Thes best 2010 US OPEN Interview...
- Thread starter UGETTHE6
- Start date
9-ball has been popular with the players. It has been the main game in this sport over a period of almost continuous decline and is very clearly not working for the public.
People on this forum, pool fans say it is the wrong game and to switch to 10-ball.
The general public completely ignore pool and have been tuning out more and more for decades.
And yet some people just wont let go and attempt to act like 9-ball is working at all for this sport. It is not, this sport is nowhere. How anyone could say 9-ball is actually working is beyond me.
It is even getting old for people who are actually commited to this sport to the point that they post on AZBilliards and are probably a group of the most commited pool fans in existence.
I mean if my nickname was "9-ball" I might feel differently...
9-ball has been popular with the players. It has been the main game in this sport over a period of almost continuous decline and is very clearly not working for the public.
People on this forum, pool fans say it is the wrong game and to switch to 10-ball.
The general public completely ignore pool and have been tuning out more and more for decades.
And yet some people just wont let go and attempt to act like 9-ball is working at all for this sport. It is not, this sport is nowhere. How anyone could say 9-ball is actually working is beyond me.
It is even getting old for people who are actually commited to this sport to the point that they post on AZBilliards and are probably a group of the most commited pool fans in existence.
I mean if my nickname was "9-ball" I might feel differently...
I hate to be redundant of my previous posts, but it goes back to the need for more 8 Ball tournaments. That game is well understood by most of the general public. Additionally, I find it very interesting to watch great players play 8 ball
Rack your own is wrong, dead wrong. I can't enjoy the game knowing that they make themselves a much more easier rack. They are supposed to be pros, not hustlers. Watch this match rack your own from Eurotour. How many racks they put 1234 in front in the same place...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKEPYVtxWuQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKEPYVtxWuQ
All I need to see is Pinegar spinning, racking, fingering, finagling, rubbing cloth, and pushing a ten-ball rack 61 times while playing SVB. Same game, same issues. 9 ball = 10 ball. Hogwash is right. Good post Neil.
As discussed ad nauseam, rack your own is a solution to the problem of arguments and fights over racking. That is, in an un-officiated match. Doesn't mean it's the best or doesn't have its flaws. A ref doing the racking is obviously the best solution. But as Raj admits, refs cost money. If you can't have refs on each match, then can you find a better solution? It's either rack your own and dealing with the trick-shot artists, or opponent racks and deal with endless rack inspections, arguments and fights. Choose.
It is true that the break in 9-ball is essentially a trick shot. This has become more apparent as quality of equipment has improved and new implements have been invented. Nice brand new Simonis and a nice brand new set of Super Aramith Pros...wingball in the corner mania. Slightly worn conditions? Magic rack! Wingball mania again. You get the idea. Old timers didn't have that. They didn't have such good conditions. Cloth, tables and balls weren't as perfect. Power break was essential to increasing one's chances of making a ball on the break. The new generation, led by guys like Corey are simply adapting to the realities of the modern game. Can't fault them or look down on them for looking out for their own. They got bills to pay too. As Mr. Incardona says, deal with it. It's not going away because I don't see all events having 100% refereed matches and radar guns on every table to enforce "power breaking" which would have to be defined by a MPH standard - happening any time in the foreseeable future.
It is true that the break in 9-ball is essentially a trick shot. This has become more apparent as quality of equipment has improved and new implements have been invented. Nice brand new Simonis and a nice brand new set of Super Aramith Pros...wingball in the corner mania. Slightly worn conditions? Magic rack! Wingball mania again. You get the idea. Old timers didn't have that. They didn't have such good conditions. Cloth, tables and balls weren't as perfect. Power break was essential to increasing one's chances of making a ball on the break. The new generation, led by guys like Corey are simply adapting to the realities of the modern game. Can't fault them or look down on them for looking out for their own. They got bills to pay too. As Mr. Incardona says, deal with it. It's not going away because I don't see all events having 100% refereed matches and radar guns on every table to enforce "power breaking" which would have to be defined by a MPH standard - happening any time in the foreseeable future.
Paul:
If you'll recall (sounds like you were either there like me, or else were watching the stream), it was very obvious that what Pinegar was doing was precisely and specifically to get back at Frank DelPizo. It was revenge on John's part, to get back at Frank DelPizo for ripping into him for continually getting out of his seat and standing too close to the table while Shane was racking and subsequently playing. And, John was racking too high -- that wasn't a "he's picking on me!" groundless claim by John, either. John wasn't making sure the bottom platen of the racking product in use at the time (Accu-Rack) was planted firmly on the foot rail. Subsequently, the head ball in the rack was far above the foot spot -- in many cases when John would remove the Accu-Rack and attempt to walk over to retrieve his break cue (he was intercepted by Frank DelPizo, of course), the foot-spot was actually between the head ball and the next row of balls! (I played in that tournament, and I'm very familiar with Accu-Rack and how to use it. Plus, I was only a couple feet away in the first row of VIP seats and witnessed things that viewers of the stream could not see because they happened just out of view of the stream camera.)
You take John's belabored manipulation of the rack, balls, and cloth as a "complaint" or an "issue" about the 10-ball rack. It wasn't, in actuality. It was petty revenge against the T.D. -- and it was plainly obvious to everyone that was there.
Sorry, but I would say this "example of convenience" that you use has no merit. Again, I ask anyone to show actual complaints from players that were knocked out of a 10-ball tourney about the type of racking/breaking shenanigans we see and hear about in 9-ball tourneys. My challenge stands.
