Theory About The Break

[Post First]

i wanna know cause i break pretty good..how many balls do you guys pocket on the break? I average 2/3 and a good amount of squatting the rock..But i practice with the break rak..I find that its the timing that generates the power on the break not strength..I can still bench over 325 and do dumbell inclines with 120's so i know that i am strong but when i tried to break with just arm strength..its a totally different result...just my two cents...imho:grin:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I average 2/3

I'll bet money that you don't.

pj
chgo

 

[8ball-alex]

i wanna know cause i break pretty good..how many balls do you guys pocket on the break? I average 2/3 and a good amount of squatting the rock..

On the most, 6 balls has disappeared from the table when i was breaking, from the last league-tournament I had an average of 3/4 in my best match, and 2/3 in the rest. But it all depends on the table, and the racking. This was really good 9ft tables with new cloth, and the tables was tapped. Ofc if you use more power on the break, and hits the rack really good its most likely that more balls will drop down.

Last summer I uploaded a vid of my break, maybe I do it all wrong, but it works like hell for me, and I dont use that mutch power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAZpkzQaRKM

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Shane's break is the clearest illustration of the most important element in a power break: straightening the arm for more "leverage" and using the shoulder muscles to move it with more force/speed. All the body movement does is raise the shoulder so that can happen. All the rest is secondary.

pj
chgo

Interesting point on the straight arm relative to rising, one I'd not looked at closely. I wonder how close to straight mine gets. I watched this SVB video over and over and it doesn't appear he ever gets it 100% straight, but it sure gets very close if it doesn't get all the way. I wish I could watch it in slow motion. The role of his wrist provides some serious application of added torque along specific points in the sequence. POP!

I get my new camera in 4 days and plan on using it!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCBs6T2kMI

 

[9 ball]

I am sorry folks but I still cannot see how nearly kicking yourself in the rear end is going to improve your breaking, I also cannot understand why people still believe using your legs & lower body are essential even after the video of svb breaking shows quite clearly it is not. The power comes from the arms and to suggest otherwise is just plain silly.

 

[center pocket]

FYI I havent said anything about kicking or moving your lower body at all. I mention a transfer in weight, which is from the hips up.

 

[2.5 pack]

I am sorry folks but I still cannot see how nearly kicking yourself in the rear end is going to improve your breaking, I also cannot understand why people still believe using your legs & lower body are essential even after the video of svb breaking shows quite clearly it is not. The power comes from the arms and to suggest otherwise is just plain silly.

SVB getting up on the stroke is all part of the timing of the body. You think if he just started stroking standing up instead of starting low he would break as hard? If you see a front view of his break you will see his hips going into it.
If you really think it is all in just the arm stroke then name some players that have powerful breaks with no body movement.
When players kick up it is just to help them balance with the forward motion. The kick naturally comes up when all your momentum is going forward.

 

[brandoncook26]

I can't post a link right now, but if you go to YouTube and type in Van Boening break there is a video of one of the best breaks I have ever seen. It is 26 seconds long. He gets his hips into it, but it is much more about the timing than the power. He is not overly powerful, but every part of his body comes together at the right time. I apologize if this video is linked already, I can't look right now.

Timing is the key to a perfect break.

 

[Scott Lee]

9 ball...I have to disagree with you here. The golf swing and the pool swing are essentially the same. Both are a circle, where you strike the ball at the bottom of the circle (based on stance, swing range of motion, grip pressure, and grip position). Both utilize the weight of the cue/club and TIMING. Golf is no more about strength than pool is. The golf drive is about club head speed and perfect timing...not strength. So is the pool break. Otherwise the best drivers in golf and the best breakers in pool would be 800 lb. gorillas. They are not. The thing that makes a perfect golf swing more difficult is the fact that you turn your body, hands and arms. In pool nothing needs to move, except the forearm gripping the cue. The cuestick is 3x the weight of the CB...plenty to generate a ton of energy, using just the cuestick and a perfectly timed swing.

To the OP...you have, as dr9ball accurately put it, "hit the nail on the head". Extra movement only serves to decrease accuracy, and make a transfer of energy from the cuestick to the CB, more difficult. Why do the pros do it differently? Because they have spent YEARS perfecting their personal thing. That doesn't mean that it makes sense to try and copy it. Do what is simple and easy. Let the cue do the work!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I am sorry centre pocket but the comparison between a golf swing and the movement of a pool cue during the break shot is not a proper comparison:

Golfers NEED to use the force generated from there hips to propel the ball because are having to cover a vast distance right from the off.

 

[mosconiac]

Well hell, we have the best breakers in the world right here in this thread! 2/3 and even 3/4 balls a break?!?! Let's hit the road cause there aint a MF'er in the world that can beat you two. I'll draw them in with my measly 1-2 every rack & step outta da way for you two.

When that well dries up, I'll sucker them back in with my 9-on-the-snap trick. Sh!t you not, I can make it at will...but I choose not to during tourney play just for the challenge you know.

 

[paksat]

well by your reasoning, what does jumping have to do with a jumpshot since it is a forward motion with arms only?

All a basketball players range comes from their legs.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You think if [Shane] just started stroking standing up instead of starting low he would break as hard?

