THIS is what is wrong with pool these days!

From one player to another, it's nice that you are " concerned " enough about the subject to give it some thought and post your opinions, and you certainly aren't alone. Likewise you certainly aren't the first to make suggestions and you won't be the last.

That said, there are a few things I think you ( and the other concerned citizens) should be aware of...

There is public pool and private pool.
Public pool happens at bars and halls, and in the professional realm.
Private pool happens at home and in private clubs.

Private pool, and the games we all play on our own time, is NOT broken. And other than the periodic economic up and down swings, we have no real reason to believe that the average Joe enjoys pool any less than they ever have. The simple fact is, some people like it, and some don't. This is normal, should be expected, and has nothing to do with which game , rules, or equipment is popular yesterday or today.

Public pool, excluding professional pool, is all about the economy and opportunities taken. In other words, give people a place to play that is affordable and decent, and they will. The private players will take their enjoyment of the game with them wherever they go if given the opportunity. Unfortunately the economy will make or break where and how many opportunities exist in the public to play. Public pool is not broken, it's simply subject to many ( naturally occurring) variables.

Then you have " pro " pool.
Which is definitely broken. And the reasons behind this are neither small nor few in number. In fact I could easily write a 100 pages on the subject and barely scratch the surface. Fortunately for you I will not address this here, today.

The point of my boorish rant is simply to delineate the dichotomy of this industry. Some pool is perfectly fine. Some is not. And there are distinct differences between the two.

You make some good points. I wasn't thinking of pool with those distinctions and it's a valid way to consider it from an industry perspective.

I have only recently run across some players who will play at their homes or at the local Elks lodge who won't even consider playing in the local pool leagues or tournaments. Some of them are surprisingly good players.

Do you think an increase in private pool might help create more of an audience for professional pool?
 
You've only been playing for a year -- so this all makes perfect sense.

Once you get bit with the pool bug one of the things that happens is you lose a bit of touch with reality and you can't understand why some people just don't like the game like you do. It's weird really.

I remember when I really got going I would practically beg my friends to play some. We would drive off to some far away pool room and they would play for a bit and then get bored to tears. After a while, we would be hanging out looking for something to do and the first thing they would say is "WE AREN'T GOING TO PLAY POOL!"

Regular people just don't understand us.
 
You've only been playing for a year -- so this all makes perfect sense.

Once you get bit with the pool bug one of the things that happens is you lose a bit of touch with reality and you can't understand why some people just don't like the game like you do. It's weird really.

I remember when I really got going I would practically beg my friends to play some. We would drive off to some far away pool room and they would play for a bit and then get bored to tears. After a while, we would be hanging out looking for something to do and the first thing they would say is "WE AREN'T GOING TO PLAY POOL!"

Regular people just don't understand us.

Yeah, I can see how that might happen. I posted something on Facebook right after registering for the USBTC and had a few of my non-pool friends send me messages offline asking why on earth I would sign up for a tournament I stood no chance of winning. The ironic part of that is that some of them regularly run marathons and have absolutely no chance of winning those either.

I agree that some will never get it but on my downward spiral into poolhall junkie I am going to try to drag a few with me.
 
You make some good points. I wasn't thinking of pool with those distinctions and it's a valid way to consider it from an industry perspective.

I have only recently run across some players who will play at their homes or at the local Elks lodge who won't even consider playing in the local pool leagues or tournaments. Some of them are surprisingly good players.

Do you think an increase in private pool might help create more of an audience for professional pool?

Not really. Its the other way around.
 
Yes it is...

Not really. Its the other way around.

A few months ago a guy came up to me at a local place I was practicing and said hey dont I know you...most people around here have seen me there at some point and we struck up a conversation around pool. The guy was playing probably 3 leagues in differing league systems. When I asked him if he knew anything of the US Open. It was huh? Whats that? AzBilliards...no never heard of them...simply amazing.
 
A few months ago a guy came up to me at a local place I was practicing and said hey dont I know you...most people around here have seen me there at some point and we struck up a conversation around pool. The guy was playing probably 3 leagues in differing league systems. When I asked him if he knew anything of the US Open. It was huh? Whats that? AzBilliards...no never heard of them...simply amazing.

Was this guy a newbie? Maybe he needs the mentorship we have been talking about. Hope you didn't say or do anything to turn him away from the poolroom. We all had to learn at one time.
 
A few months ago a guy came up to me at a local place I was practicing and said hey dont I know you...most people around here have seen me there at some point and we struck up a conversation around pool. The guy was playing probably 3 leagues in differing league systems. When I asked him if he knew anything of the US Open. It was huh? Whats that? AzBilliards...no never heard of them...simply amazing.

