

I'm none too sure that the pendulum stroke is the easiest method to move the stick back and forth in a straight line. There is no way to truly lock our shoulder in the position needed so we are relying on muscle alone for that. Then the wrist and hand have to make very sophisticated movements to compensate for the sharp arc that they would normally move in with the pendulum stroke. Despite it's seeming simplicity which I once believed in I begin to suspect that there are simpler strokes than the pendulum. That is a real part of the reason for a few months experimentation.

Consider three mechanical arms, one bending only at the elbow, one bending only at the shoulder and one bending at both. The one bending at both Will need far less correction at the end of that arm(in the hand and wrist) to move back and forth in a straight line. Which is really the simplest stroke to execute in mechanical terms? I'm not debating the easiest to teach and critique, the pendulum wins that hands down. I am starting to doubt that it is the simplest to execute. Making the ball in a pocket is a tiny part of the equation for me with cue ball control being of primary interest. For that I am starting to think that a stroke with a more natural motion may offer more touch and feel than a pendulum stroke and that is what I am after.

Hu



pooltchr said:
The natural feeling can only come with serious practice. I had over 30 years of playing before I was introduced to the pendilum stroke. It took several months for it to feel natural. Now, I would have to make a conscious effort to do anything else.

The goal of a pool stroke is to move the cue forward in a straight line. The pendilum stroke is the easiest simple method to do that. Less moving parts = less things that can go wrong.

Obviously, it's your game, and you can go any direction you want. For my game, I wouldn't even consider any other kind of stroke. Once it does become natural, it is the most dependable method I have found to get the job done.

Steve
Click to expand...
 
Hu:
...the wrist and hand have to make very sophisticated movements to compensate for the sharp arc that they would normally move in with the pendulum stroke.
Click to expand...

If you set up so your tip is at the cue ball when your arm is at the bottom of its arc, you'll hit the CB while the stick is traveling straight and level - no need to change the arc of your pendulum swing.

pj
chgo
 
try it

Patrick Johnson said:
If you set up so your tip is at the cue ball when your arm is at the bottom of its arc, you'll hit the CB while the stick is traveling straight and level - no need to change the arc of your pendulum swing.

pj
chgo
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Lock the cue stick in your hand. Lock your wrist. Try to execute a pendulum swing. Any more debate about the need to modify a pendulum swing's motion before reaching the cue?

Hu
 
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