Yes.

pj
chgo

 

[gpeezy]

We have a ton of how to break threads. When it comes down to it, if you want to break the balls just like you are shooting a normal shot, do it. If you want and can use some/all of your body, do it. The same is not going to work for everyone. I will say, if you are gonna break anything past 17 mph ( a guess) something is gonna have to move other than your forearm. IMO

 

[Post First]

you know whats funny about these threads is that most people just sit on the sidelines and talk smack about somebody elses contribution,,Patrick Johnson trust me my man anybody that knows me knows that i break like king kong.. so i dont have to bull anybody for internet respect..So that being said heres something else you can bet on since you are a gambling man,,I bet you that i beat Louis Ulrich ..3 to nothing playing one hole in a race to three and his combined score was no more than 8 balls for the whole set...ill bet you that i beat Shannon daulton in a breaking contest at valley forge and my mph was at least 4 to 5 higher that my closest competitor...You see my man anything and everything does happen in pool just because it doesnt happen for you dont make it less true..Matter of fact come to jersey ...me and you can have a break contest and see whats up then champ...Anyway i want to thank all of the other posters who have something positive to add to these threads ..also cudos to the naysayers and knowitalls who make a boring day enjoyable...:smile:

 

[sfleinen]

Jon Kucharo break compared to Evgeny Stalev break -- 2 opposite ends of the spectrum

I'll take this all day long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDUfFDByvOM

<shakes head in respectful disagreement> Not me. Although Jon Kucharo *does* have a very strong break, he looks like he took a .22 calibre hollow point right behind the ear, and did an abbreviated version of the death throes.

Or, it looks like some high speed machinery with a critical component failing in mid-flight, and the whole contraption going HORRIBLY wrong, with nuts, bolts, and pieces of metal flying out in all directions. "Duck!! Or risk taking a cotter pin right in the eye!"

Although a strong break, that's an AWFUL lot of body movement and flailing going on. I don't think Jon could keep pace during long sessions with a break like that -- or at least not without popping some joints out of sockets.

I agree with those that posted video of Evgeny Stalev breaking -- probably the smoothest style for the sheer amount of power he puts into it. And, to me, it just looks "so correct" for some reason; a gentle wind-up (like a clock spring), a little twist of the hips to turn the body slightly to the right, thereby allowing the arm to wind up farther and engage the right-side pectoral (chest) muscle, and then simultaneously "drifting forward" with the body and a massive snap down and through the bridge hand, to where the cue's joint almost passes through the bridge hand.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PkCG3q2PDa4#t=560

Poetry in motion!

-Sean

 

[gpeezy]

you know whats funny about these threads is that most people just sit on the sidelines and talk smack about somebody elses contribution,,Patrick Johnson trust me my man anybody that knows me knows that i break like king kong.. so i dont have to bull anybody for internet respect..So that being said heres something else you can bet on since you are a gambling man,,I bet you that i beat Louis Ulrich ..3 to nothing playing one hole in a race to three and his combined score was no more than 8 balls for the whole set...ill bet you that i beat Shannon daulton in a breaking contest at valley forge and my mph was at least 4 to 5 higher that my closest competitor...You see my man anything and everything does happen in pool just because it doesnt happen for you dont make it less true..Matter of fact come to jersey ...me and you can have a break contest and see whats up then champ...Anyway i want to thank all of the other posters who have something positive to add to these threads ..also cudos to the naysayers and knowitalls who make a boring day enjoyable...:smile:

Averaging 2/3 is strong enough to make a train take a dirt road. Thats why he made that comment. You may not have meant it as literal as he took it, or you may have. That is an impressive average however.

 

[Post First]

you are right my man my bad it sounds like all the time not true but it happens alot..the breakrak makes a big difference..thank you for pointing out my error and my apologies to mr johnson....

 

[8ball-alex]

Well hell, we have the best breakers in the world right here in this thread! 2/3 and even 3/4 balls a break?!?! Let's hit the road cause there aint a MF'er in the world that can beat you two. I'll draw them in with my measly 1-2 every rack & step outta da way for you two.

When that well dries up, I'll sucker them back in with my 9-on-the-snap trick. Sh!t you not, I can make it at will...but I choose not to during tourney play just for the challenge you know.

Have to say I might misunderstood the whole thing. I had an average little over 3 balls falling on the break in a match. Not an average of 6.
My bad

 

[Scott Lee]

BET George! I've got a radar gun (we had a conversation about this in the past...about your average break speed), and I'll prove to you that I can generate more than 17 mph, without anything other than the weight of the cue and good timing. :grin: This time I'm going for Ruth's Chris, when I win the bet!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I will say, if you are gonna break anything past 17 mph ( a guess) something is gonna have to move other than your forearm. IMO

 

[Bob Jewett]

BET George! I've got a radar gun (we had a conversation about this in the past...about your average break speed), and I'll prove to you that I can generate more than 17 mph, without anything other than the weight of the cue and good timing. ...

If someone wanted to bet on 21MPH (no lunging, no hip movement, maybe a slightly higher stance, no significant elbow drop), I wouldn't bet against them. These days with a tight rack, that's more than enough speed at nine ball.