The Reyes Cup

[jbart65]

Final thought on this year's Reyes: I have never seen the top Asian players show as much personality as they did at this event.

Ko has shown excitement winning a major, but he's usually stoic and polite. Not this year. He started hamming it up near the end of the Hanoi Open and was the team's second biggest cheerleader at Reyes after Chua.

Duong smiled more in one day at the Reyes than I've seen in two years of watching him.

Carlo was dancing during matches on several occasions.

Yapp, all people, pumped his first. He never does that!

I am for more events in which players act like people and less like robots.

 

[Fatboy]

Final thought on this year's Reyes: I have never seen the top Asian players show as much personality as they did at this event.

Ko has shown excitement winning a major, but he's usually stoic and polite. Not this year. He started hamming it up near the end of the Hanoi Open and was the team's second biggest cheerleader at Reyes after Chua.

Duong smiled more in one day at the Reyes than I've seen in two years of watching him.

Carlo was dancing during matches on several occasions.

Yapp, all people, pumped his first. He never does that!

I am for more events were players act like people and less like robots.

Great post!!!!

 

[Podunker]

Hard not to be impressed with the Asians. They're humble, supportive, and downright talented. They acted as if they were absolutely proud to represent the team and happy to be part of it.

 

[VVP]

Thanks Bob. I've made this same point several times to the powers that be at one or two prominent networks. I flat out told them I could do the job better. Alas, I never got the job, lol. That's one reason why Accu-Stats videos are so popular. The director (Pat Fleming) knows Pool!

It should be standard practice to show the entire table from the time the shot is attempted to when the cue ball stops, mostly in times when the cue ball is rolling to a precarious position. Earl calls the full view a 66 degrees view, which is usually shown on "Table2" when the camera is "fixed." I don't mind that view for the entire match, but it might be boring for a general audience.

 

[jbart65]

Johann Chua has had a lot to say lately. Here's part of what he said about the Reyes:

To Team Europe, it's a pleasure to be your opponent. These past few years I'm only a fan and a viewer of Mosconi Cup. Never would've ever thought that I will be able to play you guys with the same format and it will be held here in my country. It was incredible! Great game guys!

Johann Chua

Team Asia Champions of 1st Reyes Cup! This week went so fast, been playing continuously. Won Hanoi Open, travelled right away to go home for Reyes Cup. Then we won Reyes Cup, now I'm here at the...

www.facebook.com

Yapp, too.

Matchroom Pool

First Inaugural Reyes Cup Champion and MVP! What an amazing and exhilarating experience of yet another Matchroom Pool event! I feel really lucky to be a part of this fantastic event alongside my...

www.facebook.com

 

[garczar]

It should be standard practice to show the entire table from the time the shot is attempted to when the cue ball stops, mostly in times when the cue ball is rolling to a precarious position. Earl calls the full view a 66 degrees view, which is usually shown on "Table2" when the camera is "fixed." I don't mind that view for the entire match, but it might be boring for a general audience.

I don't watch much brit snooker but they really do good in this area. great overall views and especially down-the-line so you can see their oh-so-perfect cue delivery.

 

[Jaden]

Oops!

Yeah I almost mentioned the injury, I had to go back to realize they were talking about FSR.

Jaden

 

[sudocrushms]

Final thought on this year's Reyes: I have never seen the top Asian players show as much personality as they did at this event.

Ko has shown excitement winning a major, but he's usually stoic and polite. Not this year. He started hamming it up near the end of the Hanoi Open and was the team's second biggest cheerleader at Reyes after Chua.

Duong smiled more in one day at the Reyes than I've seen in two years of watching him.

Carlo was dancing during matches on several occasions.

Yapp, all people, pumped his first. He never does that!

I am for more events in which players act like people and less like robots.

Carlo smiling at his daughter yelling in the background during one of the later matches was fantastic.

 

[Coos Cues]

Have to admit that the Reyes cup will be infinitely more competitive than the Mosconi cup that just happened.

That didn't age well ^^^^

 

[garczar]

Final thought on this year's Reyes: I have never seen the top Asian players show as much personality as they did at this event.

