This Aiming System Crap is Killing Me

[crawfish]

Sean, there is a major difference in stating you are tired of hearing about aiming systems and questioning whether they are even valid.

Crawfish did both.

Had he done the former, without the latter then it's likely that they thread would not have filled up with opinions and "proof" on both sides.

This is AZ though - anyone who starts such a thread HAS to know how it will end up. Look at my thread where I clearly BEGGED people in the first to allow CTE to be discussed without any flaming. Not a chance.

Can't stay away, huh? Did you miss me in a manly sort of way? Don't tell anybody, but I kind of missed you, John.

Let me recap.

I don't like to constantly see or hear about a new system. These "habits" have been around for years. Now, we're calling them systems.

Not all are for everybody. You can take a piece of one and a little of another and make what works for you.

Oh, dear Jesus Christ, I'm tired of telling this. I have so many pm's and positive reps for saying what I said it's amazing. Anyway, I'm glad we could all stay civil and have a little conflict. (With the exception of me being called a little smartass, which I had to retort).

I love you guys.

 

[JB Cases]

Can't stay away, huh? Did you miss me in a manly sort of way? Don't tell anybody, but I kind of missed you, John.

Let me recap.

I don't like to constantly see or hear about a new system. These "habits" have been around for years. Now, we're calling them systems.

Not all are for everybody. You can take a piece of one and a little of another and make what works for you.

Oh, dear Jesus Christ, I'm tired of telling this. I have so many pm's and positive reps for saying what I said it's amazing. Anyway, I'm glad we could all stay civil and have a little conflict. (With the exception of me being called a little smartass, which I had to retort).

I love you guys.

Can't stay away? I never said I was going away. I am just discussing the things in the thread which come up and which I feel deserve a response.

I am tired of all the aiming threads too. So if I make a NEW thread stating this and then list five positive things about aiming systems what do you think will happen?

I am glad you got your validation. Still you are foolish if you think you can make a thread knocking something and not have that something discussed.

 

[crawfish]

Can't stay away? I never said I was going away. I am just discussing the things in the thread which come up and which I feel deserve a response.

I am tired of all the aiming threads too. So if I make a NEW thread stating this and then list five positive things about aiming systems what do you think will happen?

I am glad you got your validation. Still you are foolish if you think you can make a thread knocking something and not have that something discussed.

Oh, I knew it would happen. For what it's worth, I won't knock what you're doing, if it works... good for you and all that it works for. I just get tired of all of the geometry and diagrams that I feel are only great if you have perfect mechanics and in a vacuum. See my point? Anyway, flail away!

 

[JB Cases]

Oh, I knew it would happen. For what it's worth, I won't knock what you're doing, if it works... good for you and all that it works for. I just get tired of all of the geometry and diagrams that I feel are only great if you have perfect mechanics and in a vacuum. See my point? Anyway, flail away!

I totally understand your point here. But honestly, that is a big part of having a discussion board. This is the place for all of us who want to discuss these things to do so. I skip dozens of threads every day because they don't interest me or I am tired of reading on the same subject.

My point is that if the systems and diagrams help someone to understand something then they can take it to the table and work out the physical limitations.

Which scenario would be better in your opinion?

1. On AZ pool theory is never discussed - players are on their own to work it out when it comes to their game.

2. On AZ pool theory is discussed and what works for one player can be presented to the community for others to try and see if it helps them too.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I totally understand your point here. But honestly, that is a big part of having a discussion board. This is the place for all of us who want to discuss these things to do so. I skip dozens of threads every day because they don't interest me or I am tired of reading on the same subject.

My point is that if the systems and diagrams help someone to understand something then they can take it to the table and work out the physical limitations.

Which scenario would be better in your opinion?

1. On AZ pool theory is never discussed - players are on their own to work it out when it comes to their game.

2. On AZ pool theory is discussed and what works for one player can be presented to the community for others to try and see if it helps them too.

I will vote for #2.

 

[jrt30004]

I totally understand your point here. But honestly, that is a big part of having a discussion board. This is the place for all of us who want to discuss these things to do so. I skip dozens of threads every day because they don't interest me or I am tired of reading on the same subject.

My point is that if the systems and diagrams help someone to understand something then they can take it to the table and work out the physical limitations.

Which scenario would be better in your opinion?

1. On AZ pool theory is never discussed - players are on their own to work it out when it comes to their game.

2. On AZ pool theory is discussed and what works for one player can be presented to the community for others to try and see if it helps them too.

can we have an option 3?
3. on AZ you stop trying to defend cte to those of us who fall into three categories a) don't beleive it is real, b) don't think it's good or useful, and c) don't care and think all this crying about it once again makes you look like 12 year old with a skinned knee.

seiously, how many fights can you start here. i saw on another thread you're offering to play people for money via video feed? you wouldn't play the guy who showed up in person because you said he was an a**hole. in all whole hearted sincerity i don't give a rat's ass about cte but now i feel i must. and i feel i must oppose it simply because you have made it such an annoyance. so i firmly throw my hat in the ring with no formal knowlege of what the hell cte is and say, it's crap. you're lying about it, it's stupid, and it doesn't work. and i won't play you via video feed but if you're ever here in GA. i'll gladly take the 7 out playing 9 ball or the 6 out playing 10 ball for a $100 a set. and we can play two or three. you should easliy be able to give up that weight since you have cte on your side and i am an APA banger.

p.s. i enjoy all the info AZ has to offer i don't enjoy the useless bantering back and forth about an aiming system where half the posts include the phrases:
1. the way i understand it
2. i know how but i can't explain
3. watch this video where i hit balls (but don't actually tell you anything)
4. i heard from a guy who said
5. this is what someone told me and then i tried this
and many many more gems of wisdom i have gotten from from these threads. unless you can actually say, (insert teacher's name) taught me this. and this does this because of this and this is the result, and these physics are involved. if you can't explain things definatively and in decent fashion your posts are useless. and that's what 90% of the cte threads have been.

 

[cookie man]

can we have an option 3?
3. on AZ you stop trying to defend cte to those of us who fall into three categories a) don't beleive it is real, b) don't think it's good or useful, and c) don't care and think all this crying about it once again makes you look like 12 year old with a skinned knee.

Don't believe, don't think, don't care. Kinda sums it all up.

 

[8pack]

I have to support crawfish on this one. This was his thread, to express his views on his frustrations at seeing the never-ending fishing-line-tangles of aiming system thread that keep washing ashore on the Main forum. Then, we have those coming into the thread with, "but you should watch this video, and watch that video, and this other video... to convince you that aiming system threads are GOOD!" when that was precisely and specifically NOT what the OP wanted to see. Roughly analogous to:


I agree with crawfish post there is alot about aiming going on in the forum
and it does get old.
But to make a statement,THERE IS NO SHORTCUT.
There are things that will help players out and with practice people can
learn to pocket balls easier .Will they make you a champion probably not.
But they might make the game more enjoyable.
I did 2 systems in the video's ,one was the pivot system and the other was the fractional system neither one are gimmicks they are very real system,s and they do work.
I dont use them for ever shot but i do use them.I actually use the contact point and the tip and side of tip for most of my aiming.
The truth is there are shortcuts to the game and they do require practice.

 

[duckie]

The crap is not the systems but the people who keep implying that one system is better than the other without any real proof of such.

I love the "there are shortcut but those take practice" lines. If pratice is required, then there are no shortcuts. Practice, practice, practice.

I also love the "take two players, teach one system to one and another system to the other" lines. As if, two people are exactly the same in all aspect needed to play pool. It's BS statements like this, those that can not be proved or backed upped, thats crap.

After time, if one is truely a player of the game, you will realize it takes a little bit of something from every type of system to be really good. Learn to take that little bit of something and incorporate it into your habits.

 

[Neil]

..........

 

[JB Cases]

The crap is not the systems but the people who keep implying that one system is better than the other without any real proof of such.

I love the "there are shortcut but those take practice" lines. If pratice is required, then there are no shortcuts. Practice, practice, practice.

Do you honestly believe that?

Ok. Since I love to post these BET IT type challenges then here is one for you.

You and I both get a C-player.

You tell your guy to practice banking for one hour and I will use my hour to teach my guy a banking system.

After that hour we will set up twenty bank shots and if your guy makes more of them then you win the bet. I bet that my guy will make more banks than your guy will. Furthermore after that hour if we tell them to go and practice for 24 hours and then do it again my guy will demolish your guy, it won't even be close.

The reason? My guy will have learned a shortcut that allows him to get in the right position to make just about any bank shot. So with some practice he can develop and tune his delivery since he is not guessing where to stand. Your guy will still be guessing on most of his bank shots and therefore will require a lot more time to refine where he needs to stand for every DIFFERENT shot he takes - once he finds that place then he will have to practice it even more to burn it into his memory. Then once burned in hopefully he won't be faced with one that isn't in his memory and have to improvise (guess).

I use the banking systems because they are 100% geometrically correct.

As for CTE I personally feel that it's BETTER than GhostBall also because it gives me personally a solid framework to use when I approach the shot and I can treat all shots as practically the same. For me personally it works like this and therefore I make more shots and make "tougher" shots more often.

And yes I have to practice using CTE because I want it to become a fluid part of my game rather than a mechanical one. It is my opinion that CTE gives me a shortcut to better shot making.

