The Rifleman Vs. SVB

I have not seen Buddy playing for the cash a lot mostly just tournament matches. In tournament matches I have seen, I think Shane rolls with bad results better than Buddy at least since I have been watching Baddy which was after his 86 prime era. Buddy seems to have a lot of complaints when things do not go his way and he gets behind in a match. The next time you get a chance to watch Buddy play if this is not true. He is a bit of complainer and break taker and slows down even more when the rolls are not going his way. I have to take SVB myself in this matchup.
 
elvicash said:
I have not seen Buddy playing for the cash a lot mostly just tournament matches. In tournament matches I have seen, I think Shane rolls with bad results better than Buddy at least since I have been watching Baddy which was after his 86 prime era. Buddy seems to have a lot of complaints when things do not go his way and he gets behind in a match. The next time you get a chance to watch Buddy play if this is not true. He is a bit of complainer and break taker and slows down even more when the rolls are not going his way. I have to take SVB myself in this matchup.
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Very true...........I played em in match play in Ohio in a bar table event 1990, he demanded that I put in quarters as he wanted the 1-9 in the rack and he didn't want me to use the stripes that were still left in the drop area. I knew the solids were WORN OUT and the balls wouldn't rack as tight (was easy to make balls) as when you put the upper numbered stripes in the mix. I looked at him as said, yeah right, break em, I beat em, he acted like a jerk in that match. Feels like his complaining got louder and more noticeable as he aged. He grew up in the trenches of society with all its dysfunction, Shane is on a completely different course, and it is a true career. Buddy is OLD school and I look forward to those old school ways...... to disappear, FOR GOOD. In the game of today...''be nice or be gone'' works for the sport. I too hate complaining and all the dysfunction that's interjected into our game STILL....With the playing fields on a global scale, and the demands our sport needs to get to the top of the heap nowadays, its going to take someone with allot of character and a strong work ethic and a trainer to even come close.
 
sr 9ball said:
How can u tell when the playing conditions r so much different. I believe when buddy played it was easier to get perfect shape cause the tables played slower and the pockets where bigger. The tables today favor the roll shot more than the skid shot.
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so which are you calling easier the older or the newer? In many eyes with the newer no stroke is needed. Have you ever noticed how SVB plays? he would have loved that stuff as he loves to let that big stroke out.
Buddy would have won and I believe handily. He misses about half the balls SVB does!
 
9ball mike said:
At the pro 10 ball tournament in Dallas a few months ago I was talking to Oscar Domingez and he told me he believed when Shane gets his break working nobody that has ever played can beat him. The break in rotation games is such a big deal I personally believe Buddy would have trouble fading the monster break of Shane.
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Well FWIW, Buddy had a pretty fair break himself. He ran out more sets than maybe anyone in history!
 
This thread reminds me of the movie Stand By Me, where the two kids were arguing about who would win in a fight between Superman and Batman.


Some things never change! Lol
 
Island Drive said:
Very true...........I played em in match play in Ohio in a bar table event 1990, he demanded that I put in quarters as he wanted the 1-9 in the rack and he didn't want me to use the stripes that were still left in the drop area. I knew the solids were WORN OUT and the balls wouldn't rack as tight (was easy to make balls) as when you put the upper numbered stripes in the mix. I looked at him as said, yeah right, break em, I beat em, he acted like a jerk in that match. Feels like his complaining got louder and more noticeable as he aged. He grew up in the trenches of society with all its dysfunction, Shane is on a completely different course, and it is a true career. Buddy is OLD school and I look forward to those old school ways...... to disappear, FOR GOOD. In the game of today...''be nice or be gone'' works for the sport. I too hate complaining and all the dysfunction that's interjected into our game STILL....With the playing fields on a global scale, and the demands our sport needs to get to the top of the heap nowadays, its going to take someone with allot of character and a strong work ethic and a trainer to even come close.
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Great post with much insight. Buddy was a good guy but while at the table, hwe was more a no nonsense type of guy. You always knew he was after your last drop of blood.
he did become a little grumpy with age and the crowd bothered him more and more.
Very true he grew up in the trenches and pulled himself out by his boot straps. he was called Rags for a very good reason. IMO his determination and instinct for survival is/was a very forgiving factor.
Why would he be soupset about you winning the match, hell, you beat many of them and on far more than just one day!!
Good post Bill!!
 
Spider1 said:
As mentioned, Buddy took it to a prime Efren. Efren. That is all that needs to be said right there.



And gambling today is absolutely nothing compared to the old days. How can someone argue that with a straight face? There used to be multiple people out on the road making a living gambling, which can help you imagine how much back room gambling was going on at pool rooms back then. Today? Please.
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Ummm, Buddy only wanted a piece of Efren after Efren stayed up for two days straight with no sleep. I would hardly call that "Efren's prime". And plus, he had to give a little back.....
 
BarneyCalip said:
SVB is my favorite player to watch in 10 ball.
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Shane: I've heard about you

Jack Wilson: What have you heard, Shane?

Shane: I've heard that you're a low-down Yankee liar.

Jack Wilson: Prove it.

Love that movie.