Ko has shown excitement winning a major, but he's usually stoic and polite. Not this year. He started hamming it up near the end of the Hanoi Open and was the team's second biggest cheerleader at Reyes after Chua.

Duong smiled more in one day at the Reyes than I've seen in two years of watching him.

Carlo was dancing during matches on several occasions.

Yapp, all people, pumped his first. He never does that!

I am for more events in which players act like people and less like robots.

Part of, possibly a large part, was this was as i've said before an EXHIBITION. All players got same $$, no tour standings on the line so sure they could be far more jovial. Plus just being around Efren was huge too. Don't expect this kind of light-hearted atmosphere all the time. Not happening.

 

[DaWizard]

My perfect Europe team would have been:

Shaw
Krause
Ouschan
Filler
Zielinski

Normally FSR or Kaci would take that 5th spot, or Ouschan's spot, but both are not playing their A-game. Alcaide did better than expected, but there are younger talents that are equally good. Niels Feijen is, unfortunately, no longer reliably elite level (maybe make him Captain?).

Gorst I consider American by now. Him moving to the US is not just changing flags, he is actively becoming American in every aspect. Then at some point he is as American as any other migrant.

As a European it kind of feels wrong to include Russian players anyway. Historically they are included, but to me Russia does not feel European.

 

[sjm]

Part of, possibly a large part, was this was as i've said before an EXHIBITION. All players got same $$, no tour standings on the line so sure they could be far more jovial. Plus just being around Efren was huge too. Don't expect this kind of light-hearted atmosphere all the time. Not happening.

Yes, playing for pride is a myth. These players do this for a living. Winners and losers were paid the same, so this was a friendly game of pool, a paid exhibition with no money on the line.

It was not the best of Europe vs the best of Asia. There are a couple of European players called Fedor and Josh that happen to be the two best players in the world who were not members of Team Europe. Then again, Naoyuki Oi, Ko Ping Chung and Anton Raga could spot some members of Team Asia, so it wasn't really the best of Asia either.

I walk away with just one important takeaway. Efren, the greatest player of all time, was rightly honored here and that alone made this event important. Having him as coach of Team Asia was a stroke of genius. Nothing against Karl Boyes here, who had a solid career as a player and is an enduring credit to our game in so many ways, but perhaps a European Hall of Famer (such as Ortmann, Appleton, Souquet, Immonen, Hohmann, or Feijen) could be the captain of Team Europe. It's a good way to honor one of the legendary European players.

All that said, even as a friendly game, the Reyes Cup was a winning idea for Matchroom and all the credit to them. Perhaps this event will evolve into a match between the best of Europe and the best of Asia, which it certainly is not now. With Matchroom running the show, there's every reason to believe this can happen one day.

 

[pt109]

Gorst I consider American by now. Him moving to the US is not just changing flags, he is actively becoming American in every aspect. Then at some point he is as American as any other migrant.

As a European it kind of feels wrong to include Russian players anyway. Historically they are included, but to me Russia does not feel European.

The majority of Russians live in the European part….. many of the early settlers were known as the Viking Rus....so their genes would be related to most Northern Europeans. What is curious to me is the name ‘Gorst’…it’s a common English name most prevalent in England, USA, and Russia….. …..mind you, a saying in Russia is ‘Scratch a Russian and you’ll find a Tatar.

 

[skogstokig]

What is curious to me is the name ‘Gorst’…it’s a common English name most prevalent in England, USA, and Russia…

it's a good, woody kind of name.

 

[sjm]

Gorst I consider American by now. Him moving to the US is not just changing flags, he is actively becoming American in every aspect. Then at some point he is as American as any other migrant.

Immonen has lived in America for 25 years and is a US citizen, but he has played for Team Europe. Shaw, a mainstay of Team Europe, has lived in the US for about 15 years and is married to an American. Appleton lived in Pennsylvania for many years, was married to an American, yet often played for Team Europe. All three could play for Team Europe based on citizenship in a European nation.

