The World has got the 8

Back in the mid 80's after I watched Efren win the Red's tournament in Houston, I walked in a pool room and there sat Efren and his posse.

I had my cue case over my shoulder and one of his posse got up and came over to me.

You have to understand something first. Not one of them had ever seen me hit a ball.

The conversation was quick and to the point.

He asked, "Wanna play some 9 Ball?"

I said, "With your boy over there?....I know who he is."

He said without hesitation, "We'll give you the 6,7 and 8 but you gotta bet at least a $100 a game."

I said, "I'll take the 6 out and the snaps."

He said, "No snaps. We'll give you the 5 out."

I said, "El Paso, without the snaps!" and that was it. I went up and sat on the rail to see if they would get froggy and jump but they never did.

Simply put, a tough spot to pass up as I had 5 barrels on me but something told me I couldn't win in the long run after what I had seen at Red's.

I didn't think there was a player on the planet that could scare me off with that spot....................but he did.

Twenty plus years later and I think I should have taken a $500 swing at him just to say I did. Hind sight is 20/20.
 
Maybe Jay can confirm or deny this.

Back in the 80's, I heard Efren and Kim Davenport matched up with Davenport getting the seven for 10 dimes in a race to 10.

Efren was ahead by a score of 6 or 7 to 0 when Efren put a murderous, no air to breath safety on Kim.

The story I heard was Kim walked over and looked at the layout for a minute, picked up his stick, unscrewed, and walked out.

Like I said, I have no confirmation on this.

Jay?
 
At this point in time he might be. Although, I have a few players, i would back against Orcullo with the 8.

Mack

SSach said:
Hopefully this can be a good thread...

I remember reading once that Keith McCready wore a shirt that had "The world has got the 8" or somthing to that affect... did he ever offer it?. If so that is very impressive, especially if he took the cheese. I also hear alot about how Efren can give anyone 8-10 one pocket and is still the favorite.

Now we hear how great Orcullo is, but I am curious... is he good enough to give the world the 8... Is there anyone out there right now that can offer the World the 8?
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Several pinoy players and 2 asian players were giving any american player the 8 and 9 playing 10 ball at this years US open and they took down all but 1 that played and that was SVB
 
Stones said:
Maybe Jay can confirm or deny this.

Back in the 80's, I heard Efren and Kim Davenport matched up with Davenport getting the seven for 10 dimes in a race to 10.

Efren was ahead by a score of 6 or 7 to 0 when Efren put a murderous, no air to breath safety on Kim.

The story I heard was Kim walked over and looked at the layout for a minute, picked up his stick, unscrewed, and walked out.

Like I said, I have no confirmation on this.

Jay?
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I've never heard this story, and Jay would know whether or not it's true, but that sure doesn't sound like Kim Davenport to me.
 
smashmouth said:
hasn't Efren been known to offer the 6,7,and 8, to guys at Bartrum's level?
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Good morning all!

Along this same line, a few years ago I was talking with a pro player who said that at a tournament in California Efren offered anyone in the world the 8, and was willing to make it the 7 if they'd let Bustamante be his designated breaker.

Just passing it along!

Paul
 
jay helfert said:
To add to what Ironman said, at this level the Eight Ball means very little. It might show up once every thirty or forty games.
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That was just what i was thinking,the 8 means virtually nothing at that level of play.:cool:
 
jay helfert said:
To add to what Ironman said, at this level the Eight Ball means very little. It might show up once every thirty or forty games.

I doubt that Dennis would give any spot to players like Alex or Ronnie or Busty. They wouldn't ask for it either. But as far as the rest of the world is concerned, the Eight wouldn't help them, as Chris Bartrum showed in Louisville.

I seriously doubt he would give Johnny or Rodney the Eight Ball, but he may offer them the Nine in Ten Ball. Either way, if he made the game with them, I would bet on who I think is the better player. And right now, that's Dennis.

