The Ugliest Version of Pool. League
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
League Pool with teams... sucks... wish APA would put together a singles league in the masters format... that would be decent.
Edit to add:
League pool with team sucks on the basis of attempting to be competitive and wanting to play pool correctly... if you are looking for a fun night out with friends then it's great. You just really need to be able to draw the line.
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Not sure how I got roped in to another league bashing thread by Pangit but what exactly are you talking about here (bold above). How is league pool not played correctly and how is it not competitive?
People get 'ultra serious' playing solo too.
The nature of the player has more of an influence of their behavior that the format of play. (IMHO)
Take Earl for example.......
The nature of the player has more of an influence of their behavior that the format of play. (IMHO)
Take Earl for example.......
To be fair, I think the people are to blame. The APA league rules are fair until people twist them to suit their needs. I'm not a big APA fan but I am not a hater either.
I think what icon of sin was getting at is that playing to win every game is not always the agenda for many league teams. Which is true is some cases, most to be honest. And in cases like that the league format can do more harm than good in a players development.
I have been in leagues that are APA where sandbagging and similar tactics are not so much the case, when it's done right by decent people it can be a great experience.
I think what icon of sin was getting at is that playing to win every game is not always the agenda for many league teams. Which is true is some cases, most to be honest. And in cases like that the league format can do more harm than good in a players development.
I have been in leagues that are APA where sandbagging and similar tactics are not so much the case, when it's done right by decent people it can be a great experience.
Along the lines of the "not correctly" comment. League rules (apa) are different then the normal rules. 9ball being ball count changes strategies. No jump cues allowed, No push outs... In apa 9ball you can be punished for making a ball onthe break and not being allowed to push out. You shouldnt be forced to go kicking at a ball after making a good break.
Along the lines of the competitive comment... I neer said it wasnt competitive... what I am saying is that if you go into it looking to be competitive you are going to have a bad time. You have teams that are strict and just unfriendly. You have the players that attempt to manipulate their skill levels by sandbagging. No only does them dogging balls keep their SL down, but it also has a chance to raise yours. This in turn could affect your future matches and those you play against as well because it could cause you to be rated incorrectly as well.
Now combine all this with the league players that just dont know any better regarding anything else i the pool world. The SL4 that has been playing league for 10 years (really, playing pool regularly for 10 years and you are still a 4!) that thinks the APA is the end all be all of pool when in fact they really have no clue what real pool is.
For myself, pool league has way more negative associated with it for a pool player then positive. This is why I said it's better to just go into league night looking to have fun then to attempt to be competitive because you are just going to have a miserable time playing pool the incorrect way.
OK rant over.
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Go fly solo then, quit whining about leagues, you do a disservice to the sport.
The thing is... the absolute ground truth... the undeniable 300 lb white gorillaphant in the room is...
99% of all people who pick up a cue are just looking for an entertaining way to pass the time. And they're under no obligation to devote themselves to pool the way I do, or you do, or anyone else does.
Just take a deep breath and remember:
"we're here on Earth to fart around, don't let anyone tell you any different."
-- kurt vonnegut
99% of all people who pick up a cue are just looking for an entertaining way to pass the time. And they're under no obligation to devote themselves to pool the way I do, or you do, or anyone else does.
Just take a deep breath and remember:
"we're here on Earth to fart around, don't let anyone tell you any different."
-- kurt vonnegut
The thing is, who is to say which way is "incorrect"?
They are simply rules. If you play by those rules, then you are playing "the correct way".
Now if you don't like those rules, that's fine. But that doesn't make them "incorrect."
You could always try a different league, we don't have APA here, only BCA and VNEA. The problems you talk about don't really seem to be a problem in my town, maybe you are in the wrong league.
I know everyone in our team and a few other teams. Most are my friends. Therefore I have to like APA league. It's not everyone, it's a good stomping ground for few then move on. It's a free country and you are free to not be in the league.:wave:
Loren
Loren
you bring up some interesting points and there are a lot of people that would agree with you. i just happen to be one that does not agree. i am not saying you are wrong in your opinion, just using is the glass half full or half empty anology.
your 1st point. apa 9 ball is points based, so is bcapl 8 ball. whats the difference ?
being punished on the break ? sharpen up your banking and kicking skills. a pushout is the easy way out.
sandbagging ? yea i am sure some people do. matter of fact there are people in all leagues who will do whatever it takes to give them an advantage. there was a long and interesting thread about people dumping at the bcapl nationals. sandbagging, dumping , dont see any difference.