To use Emly Frazer's words, Fedor was permitted to play for Team USA in 2023 based on his "intent to become a permanent resident" of America. He is a beloved figure among American fans, including this one, but he is not American, despite the intent to become American.

Proclaiming Gorst to be American was a marketing gimmick and I was fine with it as it shifted the balance of power a little at the 2023 Mosconi. It's dispiriting to even think about what might have happened to a Gorst-less Team USA last year against a European squad of Filler, Gorst, Ouschan, Shaw, and FSR, a team that would have had an average Fargo rating of 840.

 

[DaWizard]

Immonen has lived in America for 25 years and is a US citizen, but he has played for Team Europe. Shaw, a mainstay of Team Europe, has lived in the US for about 15 years and is married to an American. Appleton lived in Pennsylvania for many years, was married to an American, yet often played for Team Europe. All three could play for Team Europe based on citizenship in a European nation.

To use Emly Frazer's words, Fedor was permitted to play for Team USA in 2023 based on his "intent to become a permanent resident" of America. He is a beloved figure among American fans, including this one, but he is not American, despite the intent to become American.

Proclaiming Gorst to be American was a marketing gimmick and I was fine with it as it shifted the balance of power a little at the 2023 Mosconi. It's dispiriting to even think about what might have happened to a Gorst-less Team USA last year against a European squad of Filler, Gorst, Ouschan, Shaw, and FSR, a team that would have had an average Fargo rating of 840.

The line is thin indeed, and arbitrary. And his move is for sure influenced by the need of Matchroom as well. I do wonder: have the other examples you mention applied for American citizenship? (assuming Fedor Gorst has applied for citizenship)

All together there are probably more examples that show there is no clearcut line to declare a sporter truly nationalized. Personally, as far as I can judge, he has all intention to be American. For me that's the most important thing.

That team tough

And honestly Shaw also surprised me. Some years ago I somehow thought he was just a loudmouth with some strong moments. But he is continuously top tier.

 

[sjm]

The line is thin indeed, and arbitrary. And his move is for sure influenced by the need of Matchroom as well. I do wonder: have the other examples you mention applied for American citizenship? (assuming Fedor Gorst has applied for citizenship)

They might all be citizens of the US, but I just didn't know except in the case of Immonen. Although I don't know, I doubt Fedor has applied for citizenship, but I believe he got his green card in 2023, so he has taken the first important step toward American citizenship.

All together there are probably more examples that show there is no clearcut line to declare a sporter truly nationalized. Personally, as far as I can judge, he has all intention to be American. For me that's the most important thing.

Agreed that this is an area of ambiguity.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Immonen has lived in America for 25 years and is a US citizen, but he has played for Team Europe. Shaw, a mainstay of Team Europe, has lived in the US for about 15 years and is married to an American. Appleton lived in Pennsylvania for many years, was married to an American, yet often played for Team Europe. All three could play for Team Europe based on citizenship in a European nation.

To use Emly Frazer's words, Fedor was permitted to play for Team USA in 2023 based on his "intent to become a permanent resident" of America. He is a beloved figure among American fans, including this one, but he is not American, despite the intent to become American.

Proclaiming Gorst to be American was a marketing gimmick and I was fine with it as it shifted the balance of power a little at the 2023 Mosconi. It's dispiriting to even think about what might have happened to a Gorst-less Team USA last year against a European squad of Filler, Gorst, Ouschan, Shaw, and FSR, a team that would have had an average Fargo rating of 840.

IMO, Mika, Appleton, Shaw, Thorston, Allison Fisher, etc. should have represented the USA in their professional careers, after they went through all the steps to move to the USA and become citizens. I'm not sure which (or all) actually became American Citizens. Allison, just a year ago, decided to represent USA.

I don't see it as a gimmick for Gorst. Yes, he is a 2-3 years early under most accepted international organizations, but he had the whole Russia war thing going on. I see him as pretty much defecting to the USA like other star athletes did during the Cold War era. He didn't get the attention like the gymnasts did, because its pool, and different times.

