The Positive Side of Aiming Systems

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
With all of the derision of aiming systems, I thought it might be nice to discuss the positive side of them. Keep in mind, that this is my own personal opinion based upon my experiences and the experiences of others whom I have personally seen, utilize aiming systems.

This thread isn't designed to discuss how aiming systems work, simply that they do work and in many cases, work well.

I have witnessed friends, strangers and acquaintances that have used aiming systems to change their level of play and for the most part, to the good. This alone makes aiming systems extremely valuable to the pool community.

There are several reasons for utilizing aiming systems and hopefully I will cover many of them and some of you will be interested in adding to my list.

It is my belief that aiming systems can be utilized to improve all levels of player's skill. I have seen people who couldn't make three balls in a row, immediately start running a half dozen balls after getting an aiming system under their belt. After learning aiming systems, I have also seen professional pool players extend their already superior prowess on the table to capture first place in professional competition. And yes, that is documented.

For many years I have snubbed most of the traditional aiming systems, although I believe that everyone uses some sort of aiming system. Some people simply call their aiming system "feel"? It is my opinion that most of the professional pool players utilize "feel" to accomplish the highest level of play.

Aiming systems like Hal Houle's CTE, Ron Vitello's 90/90 and Stan Shuffett's Pro One Aiming System can substantially improve one?s level of play depending upon their level of play and of course their willingness to learn the systems.

There are other important reasons that aiming systems should be used and one of the most overlooked reasons is FUN. When a person is shown an aiming system and they can immediately make a shot that they always had difficulty with, it can bring a glowing smile to their face and their renewed interest in pool is a good thing for all parties concerned.

I have observed that different individuals have greater and lesser needs for aiming systems. We aren't all geared alike and these aiming systems can assist us in "getting in the ball park" faster than any other method.

Unlike some, I don't feel that learning an aiming system has to inhibit your ability to learn how to play at an extremely high level. It can actually assist you in improving your level of play FAR FASTER THAN HITTING A MILLION BALLS.

For myself, as I mentioned earlier, I snubbed most "official" aiming systems for the traditional ghost ball are contact point to contact point method of aiming. These too also require "feel" in order to excel at them. The reason I snubbed these aiming systems is that I had never found anyone who used the aiming systems who could actually play better than me. I didn?t want to spend the time learning how to shoot a different way if it wasn't going to help me shoot better than I already did.

As I have changed my goal of winning money from any bloke that was willing to gamble with me to improving my game, I decided that I would explore aiming systems. FTR, I am still doing that. For me, the aiming systems are a fun thing to do and they can be extremely effective in helping you play better pool. Like anything else, you get out of something, what you put into it.

I have noticed that with the Pro One Aiming System, and utilizing CTE, that I am able to more perfectly align my body (feet, eyes and bridge hand). Alignment is a key factor in high level play. Some of these aiming systems at least for me give me a foundation upon which to build my pre-shot routine. It is also my opinion that an aiming system without a well-rounded understanding of the basic fundamentals is a house made of cards which is subject to collapse at any time. The precision of stroke and the precision of alignment cannot be overrated. They are the keys to the highest level of consistent play.

For people who have trouble visualizing the aiming line, aiming systems will get them into the ball park fast. While they are learning to perfect their pre-shot routine, the aiming systems will help them have fun pocketing balls. If you coordinate aiming systems with good sound fundamentals and yes, hitting lots of balls, I think you will have the best all around game.

Another thing about aiming systems is when I am tired, I like to utilize one or more of the aiming systems I have learned to back me up and/or give me additional focus and confidence. I utilize Pro One Aiming System and it has gotten to the point now where I don't normally consciously think about it at all. I am not that close to Stan Shuffett's official school so I will have to rely on future lessons when he and I are available. I won?t be turning my nose up at anything RonV has to say either. Hal Houle will always remain one of my dearest long distance friends.
I would like to thank all of the people who teach aiming systems and while I don?t think they are the secret to highest level of play, they will get you on the right track, faster than anything else. On top of that you'll have fun learning something new.

I'd start another poll about people who have learned one of the aiming systems to ask if their level of play had increased, stayed the same or gotten worse but I already know the answer and by now so do you. I think most of you are "polled out" on my polls but encourage everyone to go to the source and try to learn an aiming system no matter who teaches it. If you want to learn how they work, go to the source and avoid trying to learn from a student.

