JimS said:
RonV:
917.656.7189
The Positive Side of Aiming Systems
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
RonV:
917.656.7189
Let all of the people who use aiming systems keep in mind, that the people on the other side don't enjoy being admonished. So let's keep the criticizing of anyone to a minimum. No need to get another argument started.
I am impressed by the thoughts of those of you who utilize aiming systems. Back in the day of RSB, I remember when you and others were criticized for being "Houligans", John. It wasn't pretty but you have made out all right and am glad to see your insightful post.
All of the rest of you who have posted or who are going to post, you have my appreciation. I think it would behoove anyone who is thinking about using aiming systems to read what all of the posters have said. None of them have said that aiming systems are the holy grail. (They aren't). But there are more reasons to use aiming systems and far fewer reasons not to.
Even some of the "academia" on the forum have expressed positive use of aiming systems. I'm not trying to win anyone over but I want to make sure that those of you who are on the fence trying to decide if you want to go down this road, there are plenty of good reasons to do so.
Best Regards,
JoeyA
I am impressed by the thoughts of those of you who utilize aiming systems. Back in the day of RSB, I remember when you and others were criticized for being "Houligans", John. It wasn't pretty but you have made out all right and am glad to see your insightful post.
All of the rest of you who have posted or who are going to post, you have my appreciation. I think it would behoove anyone who is thinking about using aiming systems to read what all of the posters have said. None of them have said that aiming systems are the holy grail. (They aren't). But there are more reasons to use aiming systems and far fewer reasons not to.
Even some of the "academia" on the forum have expressed positive use of aiming systems. I'm not trying to win anyone over but I want to make sure that those of you who are on the fence trying to decide if you want to go down this road, there are plenty of good reasons to do so.
Best Regards,
JoeyA
..just for laughs...
A few days ago, I called Stan Shuffett to ask him about his Pro One aiming system, and specifically if it incorporated the use of englisn into it. He told me, to my surprise, that it was especially a system for shooting with center ball. He did say however that once the correct aim line is obtained that spinning the balls would work as well as with other aiming methods, or something in that vein.
He said it is easy to learn, and easy to teach, and that in 5 hours it can be taught. He suggested that I go for the full fundamentals course he offers, which incorporates the Pro One stuff.
Just reading the various posts regarding Ron V's system, as well as the information about Hal Houle's systems, and the little I know about Stan's, has helped me figure out a heck of a lot of ways to pot balls that I had the dickens with before.
What I've come up with, for myself, incorporates many ideas that I read about on AZ.
I tried to show a bit of it to a friend the other day, with a very simple cut shot, and even though I explained it to him just fine, when he shot the shot he jerked his cue to the left and really missed an easy ball. Why did he miss it? His stroke wasn't straight and pure. The ball was practically a hanger, but he messed it up all the same. Turns out this friend doesn't have the patience to learn what should be a very simple way to aim a pretty easy shot. He goes by feel, and makes his share of balls, but misses just as many.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that those who go for the systems approach are more analytical, while those who rely on feel are more intuitive.
I think both are necessary.
JoeyA, thanks for starting this thread. If the AZ Rep Monster would let me give you some more Rep, it would be headed your way right now.
Flex
He said it is easy to learn, and easy to teach, and that in 5 hours it can be taught. He suggested that I go for the full fundamentals course he offers, which incorporates the Pro One stuff.
Just reading the various posts regarding Ron V's system, as well as the information about Hal Houle's systems, and the little I know about Stan's, has helped me figure out a heck of a lot of ways to pot balls that I had the dickens with before.
What I've come up with, for myself, incorporates many ideas that I read about on AZ.
I tried to show a bit of it to a friend the other day, with a very simple cut shot, and even though I explained it to him just fine, when he shot the shot he jerked his cue to the left and really missed an easy ball. Why did he miss it? His stroke wasn't straight and pure. The ball was practically a hanger, but he messed it up all the same. Turns out this friend doesn't have the patience to learn what should be a very simple way to aim a pretty easy shot. He goes by feel, and makes his share of balls, but misses just as many.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that those who go for the systems approach are more analytical, while those who rely on feel are more intuitive.
I think both are necessary.
JoeyA, thanks for starting this thread. If the AZ Rep Monster would let me give you some more Rep, it would be headed your way right now.
Flex
SpiderWebComm said:
I was just about to send Dave a PM about how I agree with this post, and CTE systems, and I figured I should just do it here.
I'm not going to admit that I pretend to know it all, but it seems the way I aim is VERY much like he explained CTE to me at the Million $$$ event this Summer. I have mostly taught myself, along with reading what I can get my hands on.
The Pre-shot routine for me is THE most important factor in playing well. When I am thinkning well, and using the pre-shot...I am in dead pop.
G.
SpiderWebComm said:
..just for laughs...
I'm sorry but every time I see that photo it angers me to the point of wishing I could have been there to swing a grand slam roundhouse Louieville slugger across that as#$holes face. Look at that poor frightened to death child. How much terror could a human child display before that as#$$%hole realized what he was. Piece of $h#$$.
I see nothing humorous in that photo. The humor would be seeing that child back on the ground and that idiots teeth crushed to dust.
end of MY RANT
JB Cases said:My game went up two balls when I learned Hal's aiming system. That made it much easier for the people who were three balls better than me to get my money
What does it mean when someone says their game went up two balls? Does that mean you consistently run two more balls per run in 9 ball? Or that you do the same in 14.1, or one pocket?
Or is it just a way of saying your game really improved?
Flex
I got Joe Tuckers Aim By the numbers and that helped me start seeing lines and getting a reference in my aim. This was a good system, I saw a definite improvement in making balls. This was my first system.