Come back, Shane.
 
ghost ball said:
Ummm, Buddy only wanted a piece of Efren after Efren stayed up for two days straight with no sleep. I would hardly call that "Efren's prime". And plus, he had to give a little back.....
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I also heard that, but effie didn't go looking for him tho after he rested. Also, during that same time frame, Medina tryed tangling with Efren during those earlier Reds/Houston tourneys, got roasted/quickly, not easy to run over Danny, but Danny was always a little wild on the playfield....he treated the 9 footers like a barbox. I do remember the Goose playing Fat Randy on the box with the Big Ball for about 50 hrs straight, chemical warfare at its best, Goose finally got the dough.
 
donny mills said:
No way efren was in his prime in 86. It's common sense. The last 25 years everyone got better.
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According to Efren, he was in his prime in his late teens which would have been in the early to mid 70's. It's hard to believe that based on what he has done here in the US since 1985, but perhaps he felt like he had lost a step based on the competition he was facing in the PI. But, as we all know, he just got lucky a bunch of times when he was over here.

Aaron
 
Island Drive said:
I also heard that, but effie didn't go looking for him tho after he rested. Also, during that same time frame, Medina tryed tangling with Efren during those earlier Reds/Houston tourneys, got roasted/quickly, not easy to run over Danny, but Danny was always a little wild on the playfield....he treated the 9 footers like a barbox. I do remember the Goose playing Fat Randy on the box with the Big Ball for about 50 hrs straight, chemical warfare at its best, Goose finally got the dough.
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Why would Efren look for Buddy after he rested? The pinoys were here to make money, not for pride. The pinoys are smart gamblers, sometimes you have to throw a match or avoid a player to leave a little doubt with potential "customers"....
 
ghost ball said:
Ummm, Buddy only wanted a piece of Efren after Efren stayed up for two days straight with no sleep. I would hardly call that "Efren's prime". And plus, he had to give a little back.....
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The story I read said Buddy was the one that had been up for two days and they were supposed to play again, but when Buddy arrived at the poolroom he was informed that Efren had left town. In Efren's defense I heard that the reason he left was because his stakehorse stole all his winnings. Jose Parica told me that Buddy had a stakehorse in Florida during the 90's and had a standing offer for Efren to come and play anytime and Efren passed. I'm not knocking Efren, I just think that its crazy to say that Buddy wanted no part of any living human when he was playing his best because he played them all and won.
 
ironman said:
so which are you calling easier the older or the newer? In many eyes with the newer no stroke is needed. Have you ever noticed how SVB plays? he would have loved that stuff as he loves to let that big stroke out.
Buddy would have won and I believe handily. He misses about half the balls SVB does!
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Do you think the size of the pockets and the fact that the new Diamond tables play pretty tough has anything to do with Buddy missing less balls than Shane? Im just curious because I know the deeper shelf on the Diamond tables make balls hang up more often, and if I'm not mistaken arent the pockets tighter than the pockets on the older tables?
 
In all seriousness it wouldn't even be that close IMO I am aware of good shane plays but I have seen shane play many many times and after reading rags to rifleman and really learning how good buddy really was. I mean Louie Roberts was spotting everyone he was playing the seven and winning and buddy was spotting him the seven and just dusting him. So I think until Shane can spot Rodney Morris or Corey the Seven and beat them time and time again.. I don't even know how you can think it would be that close of a match.

by the way not knocking Shane because I know how good he plays I just think a lot of people don't really know how good buddy played. I just wish I had the chance to see some of it but I'm only 23.

JMO of course. but on a side note everyone should DEF read rags to rifleman... man... just unreal.
 
RobDeBank said:
In all seriousness it wouldn't even be that close IMO I am aware of good shane plays but I have seen shane play many many times and after reading rags to rifleman and really learning how good buddy really was. I mean Louie Roberts was spotting everyone he was playing the seven and winning and buddy was spotting him the seven and just dusting him. So I think until Shane can spot Rodney Morris or Corey the Seven and beat them time and time again.. I don't even know how you can think it would be that close of a match.

by the way not knocking Shane because I know how good he plays I just think a lot of people don't really know how good buddy played. I just wish I had the chance to see some of it but I'm only 23.

JMO of course. but on a side note everyone should DEF read rags to rifleman... man... just unreal.
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Well, I did get to see Buddy play quite a bit, and I happen to agree with you wholeheartedly. In my mind, Buddy was one of the rare players who reaches another level completely, has another gear above championship level play, and was capable of beating most of his peers with his B game. The best verbalization of the concept I can think of is when someone was talking about the best players in the 60's; they said so-and-so was the best and someone else played just under that guy's speed, but then they said something like "now, when I say 'the best', I mean except for Wimpy, he's the best by far". It was like Lassiter's name didn't even need mentioning because everybody knew they were vying for second place in that race. I think Buddy reached that level as well, and I have heard that both Lassiter and Willis said that Buddy was the best 9-ball player they'd ever seen.

Not to knock SVB at all - he is an amazingly talented player (who's still coming up!), but he could have gotten a little weight from a prime buddy and still not have liked it, IMO.

Aaron
 
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