Respectfully,
-Sean
Last edited:
I agree with this. Trudeau did get that part right. 8 ball resonates with the general public far more than any other game. When I was a young kid, I thought that 8 ball was the ONLY pool game. I think that the general public would be more interested in watching pros play this familiar game. They don't have to learn any major new rules and can see some great shotmaking and strategies at a game they already understand. I doubt that racking would be as much of an issue in 8 ball also. If I had any promo money to throw at this game, I would go all in on 8 ball.
Let's get more public interest, THEN we can start talking about the other games. Note that my use of the term "public" refers only to the USA general population. I understand that regions abroad are more accepting and knowledgeable about pool (a la Tiawan, Phillipines). But here in the US, we have a constant pool malaise. Too bad, because at the heart of pool is a game that is challenging, rewarding and readily available to the masses. I mean, a golfer can't have a golf course in their basement. A pool player can have there course in their own home. Sure beats bowling, and look how that activity has fared against pool...
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
The guy spoke with intellegent thought and belief, hats off to Raj. There should be individual refs/rackers at events like this and Im sure there are qualified people that would donate time and effort in exchange for entrance/discounted room rates if reached out for, I for one would step right up.
The truth is that one person could handle about 4 tables without much trouble, so it wouldn't take that much effort.
However, learning how to rack properly is nothing like learning how to referee a pool match. Learning every single rule in the book is no easy task and besides the reffing job is a thankless one. (Doubt the rackers would be getting high fives from the players as well).
I think to save on problems, let the players call a ref when they need one and let there be one racker for every four tables. The players would not be allowed to peek at the racks.
The players don't want a perfect rack, all balls touching (unless they are breaking) or they would be using a Magic Rack or similar rack. jmo.........Also, with the Magic Rack, the 9 Ball has a hard time moving out of the area of the rack (I've never seen a 9 ball on the break in the two far corner pockets using a Magic Rack) unless it is impacted by a ball that has been banked or kicked into it; even then, the nine MIGHT have a very small chance of finding it's way into one of the other four pockets every twenty games or so.
Like Billy said, ALTERNATE THE BREAK.
I agree with most of what you say, but not the break. Winner break is the best format, IMO. I think the viewing public wants to see packages. Can't event string two with alternating break. I would even love to see a player get shut out for the whole set. I know that the players differ on this, but pool needs to cater to the viewing public if they ever want to have a piece of the pie. Right now, the pie is so small that no pro player (however you define the term "pro") can survive. Let's increase the size of the pie so that more and larger pieces can be served...
It is time to alternate the break...I know we love winner breaks but they have ruined it...alternate and let them throw shots at each other.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but is seems like the Mosconi Cup generates some great buzz and tends to do well. How about some more team events? Would that help the sport?
I think you're on to something here Voodoo!
In pro golf tournaments, each hole is marshalled and forecaddied by volunteers. Scorers are volunteers. In fact, 90% of the tournament staff is volunteer. I think enough volunteers could be arranged to provide racks that are unbiased for all the matches. (Although I'm thinking about how much crap I'd be willing to take off of some of these guys whining about my racks.....)
In any case, I'd step up with you. Only thing you'd need to give me would be a pass for that day.
Jay Helfert, what are your thoughts on this idea?
Brian in VA
Folks:
If we're so staunchly defending the 9-ball rack (seemingly for the purposes of keeping the "number of object balls in play" to the very specific number of "9," and not taking the simple step of changing the shape of the rack by adding a 10th ball), then why don't we dispense with the rack altogether?
I forget where I saw it (I'm getting "licks-dexic" in my old age
), but someone -- perhaps RealKingCobra? -- mentioned using a pillow case in another thread. Put all 9 balls and the cue ball in the pillow case, shake/swirl it around a bit, and dump the pillow case straight down onto the table (i.e. not towards any particular pocket).An extension of this idea is that you can even rig one of those "packing peanuts dumping machines" over the center of the table, place the 9 balls + cue ball into it, open the bottom chute, and let the balls fall onto the center of the table from a very short height. Then just wheel the packing peanuts dumping machine away to the side and begin play. It would be the T.D.'s discretion as to whether Paul Schofield's "No Conflict" rules of the "breaker" (packing peanuts dumping machine handle puller, in our case) stays at the table whether a ball is made or not.
I think this should prove to be a non-manipulative way to the process of randomizing the spread of the balls onto the table, without introducing the human element of "hacking the rack" into it, and without getting into these silly defenses of an obviously now-flawed procedure of randomizing the spread of 9 balls onto the table.
While part of this is tongue-in-cheek (i.e. that we have to go to a pillow case or packing peanuts dumping machine to replace the rack?); the major share of it I mean with seriousness. If we can't come to consensus, perhaps a complete replacement of the rack itself is in order, just so we can keep the quantity of object balls to the very specific number of "9" that people seem so protective of?
Thoughts?
-Sean
Last edited:
I agree that back then 9 ball was a great game but wasn't this match before the Corey Deuel soft break era? Wasn't this before pattern racking and finangaling? and not to mention rack bit#$ing?
i don't understand why people are against soft break, actually you are against a break where the controll is very important in favor of a break with 30% skill and 70% luck involved. Just make the cloth play slower and you don't have that kind of problem... plus the players are forced to hit the shot harder so it is easier to miss and you don't need to tighten up the pockets to make the table plays harder.
Is useless imho all this kind of rules, 3 ball past the headstring, no soft break, etc..
Is useless imho all this kind of rules, 3 ball past the headstring, no soft break, etc..