For those of you who have learned an aiming system, I would be interested in hearing how they have positively impacted your game.

Best regards,
JoeyA
 
Very well written post Joey!! I'd like to visit Stan Shuffet myself but he's a 10 hour drive from me.
 
Good post, thanks. I stink - high run in 14.1 is 13, and I practice quite a bit. After looking at the other aiming thread this morning and watching spiderwebcom's video, I spent a bit of time trying 90/90, and it seems to be working well for me. I'll be practicing this method further.
 
Randy9Ball said:
Very well written post Joey!! I'd like to visit Stan Shuffet myself but he's a 10 hour drive from me.
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Thanks Randy. I think most of his scheduled classes are weekdays but occasionally I think he has a weekend free when Landon is not playing in a tournament. He's a devoted father and an accomplished pool player to boot.

Randy I don't know of any that has been disappointed with Stan's
pool School. I will be finding a way to get another lesson from Stan for sure. Besides having excellent communication skillls, excellent pool knowledge, fantastic pool skills, he is a very nice guy. You'll enjoy your time with him and come away with knowledge and skills that will make you a better player.

JoeyA
 
Aiming systems enable me to accurately build in alignment/aim into my pre-shot routine.

People ask, "Why do I need an aiming system when I play well anyways?"

I think the answer is aiming systems eliminate variation in your pre-shot routine. Who can say that's a bad thing?
 
Originally Posted by unknownpro
"For sure I will sometimes NEED to adjust my stance, you will sometimes get down in the wrong place. When practicing at a fast tempo, I don't allow myself to adjust, just miss the ball and re-rack. When "grinding" at a slow tempo pressuring yourself to make every ball, you should get back up. That's not the way I prefer to play or practice. Adjusting, or getting back up will not teach you to do it right the first time. Missing and reracking will teach you to pay more attention and come up with an exact line of aim that works with your english before getting down.

Limiting yourself to one practice stroke and hit will limit your adjustment time and make you focus on getting in the right place the first time. But again, this is for very high level players that actually aim their tip on all shots, even when using english. Very few and far between."

_________________________________________________________________________________________

I've been working on the "system" advocated by unknownPro (see above), which amounts to; line up the shot carefully while up, get down, take one practice stroke and shoot.... no horizontal adjustments while down. Shoot what you see or get up.

I'm amazed at how well I can aim while up. I never knew I could see the shot that well, from a standing position. I was convinced I had to get real low to see the shot but I was wrong.

I'm especially amazed at how well the "unconscious" shoots the shots. I consciously look at the line while up and then get down. No more aiming. The body lines up automatically and the auto-pilot aims the shot. I don't aim anything consciously. When practicing thusly I often don't even look at the ob.

While up I hold the cue up at about a 45 degree angle and cover the cb and the ob with it... aiming straight on, full face at the o,b like I'm going to hit it full face... straight on. While holding the cue up like that, covering both the cb and the ob, I look at the line from the ob to the target and I see that line. I see that line much more clearly when I hold the cue up like that. I hold that sight for a couple of seconds, maybe 3 to 5 seconds, and then get down. The auto-pilot does the rest. I take one practice stroke and shoot and it's ON most of the time.

That's how I've been practicing. When playing I'll take more than the one practice stroke making sure I'm ON and am hitting the target on the side of the pocket that I want. If I'm missing the pocket I get back up and start over.

I should add that about 6or 8 years ago I talked on the phone with Hal. He says that the version of his CTE system that I sometimes use is wrong but I do sometimes use it... when I can't see the line.
 
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JimS said:
Originally Posted by unknownpro
"For sure I will sometimes NEED to adjust my stance, you will sometimes get down in the wrong place. When practicing at a fast tempo, I don't allow myself to adjust, just miss the ball and re-rack. When "grinding" at a slow tempo pressuring yourself to make every ball, you should get back up. That's not the way I prefer to play or practice. Adjusting, or getting back up will not teach you to do it right the first time. Missing and reracking will teach you to pay more attention and come up with an exact line of aim that works with your english before getting down.

Limiting yourself to one practice stroke and hit will limit your adjustment time and make you focus on getting in the right place the first time. But again, this is for very high level players that actually aim their tip on all shots, even when using english. Very few and far between."