an apa 4 still a 4 after 10 years ? some people just dont improve for a number of reasons. mainly pool is not a full time job for any league player no matter how much they may like playing pool.
i am sure other leagues have players that were a 4 10 years ago and have not reached master level yet.
a lot of people complain about the open break vs closed break also. would you believe it it easier for me to have a break and run in napa league than to have one in apa ?
napa league is call your pocket, apa slop counts. why is it easier to make a break and run in a serious league vs a slop league ? simple, an open break gives you more options after the break.
a closed break makes it harder for a break and run which gives a lesser player a chance to even get to the table. is it a bad rule to give a lesser player a chance to even make a few balls?
that is what the apa is all about. giving new players a chance at the table.
Another instigating question started by somebody that may not even play pool.
I've always liked Pangit, however these allegations are deeply disturbing.
Why would someone post on a billiards forum that doesnt even play pool?
Before I read the rest of this thread or any other thread started by Pangit,
I will need some league playing proof like a patch, wall plaque, Break n' run pin,
something pool league related.
Pangit, here is a link to a Tuesday night pool league I found in Subic Bay.
One of the bars could have a team that needs a player.
http://tuespool.leaguerepublic.com/ListPublicFixture.do?divisionseason=7104647
Some people's talent capabilities just max-out earlier than others. Is it your opinion that everyone that plays pool regularly for 10 years should automatically be better than a SL4?
If you played basketball regularly for ten years, would you be good enough for a tryout with a college team (much less the pros)?
If you road motocross motorcyles for ten years, would you be ready/able enough to "hang" with the pros?
If you played chess regularly for ten years, how would your game be compared to the greats?
Get my point?
We are not all destined, nor do many of us DESIRE to become excellent at something just because we have spent years doing it. Many of us simply want to exact a certain amount of pleasure from our endeavors.
The part in your post that I quoted above is somewhat condescending/insulting to any and all SL4's we have on this site.
We can't all be "Iconic"
!!!Maniac
I have to agree with the comment regarding the guy who is still an SL4 after 10-years in the league...really?
I know people that want to move down and people that are afraid to move up.
In some ways the APA handicap system and the 23-point team limit does promote some bad play, but anytime you are keeping score and there iare trophies and payouts involved, it is still competitive.
The solution is to get the leagues out of the bars and into the pool rooms where players can actually improve their game.
Open up more pool rooms and promote the game through true instructional leagues, not leagues that say they are instructional, but your team is punished when players improve.
Since it's already been established that pool is surviving through leagues, why not take advantage of it and get pool back into the pool halls.
I've played in the Bush/APA league since 1992 and have seen a lot of BS come and go, several league operators, lots of bad calls, a few arguments and lots of people learn and get hooked into the sport. I've played with the same group of people for at least 15 years and will continue to do so until it's not fun anymore. Fun, is the key, if you don't enjoy playing on an organized team then don't. I've never taken the league thing very seriously, just have a good time and hang out with people once a week that I don't get to see nearly enough.
The APA is good for introducing inexperienced players to the sport in a relaxed fashion where they can sometimes beat a better player. Over all, it's a good thing for the sport. If the APA was smaller, there would be even less pool on TV. On a personal level it got my girlfriend into the sport and she's taken a pretty strong liking and interest in it and it's been fun teaching her the in's and out's of how to play pool.
The few experienced players in the league could use their knowledge to advance the sport and sportsmanship, and some do that. I captain an APA team and it can get tedious watching horrible pool playing and organizing things so you just have to keep it balanced with playing in your own singles tournaments and such and delegating duties to your team mates.
If it's not for you, it's not for you and that's that. Nothing wrong with that either. I definitely struggle with spending five hours watching bad players when I could be using that valuable time to improve my own game, but I also enjoy my team on a personal level as fun people to hang out with so it works out.
The few experienced players in the league could use their knowledge to advance the sport and sportsmanship, and some do that. I captain an APA team and it can get tedious watching horrible pool playing and organizing things so you just have to keep it balanced with playing in your own singles tournaments and such and delegating duties to your team mates.
If it's not for you, it's not for you and that's that. Nothing wrong with that either. I definitely struggle with spending five hours watching bad players when I could be using that valuable time to improve my own game, but I also enjoy my team on a personal level as fun people to hang out with so it works out.