Yeah, someone asked me on Saturday why I was late to the Saturday tournament and when I said I stayed home to watch some of the Turning Stone stream they just looked at me funny. And that was an A player in my area who has played pool for a long time.

Professional pool really isn't a thing for a lot of pool players. As much as I want to try and snag some first-timers I also try to remind my fellow players that tournaments like Derby City are coming up.
 
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Yeah, someone asked me on Saturday why I was late to the Saturday tournament and when I said I stayed home to watch some of the Turning Point stream they just looked at me funny. And that was an A player in my area who has played pool for a long time.

Professional pool really isn't a thing for a lot of pool players. As much as I want to try and snag some first-timers I also try to remind my fellow players that tournaments like Derby City are coming up.

There is a great disconnect between Sport Pool and Pool League pool and I think its a real shame. Most Pool leagues really care less about exposing their players to the pro side of the equation. The want the weekly matches, free table time for their teams to practice and play and this pisses room owners off an for good reason. If all the owners were going to get out of this was the drinks they consume....you would think they would be out there seeking on how to recruit new people into the game for their own sake.
 
I have teenage kids. When their friends are over, NOT ONE is interested in pool even though my 9' gold crown table sits in the middle of the house. It is gotten to the point where I just leave my thousand dollar plus cues out on the table without any fear that they will be touched.
 
So name another sport that has fans actually playing the game. There are lots of sports where fans watch but don't play. There are sports where don't watch but play. There are sports fans watch and play. I would imagine pool is one of the sports played by the most fans. Not anyone's fault whether they like watching a sport or not. Personal preference. It can be pretty hard to find an open pool table at any time of night in a bar. Pool halls not as hard. Why do people think pool is dead. Leave the empty pool hall once in a while. Some people like alcohol while they shoot. Not everyone love 9 footers. Pool is not dead. Pro pool has issues.
 
I have teenage kids. When their friends are over, NOT ONE is interested in pool even though my 9' gold crown table sits in the middle of the house. It is gotten to the point where I just leave my thousand dollar plus cues out on the table without any fear that they will be touched.

Maybe they'll come around. It was the exact opposite for me. After a decades long lay off my son got me back into the game. He played at a watering hole with 7 footers near his work. Got himself a stick. I took him to the poolroom. Now he goes to the poolroom and loves the 9 footers. He likes to go back to bar for their Saturday afternoon tournaments. When he plays there he doesn't have a long shot. I think it will be difficult to ignore a 9 footer in the middle of the house. Maybe they will turn around.
 
So name another sport that has fans actually playing the game. There are lots of sports where fans watch but don't play. There are sports where don't watch but play. There are sports fans watch and play. I would imagine pool is one of the sports played by the most fans. Not anyone's fault whether they like watching a sport or not. Personal preference. It can be pretty hard to find an open pool table at any time of night in a bar. Pool halls not as hard. Why do people think pool is dead. Leave the empty pool hall once in a while. Some people like alcohol while they shoot. Not everyone love 9 footers. Pool is not dead. Pro pool has issues.

You make a good point. Maybe saying pool, in general, is dead is inaccurate. However, it's leaving a lot of money on the table.

I've tried to make the point before but there are other sports that have packaged themselves to reach a wider audience that discovered huge profits as a result. Maybe if there were a lot more new players then at least some percentage of them would start watching or attending pro events.

The example I have used in the past is distance running. I remember the 80's and early 90's when marathons were only run by hard core types and most people never considered it. These days the events are huge, there are training programs targeting destination events, huge expos, it is far more mainstream and the industry is thriving. The hard core runners are mostly annoyed at what some call the "Oprah runners" but even they have to admit that more money in the industry has kept it alive.

Pool has a lot of advantages over other recreational sports in terms of cost, flexibility of environment and accessibility. I just think more people need to give it a try.
 
Yeah when I said mentoring I don't think that is the right word...

So name another sport that has fans actually playing the game. There are lots of sports where fans watch but don't play. There are sports where don't watch but play. There are sports fans watch and play. I would imagine pool is one of the sports played by the most fans. Not anyone's fault whether they like watching a sport or not. Personal preference. It can be pretty hard to find an open pool table at any time of night in a bar. Pool halls not as hard. Why do people think pool is dead. Leave the empty pool hall once in a while. Some people like alcohol while they shoot. Not everyone love 9 footers. Pool is not dead. Pro pool has issues.

Yes if someone is interested in learning the game, those of us with more knowledge should mentor them in how to play, but more what I'm referring to is those of us that have an interest in high level pool should mentor our friends in the sport.

I mean talk about the pros and who has won what. Bring up the drama, hell there's plenty of that.

Talk about it, like you would the Packers or the Chargers...

If they don't know what you're talking about, pull up a youtube video and show them.