As for shortcuts in general - if Buddy Hall comes up to you and gives you something that it took him years to develop, something that you might never develop on your own, then you have just received a shortcut. Is it enough that Buddy gave it to you to make you a better player? In a small sense yes, the very fact that you now know what Buddy knows makes you better BUT that doesn't mean you can DO what Buddy does with it. THAT is where practice comes in.

Rafael Martinez, Danny Medina, and Jose Parica each taught me something about playing pool that is NOT found in any book or DVD that I have ever consumed. They each taught it to me from a professional, this-is-what-I-do, perspective. I even complained to Jose that I can see him doing what he was showing me but I couldn't hit the ball that way. He just laughed at me and said when I play enough I develop the touch.

And that is everything right there. IF you play enough then you will develop "the touch" but it has to coupled with knowing what to do otherwise your touch will be handicapped by a lack of knowledge.

You can run a million miles in the wrong direction and eventually you might get where you are going. Or someone can give you directions and that puts you on the right path and the way is much shorter and more fruitful.

 

[JB Cases]

can we have an option 3?
3. on AZ you stop trying to defend cte to those of us who fall into three categories a) don't beleive it is real, b) don't think it's good or useful, and c) don't care and think all this crying about it once again makes you look like 12 year old with a skinned knee.

seiously, how many fights can you start here. i saw on another thread you're offering to play people for money via video feed? you wouldn't play the guy who showed up in person because you said he was an a**hole. in all whole hearted sincerity i don't give a rat's ass about cte but now i feel i must. and i feel i must oppose it simply because you have made it such an annoyance. so i firmly throw my hat in the ring with no formal knowlege of what the hell cte is and say, it's crap. you're lying about it, it's stupid, and it doesn't work. and i won't play you via video feed but if you're ever here in GA. i'll gladly take the 7 out playing 9 ball or the 6 out playing 10 ball for a $100 a set. and we can play two or three. you should easliy be able to give up that weight since you have cte on your side and i am an APA banger.

p.s. i enjoy all the info AZ has to offer i don't enjoy the useless bantering back and forth about an aiming system where half the posts include the phrases:
1. the way i understand it
2. i know how but i can't explain
3. watch this video where i hit balls (but don't actually tell you anything)
4. i heard from a guy who said
5. this is what someone told me and then i tried this
and many many more gems of wisdom i have gotten from from these threads. unless you can actually say, (insert teacher's name) taught me this. and this does this because of this and this is the result, and these physics are involved. if you can't explain things definatively and in decent fashion your posts are useless. and that's what 90% of the cte threads have been.

How about option 4 where you just change the channel if you don't want to read something?

I am not starting any fights. I am providing the counterpoint when I have a counterpoint. Sorry that it bothers you.

As for my reasons to play or not play Eric Hu I stated them CLEARLY in advance on this board and did exactly what I said I would. Had Erc posted the money in advance then we would have played or I would have forfeited the money - simple as that. (it's funny how selectively some people like to use a situation).

For the Fargo thread I was LIGHTENING the mood and trying to inject some fun into it while coming up with an idea where those of us who are always saying "take it to the table" can have a way to do so. You and me can play some that way too

If you want to stalk me and oppose me "just because" then be my guest. I can't prevent you from wasting your time that you could be spending on threads that interest you. I mean if I weren't interested in CTE as you claim not to be then I wouldn't be reading them.

 

[5ballcharlie]

I am not one for gimmick aiming systems either. I believe if you have a system that you use and practice that system it will help your game. I myself use joe tuckers aiming system. In reality it just helps me clarify the contact points. I dont line up every single shot with it because I know what a 4 to 4 is supposed to feel like. Although, when the pressure is on its useful to have it in my back pocket because pressure clouds judgment. Did I pocket balls better before I used Tuckers contact point system the answer is absolutely NO. Did I practice my ass off for years with the system? You can bet your ass I did!

 

[JB Cases]

I am not one for gimmick aiming systems either. I believe if you have a system that you use and practice that system it will help your game. I myself use joe tuckers aiming system. In reality it just helps me clarify the contact points. I dont line up every single shot with it because I know what a 4 to 4 is supposed to feel like. Although, when the pressure is on its useful to have it in my back pocket because pressure clouds judgment. Did I pocket balls better before I used Tuckers contact point system the answer is absolutely NO. Did I practice my ass off for years with the system? You can bet your ass I did!

What is a gimmick aiming system?

 

[manwon]

I think some needs to take a laxative because being anal retentive can become a way of life!!!!


Oh and by the way when whoever, decides to use those laxatives does, you will need to move your computer station into the bathroom if you don't have wireless because with so much shit being injected in this thread it could take awhile.