_________________________________________________________________________________________

I've been working on the "system" advocated by unknownPro (see above), which amounts to; line up the shot carefully while up, get down, take one practice stroke and shoot.... no horizontal adjustments while down. Shoot what you see or get up.

I'm amazed at how well I can aim while up. I never knew I could see the shot that well, from a standing position. I was convinced I had to get real low to see the shot but I was wrong.

I'm especially amazed at how well the "unconscious" shoots the shots. I consciously look at the line while up and then get down. No more aiming. The body lines up automatically and the auto-pilot aims the shot. I don't aim anything consciously. When practicing thusly I often don't even look at the ob.

While up I hold the cue up at about a 45 degree angle and cover the cb and the ob with it... aiming straight on, full face at the o,b like I'm going to hit it full face... straight on. While holding the cue up like that, covering both the cb and the ob, I look at the line from the ob to the target and I see that line. I see that line much more clearly when I hold the cue up like that. I hold that sight for a couple of seconds, maybe 3 to 5 seconds, and then get down. The auto-pilot does the rest. I take one practice stroke and shoot and it's ON most of the time.

That's how I've been practicing. When playing I'll take more than the one practice stroke making sure I'm ON and am hitting the target on the side of the pocket that I want. If I'm missing the pocket I get back up and start over.

I should add that about 6or 8 years ago I talked on the phone with Hal. He says that the version of his CTE system that I sometimes use is wrong but I do sometimes use it... when I can't see the line.
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I think most of the balls that I miss are missed because of an errant stroke. I have tried shooting quickly and not adjusting after I get down on the shot. Hell, I've probably tried practically every technique I've ever read if even for a short time.

I have been particularly impressed with some of the professional level player's EXTREMELY SLOW play. Often it seems like they cannot miss but the same thing seems to happen when some of the champions shoot VERY QUICKLY.

Right now, I am trying to improve the straigtness of my stroke by paying more attention to how much wobble if any, it has.

Auto pilot is the ultimate in playing well for sure, just as long as the balls are going in the hole. If they aren't going in the hole you have to fix whatever is going wrong.

Nice thoughts.

JoeyA
 
I agree Joey.

My theory on this is that an aiming system that works does so because it puts the person and the cue into the ONE correct line to make the ball.

No matter how you break it down there is only ONE CORRECT line to make the shot. That line can have some small variance depending on pocket size but not very much.

So an aiming system forces the player to line up correctly.

I was lambasted on the RSB forum for becoming a "houligan". I became one not by choice. I was invited to meet Hal by Bob Johnson in Denver.

I didn't even know who Hal was. I had avoided all the "aiming system" and "Hal" threads because I thought that I knew how to aim (after all I READ Byrne's book) and because I didn't want to be involved in the raging debates about the subject.

I met this old guy who presents me with a printout of a post I made where I said something about Johnny Archer putting his stick a few inches in front of the object ball to visualize the "ghost ball". I was repeating something I had read in one of the billiard magazine. Hal apparently didn't like what I had to say and actually printed the post out to confront me with.

Well anyway I went to meet him with no expectation and mostly just to be courteous to Bob.

Immediately Hal starts showing me all kinds of aiming systems, and he is pocketing balls effortlessly, banking them effortlessly. I try them and can't grasp what he is saying. Half of me is wanting to be gone. Anyway, about ten minutes or so into it he shows me one that I sort of get and I start making balls easily. Shots that I previously had trouble with and were inconsistent are now falling with ease.

I am kind of freaking out because I don't really understand WHY the balls are going in. I am following directions but I don't know WHY it works. It just does.

I go home and start practicing this on my table, same thing, firing balls in from every angle. Then I go to the weekly tournament at the bar. And here is the kicker!!!!!

The woman who owns the bar Mel (Melanie) is a 3 at best. Her boyfriend is a 4-5 (APA). I show Mel the system that I learned from Hal and now SHE is firing balls in from everywhere. Then I show her boyfriend and now HE is firing balls in from everywhere. I couldn't believe it. Now I am really convinced even though I still don't know WHY it works.

Over the next several weeks I convey my excitement on RSB only to get lambasted for it.

Still though, over the years I have shown some of Hal's systems to many people and almost all of them have improved and been really grateful for it.

The thing is that I thought a lot about why they work and the only thing I can come up with is that they force the player to be on the right line to make the shot. I found out later that using ghost ball I had been lining up a little to the left of where I was supposed to.