That's what I mean by mentoring them. Mentor them about pool the way you would someone who just came over from England watching Cricket about Baseball...

Jaden
 
Pretty much the same answers this topic always gets.

Go forth and make every single person in the world enjoy pool! Yeehaw.
 
My feeling is that many of the people involved with pool have been doing it so long they have forgotten a time when they weren't interested in pool
It's hard when you have to remember back before 8yrs. old lol
......See bottom post.......

Strange. Never heard of guys being put off by a pool table. My parents have one, and it's a big hit at family gatherings among non pool players.
That's for sure! LOTS of non-players in my family love to hit a few a couple times a year.

A little over a year ago I hadn't played at all. Pool is very intimidating if you haven't every played it at all. The break is probably the most intimidating but making a bridge, trying to aim and so on are very foreign. If someone is just a little friendly and patient it can go a long way toward removing some of that intimidation.

I've got my 12 yr. old nephew hooked. He was shy, embarrassed etc., we were playing in public. I kept encouraging him that first year he played at a campground.
Last year we shot for 5 hrs.!! In the beginning, the tips you give that help ANY improvement will go a long way!
His Dad is getting my old table set up in a couple weeks!:thumbup:

Pretty much the same answers this topic always gets.

Let me try an original one for you. haha To the OP. I can't quite remember when "I wasn't interested." Since for me it started at 8 yrs. old with me and my "girlfriend" playing doctor on my Uncle's table!! Been hooked ever since!!!!!!
 
I wrote this post quite a while ago, but after many years involved with pool both as a player and room owner, this is what I take away from the experience. Here's the cut and paste ......

Exposure to sports / games is what makes them popular to a large degree along with the ability to enjoy performing them, even if only at a novice level. Once that happens, sponsors fight to get involved.

Take for example bowling. Exposure to the game is a natural. A guy and girl go on a date and decide to go bowling. Within one or two attempts they are both at least able to knock down pins with a REAL chance to see themselves make a strike.

Since it is relatively easy to knock down pins and perhaps strike, it even draws kids, families, couples. The resulting atmosphere is an open, fun laugh and jump enjoyable experience.

Golf is another, and different example. Golf is an outdoor game where spectators and players can enjoy the outdoor environment without feeling inhibited or closed in.

Even if they don't perform well, wives and girlfriends are with their men enjoying a day outdoors. Further, they actually can get a feel of golf in another family type environment with mini-golf, which provides yet another form of exposure to the game.

All these exposures spark interest.

Baseball, while worlds apart from the previous examples, still attracts huge TV and novice involvement. Its both an outdoor game, a family event, and just about anyone can catch a ball in a glove (which is an addictive feeling) as well as swing a bat. You go to enough ball games, feel the breeze, enjoy the excitement in the atmosphere of the stadium, and anyone can get hooked on the sport.

Now take pool. It comes from a seedy past. It certainly is intimidating to walk into a pool room as well. You don't really have a great deal of "your own space" while playing. When I had my poolroom, it was obvious to see newcomers lost for a place to stand, what to hold, or how to act when it wasn't their turn. Newcomers are intimidated by the complexity of the game.

Newcomers often came in slightly larger groups also. Maybe, double dates trying it out. Perhaps for the extra moral support. They stood between tables holding the shaft of the sick with two hands, balancing on the butt end placed on the floor. When it was their turn, they were so uncomfortable that they were happy to wail at a shot quickly just to get back to trying to find a space to stand where no one would notice how badly they had just embarrassed themselves.

Now, add to that, the fact that playing the game itself,for the most part is very frustrating to a beginner. Nothing at all like the open fun feeling from bowling or even golf.

Did you ever try playing opposite handed? Try it, maybe while playing with your eyes closed, which is about the same as a newbie who has no idea where to hit the OB or CB. It won't be long before you get a feel for how most new to the game get christened. Nothing like bowling where they are knocking down pins right away.

How long would most of us play with a Rubic's Cube before we wanted to throw it through a window? It simply is more frustrating than fun. By its very nature and complexity it destroys it's own chances of motivating folks to continue to play.

Unlike miniature golf, the idea isn't to laugh and giggle amongst yourselves when the ball bounce off the Windmill. Rather, you stand there, uncomfortable, holding the stick, feeling people around you look at you like you don't have a clue what your are doing. Its just not a comfortable thing for most to do.

And these days you add to that, ridiculously loud intimidating garbage music and the atmosphere becomes even less appealing to neophytes. With so many other choices of things to do, its no wonder to me that pool is much less popular than other sports.

The only chance is to create better, friendlier atmospheres for people so they can be given half a chance at being comfortable playing.

