There is NO KICKING/ BANKING SYSTEM!! 😤😤

If they have a bank pool game.

The lack of tournament level kick pool games means, those shots are too challenging.

It might be lots of missing before you see shots get pocketed.

And practicing those shots are not worth it if you play the popular games.
 
Golly Gee Goober...............Tell Efrem, and the rest of the world too, to become better acquainted with Willie Hoppe's book on billiards and then go practice the cue ball tracks.
 
Bigkat said:
Efren was asked do you use a "system" for banks/kicks he looked so confused LOL. He said "no no no system...Practice practice I practice all the time I shoot dsame shot over and over til I know where ball go" I AGREE WITH EFREN!! ✊✊ #Practice
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Thank you Justin.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Actually that is false. In Efren's prime, the fibers in the cloth were made of a slightly higher density filament, which allowed the ball to spin at a much faster rate of speed. This, in turn, allowed Efren to pull off some amazing trick shots that just wouldn't be possible on today's poly-carbon density cloth without the use of a system.

Ask yourself this question. Why aren't there any recent videos of Efren shooting an amazing kick?
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Ya're kidding right ?
 
While someone might not use a formal kicking system and the diamonds all kicking uses fundamental understanding of angles and the effects of cue ball spin. Trigonometry itself is a "system" and noone is banking well without at least a subconscious understanding of it's basic principles. I doubt there is a player alive who has shot a lot of pool who has never used a diamond on the table or look at a point on the rail to help them line up a kick.

There are a lot of kick shots where you cannot even see the object ball you are kicking when you are down in your stroke so you are not shooting "that" shot on pure feel.
 
He has a system. However, it is in his head. Every time he walks around the table and figures out a bank or kick shot he uses it. More than likely, he has done it so many times all or most of the calculations and adjustments are done subconsciously.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Actually that is false. In Efren's prime, the fibers in the cloth were made of a slightly higher density filament, which allowed the ball to spin at a much faster rate of speed. This, in turn, allowed Efren to pull off some amazing trick shots that just wouldn't be possible on today's poly-carbon density cloth without the use of a system.

Ask yourself this question. Why aren't there any recent videos of Efren shooting an amazing kick?
Click to expand...
You aren't serious,or, are you?
 
Bavafongoul said:
Golly Gee Goober...............Tell Efrem, and the rest of the world too, to become better acquainted with Willie Hoppe's book on billiards and then go practice the cue ball tracks.
Click to expand...


I take your point but consider this from the late Robert Byrnes's "McGoorty The Story of a Billiard Bum"" one of the great books on billiards:

#####
“In Hoppe’s book on how to play billiards is a long section on the diamond system, charts showing how to count the spots on the rails and figure out where to aim by using arithmetic. Now that is a joke, because he was not a system player. I went out to the Navy Pier one morning during the 1950 tournament to practice and there was Hoppe all alone in the hall. He had the book open and was shooting shots from the diagrams... trying out the system. He looked up at me and said, “You know, Dan, it works. But you need a perfect stroke.’

Those charts were put in the book by Bryon Schoeman and a lot of them are haywire. Sometimes one of my students will show me the book and say, ‘Look at this McGoorty. Hoppe says you can hit the rail here and end up there.’

‘My boy,’ I say, ‘it can’t be done. Those charts are just pretty pictures.’

Not only did Hoppe not use the diamond system, he had nothing to do with developing it. That was done by Copulus, Layton, and Clarence Jackson.

Guys like Hoppe, Cochran, and Schaefer, they knew the table so well, all the angles, all the returns, they didn’t need to use any system. They could get four out of two by elevating the cue a little and putting a touch of masse on the ball. The system? What system? f*ck the system.’”
#####

Lou Figueroa
 
Bigkat said:
I definitely understand using some type of system as a guide but no system is more effective than playing continuously and knowing how balls react from what angles etc. My point was that Efren rose to his level without "systems".
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Efren did have a system. It starts with sleeping under a pool table from the age of about 7 and then quitting school a little later.
 
realkingcobra said:
Stick to what ever else you think you know, because you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to pool cloth. Nylon was introduced into the weave of woven wool pool cloth way before Efren was even born. What's changed over the years is the marketing of a worsted woolen cloth over a woven woolen cloth. Championship Titan cloth is almost identical to the cloth on pool tables when Efren was growing up playing pool, so it's still around.
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Right on...You beat me to it.
 
lfigueroa said:
I take your point but consider this from the late Robert Byrnes's "McGoorty The Story of a Billiard Bum"" one of the great books on billiards:

#####
“In Hoppe’s book on how to play billiards is a long section on the diamond system, charts showing how to count the spots on the rails and figure out where to aim by using arithmetic. Now that is a joke, because he was not a system player. I went out to the Navy Pier one morning during the 1950 tournament to practice and there was Hoppe all alone in the hall. He had the book open and was shooting shots from the diagrams... trying out the system. He looked up at me and said, “You know, Dan, it works. But you need a perfect stroke.’

