I guess this old cow is on the "udder" side of the fence on this one. I do agree with some of what he said. There should be a neutral racker to avoid rack rigging; should be winner breaks, gotta see those packages!
As to the break speed, hogwash. I couldn't help but notice that he was somewhat knocking Donny and Corey for practicing the break while he was standing there giving an interview! Maybe if he practiced his break, he wouldn't be so upset about it.
The break is a shot, just like any other shot in the game. You have to practice shotmaking, kicks, banks, safeties, AND the break. I find it rather amusing, that when Efren and Jose came over, everyone started commenting on their kicking ability. Then, they started practicing their own kicks, and brought that level of their game up.
But, with the break, few seem to want to practice it. So, guys like Shane, Donny, and Corey get an edge on them, and then they want to complain about that edge. A few of the pros have done exactly what a pro is supposed to do. That is, take a "wild" part of the game, study it, and turn it into an advantage over the others. And, for that, they get called riggers and wussies.
Hi Neil!
First, great post! Nicely thought out and written.
Second, you're putting Shane into the same mix with Corey and Donny. I don't think that was an appropriate grouping. Shane will be the first person to tell you that he works on his 10-ball break, and he much prefers 10-ball over 9-ball any day. He'll tell you that. In fact, when he was over in the Phillipines and Efren wanted to gamble with Shane, Efren offered up 9-ball, and Shane wise-cracked to the effect of "what's with this wimpy 9-ball? Let's play 10-ball!" There's a thread here on AZB with a play-by-play of this scenario from a witness that was there, but I didn't have the time at the moment to search for it.
Corey is definitely known for reverse-engineering/hacking the 9-ball rack -- there's no doubt about that. And we know Donny's a master of the 9-ball rack as well. I know Corey works on his 10-ball break (not sure about Donny), but I think many will agree here that noone has a 10-ball break like Shane. And if you talk to any pro, you'll hear nothing but praise for it. You won't hear "oh that Shane is such a rack technician -- he soft-breaks those wing balls into the corner pockets every time!" Nope, instead, you see everyone wanting to learn the Shane-patented "pop-and-drop" break. This is not a soft-break by any means -- he's hitting 'em with power, and predictability.
In case some haven't noticed, these same guys that practice the break have already found out how to make a ball in 10 ball also. So, should we now go to 11 ball??
Only 9-ballers say that, Neil. Only 9-ballers trying to defend their game make this kind of comment of "merely adding balls". The point is not the number of balls in the rack -- it's the SHAPE of the rack that's the point of contention. One more ball doesn't make a difference. The only people you'll find making a big deal about that "one extra ball making 'such an incredible difference'" are 9-ballers trying to play 10-ball with Texas Express rules -- they're trying to defend why they're playing 10-ball, but they're also trying to conceal the fact they're not playing "true" 10-ball according to world-standardized rules. To them, the only difference between 9-ball and 10-ball is "that one extra ball" -- so it behooves them to try to defend why adding an extra ball adds a layer of difficulty to the game. To this, I'll borrow your term and say "hogwash."
Part of being a pro is practicing all aspects of the game. If you don't want to do that, then take the disadvantage you have, and live with it.
You bet! All aspects of the game should be practiced, and there's no better example than Shane -- he's got the best 10-ball break in the world precisely because he works on it. And everyone else has taken notice -- they're working on their 10-ball breaks, too. But you won't see the kind of racking/breaking shenanigans going on with 10-ball, that we're seeing in 9-ball. Could there be a vulnerability with the triangular-shaped 10-ball rack, e.g. to make the wing ball into the corners as reliably as in 9-ball? Sure there could. Has anyone found it yet? Nope. And from the history of triangular-shaped racks (e.g. with much older games like 8-ball and 15-ball rotation), noone's found them there either.
As far as everyone saying 9 ball is broken- I say, hogwash. That phrase has been repeated so many times that people are starting to actually believe it. If it was broken, you would see a lot of sets run out. Obviously, you don't. You would see a lot of packages put down. Again, you don't. You do see some, and they are few and far between. And, everyone comments about them because they are so rare. At the pro level, you SHOULD see packages.