 

[jbart65]

Yes, playing for pride is a myth. These players do this for a living. Winners and losers were paid the same, so this was a friendly game of pool, a paid exhibition with no money on the line.

It was not the best of Europe vs the best of Asia. There are a couple of European players called Fedor and Josh that happen to be the two best players in the world who were not members of Team Europe. Then again, Naoyuki Oi, Ko Ping Chung and Anton Raga could spot some members of Team Asia, so it wasn't really the best of Asia either.

Professionals in any sport play first and foremost to earn a living. That is undoubtedly true. No pro plays solely or mainly for pride.

That's not to say pride is never a factor imo. Often it is. The most obvious example is pro players, such as those in the NBA, that play in the Olympics. They don't get paid. They are playing to represent their country.

Does it help with endorsements? Sure. So some money might be involved.

Soccer players in the World Cup are another obvious example of players playing partly for pride.

Having watched the entire Reyes Cup, it was obvious that pride played a role, most notably with the Filipino players, Chua and Biado. But I also got the sense that Ko, Yapp and Duong fell some "pride" too.

To them, at least, it was more than just a friendly game of pro even though the winnings were the same for everyone. Chua and Yapp specifically said so.

It was harder to get a read on what the European players thought.

***
Was the match the best of Europe and Asia? No, but it was lot closer to being so, imo, than you seem think.

I'd leave Fedor out of the equation since he is living in the U.S. He and his future wife, Kristina Tkach, told a local Indiana TV station recently they are working on getting U.S. citizenship.

Filler was obviously a big absence, as you note. He is the best player in Europe.

Aside from him the only other player who could make a clear case for being the No. 2 or No. 3 player on Team Europe is Albin Ouschan. So it was not a weak European team by any stretch.

The Asian Team, on the other hand, was darn near the best of Asia. Switch in Ko Pin Chung for Duong and it would have been.

You mention Raga and Oi.

Raga hasn't done much since getting to the finals in the European Open in 2023. Jefrey Roda and Jeffrey Ignacio have been more impressive, but none of those three Filipinos are better than Ko, Chua and Biado. Nor do they have Yapp's track record.

Oi is ahead of Duong in the rankings, but unlike Duong, he's never won a Matchroom ranking event. Nor would I put him above an in-form Yapp.

 

[garczar]

Professionals in any sport play first and foremost to earn a living. That is undoubtedly true. No pro plays solely or mainly for pride.

That's not to say pride is never a factor imo. Often it is. The most obvious example is pro players, such as those in the NBA, that play in the Olympics. They don't get paid. They are playing to represent their country.

Does it help with endorsements? Sure. So some money might be involved.

Soccer players in the World Cup are another obvious example of players playing partly for pride.

Having watched the entire Reyes Cup, it was obvious that pride played a role, most notably with the Filipino players, Chua and Biado. But I also got the sense that Ko, Yapp and Duong fell some "pride" too.

To them, at least, it was more than just a friendly game of pro even though the winnings were the same for everyone. Chua and Yapp specifically said so.

It was harder to get a read on what the European players thought.

***
Was the match the best of Europe and Asia? No, but it was lot closer to being so, imo, than you seem think.

I'd leave Fedor out of the equation since he is living in the U.S. He and his future wife, Kristina Tkach, told a local Indiana TV station recently they are working on getting U.S. citizenship.

Filler was obviously a big absence, as you note. He is the best player in Europe.

Aside from him the only other player who could make a clear case for being the No. 2 or No. 3 player on Team Europe is Albin Ouschan. So it was not a weak European team by any stretch.

The Asian Team, on the other hand, was darn near the best of Asia. Switch in Ko Pin Chung for Duong and it would have been.

You mention Raga and Oi.

Raga hasn't done much since getting to the finals in the European Open in 2023. Jefrey Roda and Jeffrey Ignacio have been more impressive, but none of those three Filipinos are better than Ko, Chua and Biado. Nor do they have Yapp's track record.

Oi is ahead of Duong in the rankings, but unlike Duong, he's never won a Matchroom ranking event. Nor would I put him above an in-form Yapp.

Oh well, another one i skip.