Players like Yang will keep challenging Dennis for World supremacy. Because that is what you do when you are trying to be the best. For the same reason that golfers want to challenge Tiger and tennis players want to play Roger Federer.

Dennis is The Man right now, because he runs out a little better and a little more consistently than anyone else. He has yet to show any chinks in his armor, getting stronger as the match progresses. In a single short race during a tournament, other top players may win against him. But if they play long enough, he becomes the favorite.

And by the way, for those who say he isn't a tournament player, I disagree.
He won four big tournaments last year with strong fields. The World Pool League, Hard Times 9-Ball, U.S. Bar Table Eight Ball and the Oroville Bar Table Eight Ball. None of the above were even mildly easy to win, as Dennis had to beat several top players in each.

If he continues to play tournaments (which he will), he will win more than his share. If they played Ten Ball, he might start to look like Tiger.
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Just to add to what Jay says, when we were In Reno last year, I thought Dennis was the smoothest I had seen in many years. He was within 24 -30 inches away from the object ball all week long.
 
stolz2 said:
At this point in time he might be. Although, I have a few players, i would back against Orcullo with the 8.

Mack
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You should have no problem getting a game.
 
Stones said:
Maybe Jay can confirm or deny this.

Back in the 80's, I heard Efren and Kim Davenport matched up with Davenport getting the seven for 10 dimes in a race to 10.

Efren was ahead by a score of 6 or 7 to 0 when Efren put a murderous, no air to breath safety on Kim.

The story I heard was Kim walked over and looked at the layout for a minute, picked up his stick, unscrewed, and walked out.

Like I said, I have no confirmation on this.

Jay?
Click to expand...

Efren did beat Kim with weight, along with several others who he played in the first couple of trips here. I don't recall the story you're referring to. I suspect if that happened, it was in the last game, when Efren needed one game to win.
 
What is Earl doing?
Why doesn't he try a money match with Dennis?
A long money match might just be what he needs.
He just might regain confidence that he lost.

Earl at his best versus Orcullo or Yang today. Who would win?
I know he narrowly lost to Reyes in their race to 120 match, but he did have the upper hand most of the time.
I still think Earl is the best 9baller ever...:o
 
Did Rodney and Dennis ever match up?

I agree Shane plays a mean game of pool for the money.:)
 
I'd play Dennis some cheap sets.....at straight pool! :D

I'll even give him 8 balls start and the break! ;)
 
SSach said:
Hopefully this can be a good thread...

I remember reading once that Keith McCready wore a shirt that had "The world has got the 8" or somthing to that affect... did he ever offer it?....
Click to expand...

Yes, he did. Most of Keith's triumphs were on a bar table with a big cue ball. It was during an era when the rules were two-foul/push-out, and 9-ball wasn't quite the luck game that it is today.

First time Efren was steered to Keith in California, Keith offered him that game on a bar table, but Efren's backers wouldn't allow it. He would only play Keith on the 9-footers.

I knew Keith should have copyrighted or patented that slogan! :D

Carry on, my fellow readers! :p

JAM
 
Ok, here's my thoughts

The more modern players have a better breakshot than the generations before them. They also jump balls better and play better defense. They're not better shotmakers or position players except at One Pocket, where the top players get behind balls at the other end of the table like nobody's business.
Keith, Buddy and Nick were practically unbeatable in the 70's and 80's. Keith, for the dough, COULD probably have given any player a little something. He regularly gave A players games like the orange crush (the 5 and the break) and demolished them; case in point, Harley once got the 6 and the break on the bar table and promptly lost about $15,000. Then he hunted Keith down to play some more and got broke again.
Nobody ever beat Buddy for the money in an extended match. There are some top players who didn't beat Nick for 5 or 6 years at any game.
But things have definitely changed. Many of the American guys are scared of the Philipinos and almost admit defeat before playing, which is a disgrace to me. I chide them as often as I can but it's a tough sell, to get them to believe that they play as well as anyone in the world. I mean, C'mon, isn't Archer gonna put packages together and Duell and if Johnny gets to rack the balls against anyone, I REALLY like him.
 