Those charts were put in the book by Bryon Schoeman and a lot of them are haywire. Sometimes one of my students will show me the book and say, ‘Look at this McGoorty. Hoppe says you can hit the rail here and end up there.’

‘My boy,’ I say, ‘it can’t be done. Those charts are just pretty pictures.’

Not only did Hoppe not use the diamond system, he had nothing to do with developing it. That was done by Copulus, Layton, and Clarence Jackson.

Guys like Hoppe, Cochran, and Schaefer, they knew the table so well, all the angles, all the returns, they didn’t need to use any system. They could get four out of two by elevating the cue a little and putting a touch of masse on the ball. The system? What system? f*ck the system.’”
#####

Lou Figueroa
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:thumbup2:...at least someone knows the skinny...
 
Whomever drew the diagrams in Willie's book, they are accurate and the tracks hold true.
The diamond system works and as long as you adhere to the difference in values for the
short and long rails and just do the math, which really is pretty basic & simple, you're fine.
Nonetheless, the shooter has to use his "judgement" how to play the exact shot before him.
 
Bavafongoul said:
Golly Gee Goober...............Tell Efrem, and the rest of the world too, to become better acquainted with Willie Hoppe's book on billiards and then go practice the cue ball tracks.
Click to expand...

Anybody that believes Efren doesn't have a system for just about every aspect of his game is blind.
If he said he had systems , he would never get any rest from all the wannabes asking him to show them.
This way, you have to spend a lifetime with other great players, and pick up a little here and a little there, and figure it out the way he did.
 
Bavafongoul said:
Whomever drew the diagrams in Willie's book, they are accurate and the tracks hold true.
The diamond system works and as long as you adhere to the difference in values for the
short and long rails and just do the math, which really is pretty basic & simple, you're fine.
Nonetheless, the shooter has to use his "judgement" how to play the exact shot before him.
Click to expand...


McGoorty was just under world class and knew what he was talking about when it came to 3C. And basically, he said some of the diagrams in Hoppe's book were ca-ca.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
McGoorty was just under world class and knew what he was talking about when it came to 3C. And basically, he said some of the diagrams in Hoppe's book were ca-ca.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
The diagrams were drawn to make the simple arithmetic look right. The diagrams were not made to match how tables work. See Byrne's books for more info on how to partly fix the basic corner-5 system and how to correct for a short or long table.
 
For those of you that are interested there is an excellent youtube channel here: 3 Cushion Billards Channel

There are instructional series by Blomdahl, Caudron, Sanchez and others. There are a variety of systems and methods demonstrated and discussed. Those guys are well aware of all of the variables mentioned in this thread and demonstrate how to apply them.

I take an Ipad with these loaded and go to the billiards table and practice them on the weekends. I am fortunate to have access to a table and a teacher for the last year and a half.

You might also look up Efren playing 3 cushion billiards on youtube. I always heard that billiards is Efrens best game. I can see where he learned to kick the way he does.
 
That can take a long time to figure out. Then it also doesn't factor all situations out. I use a system and I make 80% of all my banks and kicks. That is one heck of a conversion rate... but most of the older players did it by feel and had no idea what they were doing with banks and kicks. They just did it well enough. They also would cut way more due to not banking confidently.

Kind Regards,
Michael McDonald
Shooters Billiard Supply
www.shootersbilliardsupply.com
Player: Two Feather Anasazi by Viking Pool Cues (11 of 150)
Shaft: ViKore Shaft by Viking Pool Cues
Break: Predator Break 3 Pool Cue
Jump: Air 2 by Predator Pool Cues
Case: Instroke 3x5 Southwest Black Pool Cue Case
Table: Diamond Pro Am 9 ft with Aramith Tourney TV Pool Balls
 
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