I learned CTE from Stan Shuffett, he taught me the system durning the foundation class class. I made more balls than I did before. Later after the class Stan called and gave some details on his new system Pro One which were an improvement to the basic CTE. I made more balls than I did before.
Aiming systems help alot.
I learned CTE from Stan Shuffett, he taught me the system durning the foundation class class. I made more balls than I did before. Later after the class Stan called and gave some details on his new system Pro One which were an improvement to the basic CTE. I made more balls than I did before.
Aiming systems help alot.
JimS said:
I saw your apology in a later post - no problem. But since you brought it up, I have this response:
A lot of noise is created when the subject of aiming systems comes up, but the noise doesn't hide any useful instruction - the noise hides the fact that no useful instruction is ever offered, despite being requested time and again by the very people you say drown it out. In fact, the noise happens because no useful instruction is ever offered. All we ever get is "It works great! Go get a lesson!" and "I'm not telling you anything because it's proprietary."
Maybe it's just me, but I think "Works great; here's a phone number!" is promotional, not instructional. There's nothing wrong with promoting aiming systems on here, but you're wrong about the "instructions" being drowned out - the people you criticize are the ones trying hardest to get them posted here.
Like I said, since you brought it up...
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
No one gets a chance to describe them before the aiming police calls foul and says they're geometrically unreliable. Then, tempers flare and the caca hits the fan, usually. I'm not naming any names-- I just think that's what happens.
Let's not hijack Joey's thread. PJ--- what are some positive thoughts that come to mind when you think about aiming systems?
I have one observation.
Places where you get real detailed discussions about aiming systems are on boards such as this where most posters are players from US.
I visited some European pool forums, UK 9ball pool forums, even snooker forums...and I have never read such detailed discussions about aiming. In fact, I couldn't find much discussion about it at all. Can't explain this...
Places where you get real detailed discussions about aiming systems are on boards such as this where most posters are players from US.
I visited some European pool forums, UK 9ball pool forums, even snooker forums...and I have never read such detailed discussions about aiming. In fact, I couldn't find much discussion about it at all. Can't explain this...
PJ, I thought the videos and diagram illustrations provided by cleary were very useful to someone new to Ron's aiming technique. The instructions in the video was pretty clear and the concept of pivoting the body was well illustrated. Somehow, when information are free people tend to preceive them as having no value so charging for the information will probably make more sense IMO even though Ron is giving them out free. It's unfortunate to most Azer to not have seem the other parts of his system.
As with everything new, you can't just jam all the information down someone new and expect them to pick it up. We have players at all different levels on this site so I think consideration needs to be taken into account for new players.
I wish everyone could have just ignored PJ's first post in the other thread (it was frankly just plain rude (More like a slap in the face) IMO) and moved on to let the other lessons out of the bag. So hopefully, cleary and Ronv can continue with their posts for other to review this system and judge for themselves if the system will work for them.
One of the biggest positive of aiming system as some have already mention is improve confidence that you have a way to correctly determine your line of aim and improve your ability to pocket the ball. I have develop throught practice with this aiming system some common shots that I'm very comfortable shooting just because I know my brain knows what to do to make the shot each time. For me, I found the system to be very effective in disecting why I have problem with certain shots when shooting with feels. So really, the confidence is derived from having more systematic process to determine my line of aim and improved percentage for making my shots in practice. Memory..Memory is still a big factor...that why practicing the shot is so important...because once you know how to make the shot..the brain take over and really does it for you.
The biggest problem with shooting with feel is there isn't really any defined steps that you follow. If you shoot the shot a thousand times..the brain just does all the adjustment for you....but when the pressure is on...the system goes out of whack and you chock. If you have a system in place to make the shot, I think the brain is better able to cope under pressure. That's why the fundamental is so important...stand, stroke, bridge hand..etc..are just systematic steps that the brainer factor in to make the shot. In addition to using these steps..we are now having the brain consider systematic steps just before triggering the shot. This is where confidence is derived.
Just my thoughts.
Regards,
Duc.
As with everything new, you can't just jam all the information down someone new and expect them to pick it up. We have players at all different levels on this site so I think consideration needs to be taken into account for new players.
I wish everyone could have just ignored PJ's first post in the other thread (it was frankly just plain rude (More like a slap in the face) IMO) and moved on to let the other lessons out of the bag. So hopefully, cleary and Ronv can continue with their posts for other to review this system and judge for themselves if the system will work for them.
One of the biggest positive of aiming system as some have already mention is improve confidence that you have a way to correctly determine your line of aim and improve your ability to pocket the ball. I have develop throught practice with this aiming system some common shots that I'm very comfortable shooting just because I know my brain knows what to do to make the shot each time. For me, I found the system to be very effective in disecting why I have problem with certain shots when shooting with feels. So really, the confidence is derived from having more systematic process to determine my line of aim and improved percentage for making my shots in practice. Memory..Memory is still a big factor...that why practicing the shot is so important...because once you know how to make the shot..the brain take over and really does it for you.
The biggest problem with shooting with feel is there isn't really any defined steps that you follow. If you shoot the shot a thousand times..the brain just does all the adjustment for you....but when the pressure is on...the system goes out of whack and you chock. If you have a system in place to make the shot, I think the brain is better able to cope under pressure. That's why the fundamental is so important...stand, stroke, bridge hand..etc..are just systematic steps that the brainer factor in to make the shot. In addition to using these steps..we are now having the brain consider systematic steps just before triggering the shot. This is where confidence is derived.
Just my thoughts.
Regards,
Duc.
Patrick Johnson said: