Think my stroke angles in a bit... can it be fixed without going back to square 1?

[rrick33]

I would go back to "square one" fundamentally, where your stroke is concerned. This is the foundation of your entire game. Iron out the issues within your stroke and then rebuild your game around the new consistency in your performance.

After 15 years you probably have considerable knowledge, in many areas, that doesn't need to be relearned but you may find that as you rebuild you game around a pure stroke, your perspectives around previously acquired knowledge may change as you gain a greater level of competency.

Many people learn by observation and don't adopt the fundamentals until late in the evolution of their game. By then they have picked up bad habbits that are more easily ignored than corrected.

You have likely programmed false perceptions into your game based on the results of an impure stroke delivery.

Everything is connected....if your stroke is out of wack, then your whole game will be out of wack as well.

 

[8onthebreak]

Line up like your about to break...don't compensate any, just get into position, and close your eyes...one at a time...see which eye is lined up on the cue ball straight...my guess is that it won't be your dominant eye. I think your dealing potentially with aiming issue, not body / stance issue.

Another way to know, is to break...looking ru only left eye, see how u do...then the right only...if your stroke curves both times, it isn't an eye issue

 

[CreeDo]

Some more good advice coming in, I've been starting out with a heavy focus on
making sure my head and eyes are in the right position, Geno's phone lesson helped a lot with that.

I also try to find where my stick naturally points when at rest and then angle my body to match
but it still feels a little weird. I have to turn my head more than I'm used.

Some ideas I like and don't like..

Looser grip: I think it's pretty loose already but I'll try just two fingers.
Maybe my hand clenches and steering the stick at the end of the stroke.

naji: you're probably the first person I ever heard of to suggest a very tight rigid grip.
I guess I could give it a try. You think the loose grip allows the cue to wobble and turn?

mikjary: interesting, I never paid any attention to my shoulder, but I'll start.

victorl: I like the short backswing, it's my style also. Short bridge, and a sort of 'cinch stroke'
when I have a tough shot and position is almost automatic. But my issue is still there
when I have to use force.

Bambu: I got the third eye for my gf once a long time ago, it seemed like an awesome training aid.
It could be I see center ball wrong. I don't think I spin the ball accidentally, I just swing my stick
in sort of an angle relative to my body. Or it moves in a sort of curve instead of a straight line.
Maybe I don't see center ball correctly, and I steer my stick to compensate?

going back to square one: I'll do it if that's what it takes, but not looking forward to it.
Definitely my knowledge seems to outstrip my ability to actually make a ball.

 

[sfleinen]

CreeDo:

How far are you from New Milford, CT (e.g. Fast Eddies http://fasteddies.co/ )? Would welcome the opportunity to meet, if you want to learn how to straighten out that banana stroke. I'll show you snooker fundamentals that will put that stroke on horizon-straight traintracks.

Send me a PM if interested,
-Sean

 

[naji]

Some more good advice coming in, I've been starting out with a heavy focus on
making sure my head and eyes are in the right position, Geno's phone lesson helped a lot with that.

I also try to find where my stick naturally points when at rest and then angle my body to match
but it still feels a little weird. I have to turn my head more than I'm used.

Some ideas I like and don't like..

Looser grip: I think it's pretty loose already but I'll try just two fingers.
Maybe my hand clenches and steering the stick at the end of the stroke.

naji: you're probably the first person I ever heard of to suggest a very tight rigid grip.
I guess I could give it a try. You think the loose grip allows the cue to wobble and turn?

mikjary: interesting, I never paid any attention to my shoulder, but I'll start.

victorl: I like the short backswing, it's my style also. Short bridge, and a sort of 'cinch stroke'
when I have a tough shot and position is almost automatic. But my issue is still there
when I have to use force.

Bambu: I got the third eye for my gf once a long time ago, it seemed like an awesome training aid.
It could be I see center ball wrong. I don't think I spin the ball accidentally, I just swing my stick
in sort of an angle relative to my body. Or it moves in a sort of curve instead of a straight line.
Maybe I don't see center ball correctly, and I steer my stick to compensate?

going back to square one: I'll do it if that's what it takes, but not looking forward to it.
Definitely my knowledge seems to outstrip my ability to actually make a ball.

with loose wrist you will let cue weight do the job, but what happens say on a fast shot, if your bridge is short (or you pull shorter than natural) you will not be able to deliver smooth stroke using cue weight only, you will have to over power it with muscles of which you will have to grip it then and will skew the stroke and miss those long shots, when you tighten your grip it is all muscle but straight hand movement. I am not saying tight is always the way, pro players tend to have long shaft all the time with loose grip so they always vary the speed of the arm so they do not introduce muscle power and only cue weight mainly to control CB speed very accurately; that is why some pros are picky about cue weight some 18 oz, some 19.5 oz ..etc, long shaft also help reduce/eliminate squirt. For shots that you do not have enough shaft you have to grip hard.

 

[Bambu]

Bambu: I got the third eye for my gf once a long time ago, it seemed like an awesome training aid.
It could be I see center ball wrong. I don't think I spin the ball accidentally, I just swing my stick
in sort of an angle relative to my body. Or it moves in a sort of curve instead of a straight line.
Maybe I don't see center ball correctly, and I steer my stick to compensate?


Its tough to say without seeing you shoot, Creedo. You may only need a slight hand or body adjustment. The eye should correct any or all of those problems, even if you aren't exactly sure what it is. Because it forces you to stay on center, you cant steer. All you can do is follow through, and sometimes an exaggerated follow through can help. The eye allows you to only hit the ball straight(on a perpendicular angle to the vertical axis). If your cue is angled in any way, the eye will show you which direction.

