The true record hi run

B

billinboston

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Can someone tell me why Mosconi's record is talked about so much ?
A great run ... Sure .... But HELLO ?? It was on a 4 x 8 ?!?!?
Isn't the regulation table a 4 1/2 x 9 ? Shouldn't the true record hi run be acknowledged as the person with the highest run ( with several witnesses ), on a 4 1/2 x 9 table ?
If Mosconi ran .... Say .... 850 on a 3 1/2 x 7 table ... Would that also be recognized as the hi run record ??? And speaking of that.... Is it possible that Mosconi does have the record hi run from the 30's -40's , when the regulation table back then was a 5 x 10 ?
I think he tore off a 365 or something like that, which to me, was way more impressive
Would love to hear some thoughts from you seasoned straight poolers.
Thanks, Bill
 
If Mosconi ran a 365 on a 5x10 that is more impressive to me then his 526 on a big pocket 4x8.
Both are impressive but a 5x10 is just so much harder in my opinion.
I've played on both size tables and the 5x10 was torture.
With out looking it up I don't know what Mosconis high run is on a 5x10 but I'm pretty sure both Greenleaf and Crane have high runs over 300 on a 5x10.
 
If I recall correctly ( and I may not), the record on a 5 x 10 is jointly held by Mosconi and Irving Crane at 309. Can't say what size pockets either one made the run on.
 
billinboston said:
Can someone tell me why Mosconi's record is talked about so much ?
A great run ... Sure .... But HELLO ?? It was on a 4 x 8 ?!?!?
Isn't the regulation table a 4 1/2 x 9 ? Shouldn't the true record hi run be acknowledged as the person with the highest run ( with several witnesses ), on a 4 1/2 x 9 table ?
If Mosconi ran .... Say .... 850 on a 3 1/2 x 7 table ... Would that also be recognized as the hi run record ??? And speaking of that.... Is it possible that Mosconi does have the record hi run from the 30's -40's , when the regulation table back then was a 5 x 10 ?
I think he tore off a 365 or something like that, which to me, was way more impressive
Would love to hear some thoughts from you seasoned straight poolers.
Thanks, Bill
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Probably because most high runs, especially back then w/o video, have little to no documentation to go with them. And on that particular night someone had the foresight to collect signatures for an affidavit. So, it became "the record."

On the flip side, in one of the late George Fels' column in a recent BD, he tells a story at the end of it about how Charlie Ursitti witnessed Mosconi warming up for a TV match with Fats, in the late 70's, when Willie was in his mid-60's. Willie start playing and ran 588 balls. Mosconi then breaks open the 43th rack, had the balls *wide open,* and puts his cue down after pocketing the 589th ball and said, "Let's go get some dinner. See, its no big deal to run 600 balls."

If a few more folks had been around for the whole run, "the record" would probably be considerably higher, and on a 9'.

Lou Figueroa
 
Wouldn't it be cool if Jay Helfert or CSI held an invitational on the margins of a big tourney...get the top 30 or so 14.1 players on a 4x8, see who can break the record; wouldn't even need any added money for a prize fund, although you could run a Calcutta or something to have some cheese. The ability for John Schmidt or Thorsten or someone to be the new record holder and put this to bed once and for all would be incentive enough. Give everyone 3 shots at it and run the action for 24 hours for a week. I'm frankly amazed the record has stood this long, with so many players running 200+ on big tables with tight pockets.
 
West Point 1987 said:
Wouldn't it be cool if Jay Helfert or CSI held an invitational on the margins of a big tourney...get the top 30 or so 14.1 players on a 4x8, see who can break the record; wouldn't even need any added money for a prize fund, although you could run a Calcutta or something to have some cheese. The ability for John Schmidt or Thorsten or someone to be the new record holder and put this to bed once and for all would be incentive enough. Give everyone 3 shots at it and run the action for 24 hours for a week. I'm frankly amazed the record has stood this long, with so many players running 200+ on big tables with tight pockets.
Click to expand...


I've always thought that one of the interesting things about Mosconi was that, unlike some of today's competitors, he didn't lock himself up in a private room, with perfect conditions, set up a break ball, blast them wide open, and attempt high runs over and over. He'd just travel from pool room to pool room, play someone an exhibition match on whatever Brunswick table was available, in front of a crowd with all the attendant pool room distractions and variable conditions, and almost very night in one or two innings run 100. He'd then do some trick shots, sign some autographs, and move on to the next town.

On that night in Springfield, he was playing a local who made three off the break. Willie then ran 200 and, at the urging of the crowd, and just kept going. One attempt.

Lou Figueroa
 
In the game of a baseball the most widely recognized steroid free record for most home runs in a season was Roger Maris with 61. Prior to that the record was held by Babe Ruth. They both played half their games in Yankee Stadium, a very friendly ballpark for left handed power hitters such as Maris and Ruth. Nobody dismissed their record because of the ballpark they played in.

For me, Mosconi has the record and the thing about Mosconi was he didn't get paid any more for running 526 than if he had broke down his cue and quit after 150 like he did many times. I'd bet my next retirement check if you offered Mosconi $1 million dollars to run 526 on a 9 foot table he would have done it eventually. Most of his exhibitions he simply quit after running 100+ balls.
 
West Point 1987 said:
Wouldn't it be cool if Jay Helfert or CSI held an invitational on the margins of a big tourney...get the top 30 or so 14.1 players on a 4x8, see who can break the record; wouldn't even need any added money for a prize fund, although you could run a Calcutta or something to have some cheese. The ability for John Schmidt or Thorsten or someone to be the new record holder and put this to bed once and for all would be incentive enough. Give everyone 3 shots at it and run the action for 24 hours for a week. I'm frankly amazed the record has stood this long, with so many players running 200+ on big tables with tight pockets.
Click to expand...
You appear to be describing the various high-run challenge events, except for the 4x8 part.
 