JIMO

 

[crawfish]

Do you honestly believe that?

Ok. Since I love to post these BET IT type challenges then here is one for you.

You and I both get a C-player.

You tell your guy to practice banking for one hour and I will use my hour to teach my guy a banking system.

After that hour we will set up twenty bank shots and if your guy makes more of them then you win the bet. I bet that my guy will make more banks than your guy will. Furthermore after that hour if we tell them to go and practice for 24 hours and then do it again my guy will demolish your guy, it won't even be close.

The reason? My guy will have learned a shortcut that allows him to get in the right position to make just about any bank shot. So with some practice he can develop and tune his delivery since he is not guessing where to stand. Your guy will still be guessing on most of his bank shots and therefore will require a lot more time to refine where he needs to stand for every DIFFERENT shot he takes - once he finds that place then he will have to practice it even more to burn it into his memory. Then once burned in hopefully he won't be faced with one that isn't in his memory and have to improvise (guess).

I use the banking systems because they are 100% geometrically correct.

As for CTE I personally feel that it's BETTER than GhostBall also because it gives me personally a solid framework to use when I approach the shot and I can treat all shots as practically the same. For me personally it works like this and therefore I make more shots and make "tougher" shots more often.

And yes I have to practice using CTE because I want it to become a fluid part of my game rather than a mechanical one. It is my opinion that CTE gives me a shortcut to better shot making.

As for shortcuts in general - if Buddy Hall comes up to you and gives you something that it took him years to develop, something that you might never develop on your own, then you have just received a shortcut. Is it enough that Buddy gave it to you to make you a better player? In a small sense yes, the very fact that you now know what Buddy knows makes you better BUT that doesn't mean you can DO what Buddy does with it. THAT is where practice comes in.

Rafael Martinez, Danny Medina, and Jose Parica each taught me something about playing pool that is NOT found in any book or DVD that I have ever consumed. They each taught it to me from a professional, this-is-what-I-do, perspective. I even complained to Jose that I can see him doing what he was showing me but I couldn't hit the ball that way. He just laughed at me and said when I play enough I develop the touch.

And that is everything right there. IF you play enough then you will develop "the touch" but it has to coupled with knowing what to do otherwise your touch will be handicapped by a lack of knowledge.

You can run a million miles in the wrong direction and eventually you might get where you are going. Or someone can give you directions and that puts you on the right path and the way is much shorter and more fruitful.

Buddy is in a wheelchair and probably wouldn't appreciate this.

 

[crawfish]

I have to support crawfish on this one. This was his thread, to express his views on his frustrations at seeing the never-ending fishing-line-tangles of aiming system thread that keep washing ashore on the Main forum. Then, we have those coming into the thread with, "but you should watch this video, and watch that video, and this other video... to convince you that aiming system threads are GOOD!" when that was precisely and specifically NOT what the OP wanted to see. Roughly analogous to:


I agree with crawfish post there is alot about aiming going on in the forum
and it does get old.
But to make a statement,THERE IS NO SHORTCUT.
There are things that will help players out and with practice people can
learn to pocket balls easier .Will they make you a champion probably not.
But they might make the game more enjoyable.
I did 2 systems in the video's ,one was the pivot system and the other was the fractional system neither one are gimmicks they are very real system,s and they do work.
I dont use them for ever shot but i do use them.I actually use the contact point and the tip and side of tip for most of my aiming.
The truth is there are shortcuts to the game and they do require practice.

I thought we might become friends. It starts here.

 

[crawfish]

The crap is not the systems but the people who keep implying that one system is better than the other without any real proof of such.

I love the "there are shortcut but those take practice" lines. If pratice is required, then there are no shortcuts. Practice, practice, practice.

I also love the "take two players, teach one system to one and another system to the other" lines. As if, two people are exactly the same in all aspect needed to play pool. It's BS statements like this, those that can not be proved or backed upped, thats crap.

After time, if one is truely a player of the game, you will realize it takes a little bit of something from every type of system to be really good. Learn to take that little bit of something and incorporate it into your habits.

Wow, I'm not so stupid after all. Someone gets it.

 

[crawfish]

By the way guys, let's just see how much more shit I can stir up. How about............


If you don't aim and play a system like _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, then you'll never be as good as him. If you choose to play like Buddy Hall (a good friend just spoke to Buddy, and he's in a chair now.) if you master his system, you'll break all of his records and play just like him.

Please retort.

 

[JB Cases]

Buddy is in a wheelchair and probably wouldn't appreciate this.

Wouldn't appreciate what? Me using him as an example of a great player who spent years developing his way of playing who MIGHT have a tip or two that shaves years off the learning curves of people he might decide to share with?

I am not sure what guilt trip you are trying to lay down here.