Grady said:
The more modern players have a better breakshot than the generations before them. They also jump balls better and play better defense. They're not better shotmakers or position players except at One Pocket, where the top players get behind balls at the other end of the table like nobody's business.
Keith, Buddy and Nick were practically unbeatable in the 70's and 80's. Keith, for the dough, COULD probably have given any player a little something. He regularly gave A players games like the orange crush (the 5 and the break) and demolished them; case in point, Harley once got the 6 and the break on the bar table and promptly lost about $15,000. Then he hunted Keith down to play some more and got broke again.
Nobody ever beat Buddy for the money in an extended match. There are some top players who didn't beat Nick for 5 or 6 years at any game.
But things have definitely changed. Many of the American guys are scared of the Philipinos and almost admit defeat before playing, which is a disgrace to me. I chide them as often as I can but it's a tough sell, to get them to believe that they play as well as anyone in the world. I mean, C'mon, isn't Archer gonna put packages together and Duell and if Johnny gets to rack the balls against anyone, I REALLY like him.
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Just a wee bit more volume please.

If Johnny gets to rack??? LMAO!!!
 
JAM said:
I knew Keith should have copyrighted or patented that slogan! :D

JAM
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Maybe not the whole slogan though right Jam ;)

--------------------
Grady, the Harley you speak of...Harley Bryant?? I would have bet everything in my pocket if Keith was giving Harley Bryant the lime crush on a bar box. wow thats STRONG.

Johnny getting to rack..... hilarious....
 
jay helfert said:
To add to what Ironman said, at this level the Eight Ball means very little. It might show up once every thirty or forty games.

I doubt that Dennis would give any spot to players like Alex or Ronnie or Busty. They wouldn't ask for it either. But as far as the rest of the world is concerned, the Eight wouldn't help them, as Chris Bartrum showed in Louisville.

I seriously doubt he would give Johnny or Rodney the Eight Ball, but he may offer them the Nine in Ten Ball. Either way, if he made the game with them, I would bet on who I think is the better player. And right now, that's Dennis.

Players like Yang will keep challenging Dennis for World supremacy. Because that is what you do when you are trying to be the best. For the same reason that golfers want to challenge Tiger and tennis players want to play Roger Federer.

Dennis is The Man right now, because he runs out a little better and a little more consistently than anyone else. He has yet to show any chinks in his armor, getting stronger as the match progresses.Jay,

You are on the money about Dennis O. I had the opportunity to have a talk with Shane V this past Saturday. We talked about his Derby days. Shane said he matched up 11 times at the Derby and only booked one loser. I asked him why nobody can beat Dennis for the cash and his answer was focus&confidence.

Like you said and I paraphrase "the weight Dennis is willing to give up isn't enough" and the result is he is not getting any action. The Catch-22 of being the 'best money player' is nobody wants any part of him unless he gives up the mortal nuts, which he is smart enough not to give up. Oh, the irony of it all...:) In a single short race during a tournament, other top players may win against him. But if they play long enough, he becomes the favorite.

And by the way, for those who say he isn't a tournament player, I disagree.
He won four big tournaments last year with strong fields. The World Pool League, Hard Times 9-Ball, U.S. Bar Table Eight Ball and the Oroville Bar Table Eight Ball. None of the above were even mildly easy to win, as Dennis had to beat several top players in each.

If he continues to play tournaments (which he will), he will win more than his share. If they played Ten Ball, he might start to look like Tiger.
Click to expand...

..........................adding required characters....LOL :)
 
Is it the players? Or the backers?
Guys that back players like Johnny, Corey, and Rodney don't want a game that tough. And I doubt any of those guys have bet their own money in ages. Are they afraid? Or is the money just too hard?
 
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