I always thought I was right on line. It looked "right", it felt "right" but I still missed a lot. Some shots were really low percentage.

Then along comes an aiming system with Hal and now I am making shots easily. Of course I have to retrain my brain to do this consistently. Now, most of the time I can just step into the right line. I "see" it almost subconciously. But, like Joey I use the systems as fall backs when things aren't feeling right and using them conciously forces me to focus and gets me back in stroke.

Of course Hal Houle is completely validated now. Back then 8-10 years ago he was regarded as a kook. Now however it is clear that there are many such systems which work and highly regarded BCA Master instructors teach them.

The debate about them won't end however because they remove some of the romance that accompanies pool. We would all love to believe that pool is just about hitting a million balls until you are good enough to go pro. We like to think that all that ability is purely natural with no "assistance". But the facts are that a lot of these systems have been around for 150 years because someone back then thought about it and developed them. Many old timers can recall having learned many of these as young men.

Now, we are fortunate enough to see a revival of system based teaching. And it's even somewhat overwhelming as there are now many different ones advocated by different people.

The net effect is that the more people who take this opportunity to learn how to aim, or better said in my opinion, how to line up, will save themselves a lot of practice time and be able to focus on other aspects of the game such as speed control, kisses and caroms, stroke dynamics, and precisely striking the cueball.

That's why aiming, banking, and kicking systems are important to me. They free me up to focus on the rest of my game. (now I just need a time system so that I have time to play the game).
 
For me, I've been plagued for years on a couple of back cut type of shots that I just can't see. I would swear that I see the "ghost ball" correctly, and not even be close. Upon learning one of the aiming systems, my make percentage increased so much, there was no comparison, considering my make percentage was close to zero ;)

And then theres the firm inside or outside english strokes. Without an aiming system, I'd be "guessing by feel," and then trusting my guess. And there's no confidence in trusting my guess. With the systems, I can fire away with more confidence. And even if I missed, I can use the system as a reference: I did this, and it did that. Click to the next notch.

Fred <~~~ thinks there are only so many usable notches
 
Randy9Ball said:
Very well written post Joey!! I'd like to visit Stan Shuffet myself but he's a 10 hour drive from me.
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Randy,
I am 10 hours from Stan also, but was able to find a weekend that he is going to be available. The hard part was convincing the wife that it will be a fun road trip and she can scrap book all day while I go and learn from Stan. I guess we all have a little hustler in us!!! I have been playing about 2 years and play decent (I normally win a small tourney of about 15 - 20 players in my area every other time), and currently don't use any aiming system. I can't wait to go to Kentucky and learn Pro One from the master himself. I will let you know how it goes (with the aiming system and the wife - LOL).

Razorback Randy
 
I have never told anyone about this, but here goes.

The year was 2002. I had just starting playing pool the year before, and I was addicted!!! I read about Hal Houle's aiming systems on RSB, but I had no clue what they were about. I remember calling Hal one afternoon while I was at my fraternity house at school. He started his well-known spiel about systems, and then asked me if I had a table around. I walked downstairs and started shooting a few shots, ONE-HANDED, using his guidance. I couldn't believe it, I started making everything I shot at, all one-handed, in front of at least 6-8 people. They weren't pool players, but they did notice these obscene banks going in, time and time again.

Hal and I talked a bit more, and I said I'd probably call him again, but sadly that hasn't happened. From that day on, I knew these type of systems were real. I never did incorporate them into my game the way I had hoped...that might explain why I'm at my current level of play. I have always shot by feel and never had problems finding the contact points. I also felt funny using systems in front of others. Maybe I'll spend the needed time to work it out and add them to my game.

One day I'll call on Hal again, and/or meet up with Stan.
 
Learning with an open mind.

I want to thank all of the Positive Minded people who have posted Aiming Systems that have in some fashion helped the majority of we Pool Enthusiasts. You nay-sayers can stay in the shadows of your personal cells of the same way-same results interests. Thats your belief and I certainly have no reason to question your decisions.
I have found that the System provided by av84fun showing how to aim dependent of where the Diamonds lie has helped me the most. However, I have also adapted some of the methods that Houle and Ron V. have shared with Spidey who has then helped us. I still shoot a large percentage of my shots strictly through learned play but when doubt comes to mind then I resort quickly to one of the above methods. I almost always use an Aiming System when I'm Banking and my game has gained a lot from that. I also have been helped by Joe Tuckers little "goal posts" Third Eye gizmo that always quickly brings me back to center stroke.
I look forward to Systems and Suggestions that are posted on this Forum and I have totally quit reading the negative posts because they are of no help to me as a learning tool. I quickly find out if I can't adapt to a new suggestion but I do not want to read someone else's thoughts as to why it's impossible for a Bumble Bee to fly (and they show proof) when I can figure it out myself with a little sweat and realize the thrill of discovery of the methods that do work for me.
 