I always thought a poolroom in an indoor shopping mall, well lit with lots of room and no off the wall ( I use the term loosely) music blaring, would offer a more inviting atmosphere. Maybe even a nice pizza area for folks to come in for a bite and a quick look at folks playing.
------------------------------------

But the very best chance pool has to gain popularity is to include it as a competitive activity for school kids to get involved with from middle school upward. School teams, tournaments and such will not only have the kids interest, but the parents will get involved, and from there, popularity will take off like a rocket.

For the masses, the game is too difficult, and additionally, too frustrating and set in a too uncomfortable environment for the masses to take initial interest in.
 
Now take pool. It comes from a seedy past. It certainly is intimidating to walk into a pool room as well. You don't really have a great deal of "your own space" while playing. When I had my poolroom, it was obvious to see newcomers lost for a place to stand, what to hold, or how to act when it wasn't their turn. Newcomers are intimidated by the complexity of the game.

3andStop,

All the reasons you posted are a testament to the fact that for new players you take a stab at recruitment using a tool that make it appear easy and fun, then you let the new recruits decide how in depth they want to go with it. People will come in and out of pool for various reasons and they always will, no stopping that.

However recruitment by a means that is steady, cheap and produces occasional results I think is something worth while. You just keep with it and let things go as they may. What I see is that the mechanism hasnt yet been indentified I really dont know a room owner that is actively recruiting using any method. I hope to fix that but as far as players recruiting players I dont think that is going to produce any steady flow of people.
 
I have heard a lot of theories about what is wrong with pool. Not enough sponsorship money, tournaments don't pay out enough (or at all in some cases), too many groups like the ABP causing in-fighting, Bonus Ball drama, etc.

Here's what I think is wrong with pool...

I have been watching football with the same group of guys for over a decade. Its a mixed group spanning construction, military, college professors, etc. This coming weekend I'm hosting the NFL conference championships and in the invite email mentioned the fact that this year there's a pool table in the front room with the TV.

The responses I got back were something like:

"Pool table?"
"Is there another TV or just that one?"

Huh? There are a couple of guys who have played before but even they were very blase about the prospect of shooting some pool while watching the games.

This is what is wrong with pool.

I have read posts on this forum from players wondering why more people don't watch professional pool. Maybe its because they don't even want to play it casually with friends. My feeling is that many of the people involved with pool have been doing it so long they have forgotten a time when they weren't interested in pool and over the years their social circle has become increasingly dominated by people from the pool world. (leagues, tournaments, etc.)

My friends are definitely sports oriented group who watch most major professional sports and I am having to politely ask them to keep an open mind about pool. This is why ESPN doesn't want to show pool more often.

If you want to fix pool then I believe we all need to work on fixing it. That means CJ, Mark, Jay, Barry and anyone else who may or may not read this post. Pool doesn't need another variation to avoid racking tricks, a new pro tour, better league management, more gambling or anything like that. Before any of that will work pool needs more people to not balk at the thought of just picking up a cue and hitting some balls with their buddies. What pool needs is for ALL of you to ask someone you don't think has played ever or lately to go play some pool with you for fun.

Fortunately I already did this once with one guy from this group awhile back by getting him to play a few games of 8-ball with me at a bar table in a local sports bar so I have one ally in the group. And I'm hoping with his help I might create one or two more converts on Sunday.

If that doesn't work maybe I'll try going door-to-door. That works out for some religions, right? :thumbup:

There is a catch-22 with pool. Pool has so faded away there is nowhere to play beyond some bars or maybe a home table. How can you generate interest in a game you can't go play even if you want to.
 
Now take pool. It comes from a seedy past. It certainly is intimidating to walk into a pool room as well. You don't really have a great deal of "your own space" while playing. When I had my poolroom, it was obvious to see newcomers lost for a place to stand, what to hold, or how to act when it wasn't their turn. Newcomers are intimidated by the complexity of the game.

3andStop,

All the reasons you posted are a testament to the fact that for new players you take a stab at recruitment using a tool that make it appear easy and fun, then you let the new recruits decide how in depth they want to go with it. People will come in and out of pool for various reasons and they always will, no stopping that.

However recruitment by a means that is steady, cheap and produces occasional results I think is something worth while. You just keep with it and let things go as they may. What I see is that the mechanism hasnt yet been indentified I really dont know a room owner that is actively recruiting using any method. I hope to fix that but as far as players recruiting players I dont think that is going to produce any steady flow of people.


We will always be able to persuade interest in the game to a few, but I am really a firm believer that in order to really make pool mainstream, it has to be a school activity, one that starts with early teens, and I think 8 ball is the best game to use for that.

I know sporting good stores are full of parents buying baseball, softball, skating, equipment. I can picture them buying cues, gloves, instructional materials as well if the kids were involved in school.

Wish I knew how to get it established, donating tables from pool rooms is a possibility, but getting schools involved is another thing.
 
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