Neil, from the matches I've seen (e.g. this past U.S. Open), more often than not, the reason why a player would turn over the table would be either A.) dry break, or B.) scratching off the break. Most everyone I saw was either cut-breaking or soft-breaking. Even Corey, in his match with Warren Kiamco, would turn over the table because he would cross-side scratch on his cut-break. I think that's the main reason why you're not seeing as many packages put together as one would expect.
Everyone says that the "fix" is ten ball. Baloney. Take an honest look at it from the pros perspective- what's actually different? You have one more ball to start things, you have to call your pocket or a safe, no slop. Now, do you really think that at the pro level, one more ball makes that big a difference?? Many will say yes! Bull.
Once again, only 9-ballers trying to play 10-ball with Texas Express rules say things like that -- i.e. making a big deal about that one extra ball. It's a defense mechanism as to why they're playing 10-ball, but not the correct rules. They want to hold onto their beloved Texas Express rules, but they want to join the 10-ball fray, "in some way/shape/fashion." So they glamorize the "oh-so-much-more difficulty" that one extra ball makes. And only 9-ballers vehemently defending 9-ball would make the wise-crack about "11-ball." Gimme a break. It's not the number of balls -- it's the shape of the rack (i.e. triangle vs diamond) that causing all the consternation!
Look at the top ten ball players. They have practiced the break, so they can make a ball on the break about the same percentage they do in 9 ball. Now, you have the max of 9 balls left on the table. Same as a 9 ball rack where a ball wasn't made.
First, let's correct something -- I don't think there's a single 10-ball player out there that can make a ball on their 10-ball break as reliably as a good soft-break/cut-break 9-baller can on a 9-ball break. Not even Shane -- and he'll be the first to tell you that. Let's get that out of the way right here and now.
Second, and for the umteenth time, it's not the number of balls on the table that's making the difference, it's the shape of the rack. The diamond-shaped 9-ball rack, with its wing balls exposed to the corners, is the problem. You don't have this problem with a triangular-shaped rack. Heck, you could probably play "6-ball" racked in a triangle, and not have the issues with the rack as that diamond-shaped 9-ball rack. Again, it's not the number of balls.
You have to call a pocket, does anyone really think that this is a problem for the pros?? They aren't playing whack -a- mole like some amateurs do, they are aiming to make the ball. That, or they are focused on getting that safety. To the real pros, this isn't a problem or hardship at all. It's what they do mentally anyways. The only ones complaining are the lower level players that rely on luck in their game to win.
Maybe there is a point to this -- perhaps there's some sour grapes, I'll grant you that. But let me ask you this: do you hear of these same complaints from the very same players after they were knocked out of a 10-ball match? Please, find me one. I think you won't. There wasn't a single complaint like this from the pros after this year's SBE 10-ball event. The only complaints were about the rack product itself, and certain players propensity to not make sure the bottom platen was planted firmly on the foot rail (i.e. Jon Pinegar getting ripped by T.D. Frank DelPizo for racking "too high").
Bottom line, at the pro level, it's all about NOT making any mistakes. You screw up, you should lose. The break is the same thing. Maybe those complaining about the break should start practicing it like any other shot so they know how to deal with it instead of just slamming them and hoping to get lucky. They want luck on the first shot, and then complain about luck the rest of the game, it doesn't make any sense.
Yup, I agree. But I'll offer this caveat -- practice the break, but without the shenanigans. There currently are no soft-breaking shenanigans with the 10-ball rack, at least not yet. That's not to say someone won't figure out a vulnerability in the future (e.g. Corey), but right now, the most productive 10-ball break on the planet is a HARD one -- a la Shane.
I know you know this, Neil, but my reply is not an attack on you personally. I make no bones about the fact I respect you, and I'm an avid fan of your threads, contributions, and ideas. But I disagree with the 9-ball defenses 100%.
Thanks for the opportunity to engage in intelligent and respectful banter,
-Sean