Bob Jewett said:
You appear to be describing the various high-run challenge events, except for the 4x8 part.
Click to expand...

I am indeed...but using the 4x8 brings in the challenge of breaking that particular record; plus, it would be recorded/witnessed to remove all doubt, should someone actually pull it off.
 
West Point 1987 said:
Wouldn't it be cool if Jay Helfert or CSI held an invitational on the margins of a big tourney...get the top 30 or so 14.1 players on a 4x8, see who can break the record; wouldn't even need any added money for a prize fund, although you could run a Calcutta or something to have some cheese. The ability for John Schmidt or Thorsten or someone to be the new record holder and put this to bed once and for all would be incentive enough. Give everyone 3 shots at it and run the action for 24 hours for a week. I'm frankly amazed the record has stood this long, with so many players running 200+ on big tables with tight pockets.
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I agree that would be fun to watch and there are some great 14.1 players today but if Mosconi was alive and in his prime I guarantee you he would go highest in the Calcutta.

If someone beat the record it would prove that if you put the best players in the world on a table 24 hours a day for a week they could beat the record. That's not what Mosconi did though, on a whim he decided to continue the exhibition instead of quitting at 150 and he ran 526. To have to go to those lengths just to try to beat the record speaks volumes about Mosconi's ability.
 
Actually, I believe 365 is Mosconi's high run on a 5 x 10 table. I know he ran 353 on a 5 x 10 and that was a record, but he soon after ran the 365 while the 5 x 10 tables were still the table used but I dont know if it was ever stated clearly that it was a 5 x 10. Greenleaf ran 276 and Crane 309 on a 5x 10. Babe Cranfield was alleged to have run 420 on a 5 x 10 but I dont think it was ever verified.
 
billinboston said:
Can someone tell me why Mosconi's record is talked about so much ?
A great run ... Sure .... But HELLO ?? It was on a 4 x 8 ?!?!?
Isn't the regulation table a 4 1/2 x 9 ? Shouldn't the true record hi run be acknowledged as the person with the highest run ( with several witnesses ), on a 4 1/2 x 9 table ?
If Mosconi ran .... Say .... 850 on a 3 1/2 x 7 table ... Would that also be recognized as the hi run record ??? And speaking of that.... Is it possible that Mosconi does have the record hi run from the 30's -40's , when the regulation table back then was a 5 x 10 ?
I think he tore off a 365 or something like that, which to me, was way more impressive
Would love to hear some thoughts from you seasoned straight poolers.
Thanks, Bill
Click to expand...

Because it is the highest VERIFIED run ever made on any table. What is YOUR high run? Post a video of you running what Mosconi did...hell, shoot it on a 3x6. Such BS.

All the great players in the world are/were great players. Mosconi is considered by most to be the greatest. Of course, it is difficult to compare the old players to the new, but his run is still the highest. No Simonis, either. Jump on a 4x8 with wide pockets and the old cloth and see how that table long draw Simonis suddenly becomes about a 1 foot draw.

Joe
 
Bamacues said:
Because it is the highest VERIFIED run ever made on any table. ...
Click to expand...
There are some other parts of the record. It was an announced exhibition, not just someone with a cam in their basement. The public (and press, I think) was present during the entire run. There was an affidavit signed and notarized.

I think Cranfield probably did run 768, but it was not in an exhibition -- it was just in practice. Eufemia may have run 625 in an exhibition. He made a very strong statement about it in his book, but evidently the documentation was lacking.

At English Billiards, the longest run anyone has ever made at any cue sport (almost 250,000 consecutive shots) was denied a record because the press and public were not present during the whole five weeks that it took.
 
Bamacues said:
Because it is the highest VERIFIED run ever made on any table. What is YOUR high run? Post a video of you running what Mosconi did...hell, shoot it on a 3x6. Such BS.

All the great players in the world are/were great players. Mosconi is considered by most to be the greatest. Of course, it is difficult to compare the old players to the new, but his run is still the highest. No Simonis, either. Jump on a 4x8 with wide pockets and the old cloth and see how that table long draw Simonis suddenly becomes about a 1 foot draw.

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe:

The bolded part is a non-starter. Because that horse blanket cloth is so difficult to perform a decent draw shot on (and even when you do, you have to really slam it / let your stroke out, which leads to the tendency to overdraw it), draw shots are not a staple of good 14.1 pattern-solving. Put it this way, if you have to use a strong draw shot in 14.1, you're doing something wrong in your pattern. Most 14.1 patterns where the masters "made it look easy" make use of stun, stun-follow, follow, or stun-draw. The less you have to move the cue ball around (especially with draw, which is difficult to control), the better.

So the argument specifically about the cloth being tougher is really a moot issue. Proper pattern-solving made that a moot issue. I'd focus more on the balls, the table (beyond just the cloth), and the pockets -- these affect the game more as to what you saw in the days of old vs. today.

-Sean
 
Mosconi 4x8 Challenge?

Hi there,
I wonder if this idea could get traction?
A 4x8 table with old style cloth set up at Steinway this August at the 14.1 Championship. I wouldn't consider myself one to run to the front waving cash, but I'd offer up $500 to start a pot.
However, these conditions might get the players out of stroke rather than in stroke for the competition on 9 footers with Simonis.


Dave
 
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