 

[DogLoop]

Some more good advice coming in, I've been starting out with a heavy focus on
making sure my head and eyes are in the right position, Geno's phone lesson helped a lot with that.

I also try to find where my stick naturally points when at rest and then angle my body to match
but it still feels a little weird. I have to turn my head more than I'm used.

Some ideas I like and don't like..

Looser grip: I think it's pretty loose already but I'll try just two fingers.
Maybe my hand clenches and steering the stick at the end of the stroke.

naji: you're probably the first person I ever heard of to suggest a very tight rigid grip.
I guess I could give it a try. You think the loose grip allows the cue to wobble and turn?

mikjary: interesting, I never paid any attention to my shoulder, but I'll start.

victorl: I like the short backswing, it's my style also. Short bridge, and a sort of 'cinch stroke'
when I have a tough shot and position is almost automatic. But my issue is still there
when I have to use force.

Bambu: I got the third eye for my gf once a long time ago, it seemed like an awesome training aid.
It could be I see center ball wrong. I don't think I spin the ball accidentally, I just swing my stick
in sort of an angle relative to my body. Or it moves in a sort of curve instead of a straight line.
Maybe I don't see center ball correctly, and I steer my stick to compensate?

going back to square one: I'll do it if that's what it takes, but not looking forward to it.
Definitely my knowledge seems to outstrip my ability to actually make a ball.

Everyone is a little different when it comes to stance, dominant eye, grip and swing mechanics, so I'll give a suggestion that may help you to find where the culprit lies:

Set up a "perfect" shot; both ideal for your comfort at the table and one that require s the shot be struck without flaw in order to pocket the OB (think a combination shot into half a pocket or something like that).
Line up the shot with your cue and trust your eyes, now lay the cue flat on the table in line with this "perfect" shot.
Step away from the shot such that you can "see the whole picture" and approach the shot like a plane landing on the runway as though you'd step right into the grip and pull the trigger.
When you grab the cue and swing as though you'd shoot the shot, there's a strong chance that whatever hitch causes your stroke to fail as a piston will "pull" at you to "fix" back towards the "hitch" habit.

Be mindful of what part of your body wants to "adjust" as this very likely represents either the culprit or the "balancing act" of the hitch culprit.

You may not have to do a compete "square one", but this will require at least some unlearning and relearning.

Best of luck. :thumbup:

 

[mantis99]

Could be a tighter grip that turns slightly on the forward movement.

randyg

This is the problem I often have. My cue swerves a little from too tight of a grip when I start the forward motion of the cue. Sometimes it even goes up my arm causing me to pull my elbow into my body, causing an exaggerated swerve on hard strokes. I have found it very difficult to correct.

 

[Scott Lee]

TheMadScientist...Lots of players, including many pros, do not shoot with the cue lined up under their dominant eye. What's important is to line the cue up under where you perceive a straight line. That may, or may not be under your dominant eye. Earl Strickland does not shoot with the cue under his dominant eye (just one of many available examples). He's one of the best players ever!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

What, do you teach people to not shoot under their dominant eye or something? Watch Manny Chau. Same problem. His shaft starts under his chin and ends up under his eye. Very difficult to get great doing that.

I did say most, not all.

 

[Maniac]

Even when I'm try to swing perfectly straight, with minimal arm movement,
I think my stick hooks inward so that it's crossing my body a little.

I get away with it, between having a short bridge and easy pockets... but still.
It's real obvious on my break, where I aim to cut the 1 ball with a half ball hit,
and finish by hitting it square in the face.

If I actually have a banana stroke after playing for over 15 years,
can I straighten it or should I just accept it and work with it?
I've reached maybe a B level with it but I suspect I may not
go much further if I don't fix it.

But how? It feels uncomfortable and unnatural to try to tuck in my elbow more,
or stand more sideways relative to the shot. Do I just fight that weird
feeling and keep at it?

Wow....this post sounds like I could have written it myself.....verbatim.

CreeDo, since my stroke suffers from the exact same malady as yours, I can only tell you what has helped straighten mine out somewhat (not great, but better than it was). What I noticed and what I try to do now on most shots is bend slightly more at the knees AND waist, getting my upper body/head down a bit closer to the cue. This causes my grip-hand elbow to protrude higher away from my body and seems to aid with the making the pendulum motion a bit easier. Play around with it. It's not much of an adjustment and certainly worth a few minutes of your time. Like I said, it didn't cure all my ills, but it did take some of the arc out of my stroke.

I hope this (or someone else's suggestion) helps you!

Maniac

 

[naji]

Even when I'm try to swing perfectly straight, with minimal arm movement,
I think my stick hooks inward so that it's crossing my body a little.

I get away with it, between having a short bridge and easy pockets... but still.
It's real obvious on my break, where I aim to cut the 1 ball with a half ball hit,
and finish by hitting it square in the face.

If I actually have a banana stroke after playing for over 15 years,
can I straighten it or should I just accept it and work with it?
I've reached maybe a B level with it but I suspect I may not
go much further if I don't fix it.

But how? It feels uncomfortable and unnatural to try to tuck in my elbow more,
or stand more sideways relative to the shot. Do I just fight that weird
feeling and keep at it?

If you can bend all the way, use snooker style, let your cue rub against your center of chin on backward swing and guided by your chest from the butt area, must pull very slow to feel cue on your chin, then follow through, follow through guarantees that shaft will go toward the final focus point. Snooker cues have the butt end chamffred at end of butt i guess so it avoids the tucking of cue who knows..