Razorback Randy said:
Randy,
I am 10 hours from Stan also, but was able to find a weekend that he is going to be available. The hard part was convincing the wife that it will be a fun road trip and she can scrap book all day while I go and learn from Stan. I guess we all have a little hustler in us!!! I have been playing about 2 years and play decent (I normally win a small tourney of about 15 - 20 players in my area every other time), and currently don't use any aiming system. I can't wait to go to Kentucky and learn Pro One from the master himself. I will let you know how it goes (with the aiming system and the wife - LOL).

Razorback Randy
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Razorback,

Please do let me know how it goes if you make the trip. I have the same problem with my wife too LOL.

Thanks,

Randy
 
Hal, RonV and Stan have all contributed to my game more than I can put into words. I make balls consistently I never made prior to this information.

I KNOW aiming threads go on tilt and I'm partially to blame. For this I'm sorry because I'm sure it turns off a lot of readers, but if I didn't - it'd be really unbalanced.

There are clearly two groups of people in pool: systemers and non-systemers. Neither group is right or wrong as far as what the proper way to play is... it's all personal preference.

The positive things, in my personal opinion far outweigh the negatives. As a student of the game, wouldn't you want to learn all of the systems you can? You never know what might help you win a game.

We get so caught up, me included, on the pebbles, we never cross the mountains. At the peak of the mountains for many people is the ability to greatly reduce the learning curve in pocketing balls (from decades to a fraction of that).

If a system helps a regular joe pocket balls consistently in a fraction of the time, that's the positive side of any aiming system.
 
BHE, or Aim & Pivot, which is really an aiming system for using English is something I use very often and has greatly assisted me in becoming confident in playing a wide range of shots with english where I would have avoided those shots before. It can be a very powerful system.

I also found CTE to be a very strong reference point and hence a strong way to visualize the required potting line, especially on 3/4 to 1/4 ball cuts. Though I wouldn't call that a system. At least the way that I use it and found it useful.

Coriolis' system for masse aiming has also been very useful.

Colin - <- Not a system naysayer, a system investigator.
 
Colin Colenso said:
BHE, or Aim & Pivot, which is really an aiming system for using English is something I use very often and has greatly assisted me in becoming confident in playing a wide range of shots with english where I would have avoided those shots before. It can be a very powerful system.

I also found CTE to be a very strong reference point and hence a strong way to visualize the required potting line, especially on 3/4 to 1/4 ball cuts. Though I wouldn't call that a system. At least the way that I use it and found it useful.

Coriolis' system for masse aiming has also been very useful.

Colin - <- Not a system naysayer, a system investigator.
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I've learned a lot from your BHE system. I'm not a system yay-sayer blindly, I like the term system investigator. For those who haven't checked it out, Colenso's BHE video is a must-see on Youtube.
 
I am one that has given up on trying to learn new systems via the forum. The reason is that the explanation of how it works along with questions about how to actually do the shots has become lost among the posts that argue whether the system is mathmaticaly possible.

I don't give a sh!t about whether the math is right. I just want instructions on how to use it and I'll decide whether it works for me. I just wish people would do their "investigating" (I call it plain ole arguing!) via email, or anywhere other than in the instruction thread and thereby ruining a thread that could be very useful to at least this one pool player who works very hard at learning how to better pot balls.

Now... Can anyone give me RonV's phone number? I'm confident I'll be able to get instructions from him that won't be bothered with PJ insisting it's a waste of time. (now PJ will argue he never called anything a waste of time but that is the end product of everything he posts about any and all systems and, PJ, I really wish you'd just stfu... as regards aiming system threads, and let us fools try them out.)

Maybe we need a new forum... "Aiming System Investigations". When a guy feels the need to flex his math muscles he can go "investigate" his a$$ off :groucho:

Ok. Rant over (that had been building for a WHILE) :groucho:
 
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