This guy supports the idea that all aiming systems are bogus. They only help to get you close.

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Lol.... He makes some good points, but then suggests using "quadrants" and ghostball to learn cut shots, then says these methods are not aiming systems. But they really are.

An aiming system is simply a method or process that helps players learn to pocket balls. Some systems are better than others, depending on the player.

The quadrant and ghostball methods are part of the good ol' system called trial and error, where a player practices enough shots to eventually start making more shots than they're missing. And then repeating the successful shots enough ends up securing them to memory. From then on it's all about HAMB.

A player can actually bypass a lot of those misses by using a system that doesn't involve trial and error or guesswork or countless hours of practice with quadrants or ghostballs.

I would much rather start a player off with a known aim line for each shot, rather than have them rely on estimating or guessing where to aim until enough experience is gathered before they're able to just recognize where to aim. I'd call that a shortcut to getting to that point where HAMB comes into play.

Anyway, this guy is right about one thing: Aiming is easy. But it's only easy if you know where to aim, and that's where a good system can help. By eliminating or reducing a lot of the trial and error and guesswork, a player can immediately start repeating successful shots without wasting a lot of time on missed shots first. After all, we develop good aiming skills by repeating successful shots. In the end, it's all HAMB, but it doesn't have to be a million balls, especially if you can bypass a lot of those misses in the beginning.
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aiming system should identify the shot. Contact geometry identifies all the components quite clearly - it is afterall, stupid geometry. Any carpenter will tell you how measuring works. The onus is on the shooter to train past DOG. The further you can leave that behind, the better.

The vlogger states up front that the title is just clickbait and goes on to present a more rounded view. Lot of the bias presented is in no uncertain terms, clearly wrong ish...
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Speed, spin, thickness of cloth, wet or dry are factors that can’t be ignored. Physics is at least as big a factor as geometry.
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wouldn’t argue with that. Aiming systems do work if your stroke is perfect it’s going to give you the spot. It certainly can’t make up for the spin your applying or even the humidity in the air. No different then a system to bank. Feel has to be a part of it.
 

LWW

"We are the dead." -Winston Smith-
Silver Member
Aiming systems will only get you close if your stroke is flawed.

Only with a perfect stroke can you always make the shot,

None of us have a perfect stroke.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aiming systems will only get you close if your stroke is flawed.

Only with a perfect stroke can you always make the shot,

None of us have a perfect stroke.
The stick itself is plenty close enough for pool. The idea is to get the stick moving and then stay out the way.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Aiming systems will only get you close if your stroke is flawed.

Only with a perfect stroke can you always make the shot,

None of us have a perfect stroke.

If "perfect" means consistent, then yes a perfect stroke is a must. But a perfect stroke is no guarantee that you will always make the shot.

Your perfect stroke could be working with a slightly thinner or thicker aim line than needed for any particular shot. I mean, you could either estimate the aim incorrectly or not compensate enough for speed or spin, and then miss the shot, regardless of stroke consistency or perfection.
 

LWW

"We are the dead." -Winston Smith-
Silver Member
If "perfect" means consistent, then yes a perfect stroke is a must. But a perfect stroke is no guarantee that you will always make the shot.

Your perfect stroke could be working with a slightly thinner or thicker aim line than needed for any particular shot. I mean, you could either estimate the aim incorrectly or not compensate enough for speed or spin, and then miss the shot, regardless of stroke consistency or perfection.
Human eyesight is imperfect, everyone’s stroke is imperfect no matter how consistent … this is why shots are missed and this thread is devolving into how finely a hair can be split.
 

gypsy_soul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So this guy is a 658 fargo. Is that a shortstop?
Fargo doesn’t measure the pressure factor/ how he handles pressure! I’ve played many 650-690 Fargo rated players then bet 1000$ - 3000$ per game ( on their own cash ) one pocket and Bamm 💥 they can’t make a ball all the sudden. Thinking they were stealing cuz in a 587 fargo !!!!!! Lol
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fargo doesn’t measure the pressure factor/ how he handles pressure! I’ve played many 650-690 Fargo rated players then bet 1000$ - 3000$ per game ( on their own cash ) one pocket and Bamm 💥 they can’t make a ball all the sudden. Thinking they were stealing cuz in a 587 fargo !!!!!! Lol
Right, but it measures your average speed playing 8-ball or rotation. Are you saying a 500 fargo CAN be a shortstop level player, but a 700 might not be? All based on how they handle pressure?
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
A player can actually bypass a lot of those misses by using a system that doesn't involve trial and error or guesswork or countless hours of practice with quadrants or ghostballs.
...or get hung up floundering with the application of a system that's either too complicated or built off of the wings of chickens.

I'd argue the vast majority of system players have jumped the gun on adopting a system when they should have building their fundamentals.
 

gypsy_soul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Right, but it measures your average speed playing 8-ball or rotation. Are you saying a 500 fargo CAN be a shortstop level player, but a 700 might not be? All based on how they handle pressure?
587 Fargo against a 700 Fargo , playing One pocket for 2000$ per game is what I did …. I picked the 700 Fargo player and won . I’m saying pressure is a huge factor!!! So does the game of One Pocket lol 😂
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Human eyesight is imperfect, everyone’s stroke is imperfect no matter how consistent … this is why shots are missed and this thread is devolving into how finely a hair can be split.

The stroke is muscle memory, and it can be very consistent at delivering the cue perfectly.

When an experienced player misses a shot due to stroke error, it's typically the result of trying too hard to consciously control the stroke instead of simply allowing it to work naturally, subconsciously.

But shots can also be missed with a perfectly executed stroke. It's subject to happen anytime there's doubt in the exact aim or alignment for the shot. Most players have a certain type of shot or shots that they just don't see well, as far as knowing exactly where/how to aim. Their stroke isn't the reason for missing these shots... it's how they're aiming the shots.

For newby/inexperienced players, missed shots are a combination of inconsistent stroke delivery and inconsistent aiming skills. Once the stroke becomes consistent enough to pocket long straight in shots with consistency, missing cut shots is likely due to poor aiming skills, like not knowing exactly where to send the cb or not compensating correctly for applied spin.

When the greatest players in the world, with their fine-tuned, machine-like strokes, happen to miss a shot, I don't believe it's always due to stroke errors. Sometimes, like everyone else, they simply don't aim perfectly for every shot, either overcompensating or not compensating enough for speed or spin.
 
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