Thoughts on pool ,life and 5 inch pockets

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not sure I agree with the "should not go in" part. That assumes that the tighter pockets are what everyone "should be playing". If you are better than another player on a table with tighter pockets, you should be better than that same player on a table with wider pockets. I guess I don't see the possibility that the weaker player may make a "lucky" shot or two is really the reason for tighter pockets - same margin for error for the better player - that's just what the table allows.

If pro players and the average recreational player are really that much better than years gone by, by all means challenge them if that is what they are looking for.

I have an old Anniversary, I'm sure the pockets may be "easy" by what appear to be more modern standards, but I agree with deanoc (luckily I've just had the one table, lol) - I enjoy playing on it and apparently it allows some different options for shots that simply make it different, not better or worse.

Play on whatever you enjoy playing on and accept that the game on whatever table you are playing on is the game you adapt to, IMO.

I entirely agree with this post- and I second his reference to calling out people who say that any ball pocketed on a 5 inch corner pocket table "should not go in" - who are they- self appointed rulers of the pocket billiard world? I could say the same when I miss on a pro cut Diamond- " that shot should go in!" Even at age 66 I would love to compete on 5 inch pockets with 90% of those on this site who "adore" the 4 1/2s and see how much better they can play than me.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
I understand. My point is that in most commercial settings tables 4.5" and smaller are too tough for your regular recreational crowd. They want to have fun and see balls go in. That's what brings them back. Have a couple snug ones for the better players and have the rest a tad more generous. Pool business is tough enough as it is.

True! Having both kinds of tables works for everyone!
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
It just seems like a really dumb thing to get so argumentative and preachy about. 5" was a normal corner pocket until fairly recently. It's not as if they are oversized, they just aren't tight.

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BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Some people play because they love the game, the clicking of the balls, the feel of the cue as soon as the tip contacts the cue ball, the satisfaction of making a great shot and putting whitey exactly where you intend for the next shot. It's like nothing else in the world exists except you, your cue, and the pool table. And you don't have to be a world beater to experience and appreciate such a love for the game.

If 5" pockets and shallow pocket shelves bring out a player's love for playing pool, then I encourage it. You only live once, and though you can't always enjoy every moment of your life, you should at least find enjoyment in the things you love doing.

For 20 years I had a super tough table with 4 3/8" corner pockets, deep shelves, and about 145° facings. I once ran 78 balls on that baby playing straights. But over the years I probably rattled thousands of balls, which wasn't fun. It was a great table for gambling, but a lousy table to bring out one's love for the game.

For some of us, the tighter the better. We love the game, but we also love a tough challenge, especially when money is involved and your opponent is forced to deal with the same tough challenge. It makes winning more enjoyable, more meaningful. There is a fine line between playing for the love of playing and playing for the love of winning. And when you cross this line, pool becomes something that is only enjoyable when you are gambling, when you're winning, when money has lost its value. A 20 or 100 dollar bill is no longer grocery money or dance lessons for daughters or dinner with the wife. Instead, it's a reason to play pool.
 

jackpot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Simple solution

Some company needs to make pool balls in different sizes. Starting marble, to grape fruit, just need one table. Easy to handicap 8 ball, but not sure what the rack would look like using two different size balls at the same time. Maybe john Hager could make one.
Jack
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How about looking at it like this...

To win a game on tight pockets, one must play at level 48.

To win a game on loose pockets, one must play level 41.

Say one player plays level 48 and the other, level 43.

There is no difference on 2nd table.

Drastic oversimplification, but that's the reason a hack can beat a few bullies in a 2014 bar box tourney.

I'm not sure I agree with the "should not go in" part. That assumes that the tighter pockets are what everyone "should be playing". If you are better than another player on a table with tighter pockets, you should be better than that same player on a table with wider pockets. I guess I don't see the possibility that the weaker player may make a "lucky" shot or two is really the reason for tighter pockets - same margin for error for the better player - that's just what the table allows.

If pro players and the average recreational player are really that much better than years gone by, by all means challenge them if that is what they are looking for.

I have an old Anniversary, I'm sure the pockets may be "easy" by what appear to be more modern standards, but I agree with deanoc (luckily I've just had the one table, lol) - I enjoy playing on it and apparently it allows some different options for shots that simply make it different, not better or worse.

Play on whatever you enjoy playing on and accept that the game on whatever table you are playing on is the game you adapt to, IMO.
 

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Gatz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mostly all 9ft tables around here. There is one pool hall with a few Valley Bar boxes, I enjoy playing on them. What I started to notice is that my stroke would be really on point moving over to a 9ft table after hitting some on a barbox table. I found the barbox gave me so much confidence without even knowing it in my stroke. Everything gets smooth and straight.

I don’t really get it, but anytime i see a barbox available, i hit some balls on it before hand for a bit. There really is something to say about being confident in your ability to do something and a big bucket barbox gives you lots of confidence.
 

mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member
Its just my opinion. No need to argue:)

Trent

No need to argue.
Discuss, Debate. Communicate.

Argue: Exchange or express diverging or opposite views, typically in a heated or angry way.

Discuss: Talk about (something) with another person or group of people.

Debate: A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing viewpoints are put forward.
 
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trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
It just seems like a really dumb thing to get so argumentative and preachy about. 5" was a normal corner pocket until fairly recently. It's not as if they are oversized, they just aren't tight.

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You are entitled to your opinion :) Does not mean I have to agree with it :)


Trent
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
My home table is a Diamond with 4 1/4" corner pockets and it plays tough as nails. The pro players that come through here love to practice on it. You would be amazed to see how good they can play on this table compared to us average bangers. That's where I really see the difference in their ability. Dennis and Shane can run out on my table like water playing Ten Ball. Lesser players struggle to run more than one rack of 9-Ball (me included). My personal highlights after six years of ownership have been running five banks and out on Warren Kiamco in the case game for dinner, and running four banks on Dennis to win a single game to see who buys breakfast. I only needed to run four because that was my spot, 5-4. He begged me to play him some Banks one morning to see who buys breakfast, and I didn't want to do it. I got up there cold and broke and ran four banks. I kept the great Dennis Orcollo in his chair. I'll never let him forget that either!

That said, my experience as a poolroom owner (four and counting :wink:) has been that the bangers will play on any table you have available if they want to be in your business enjoying themselves. Even my tight "player" tables got a lot of play on my busy nights and no one complained. Believe it or not, in my first poolroom in Bakersfield I had two 10' snooker tables and twenty two 9' Gold Crowns. On busy weekend nights when we would get a waiting list of a dozen or more people, they were glad to play with pool balls on the snooker table just to be able to play and not sit around. Oh, the good old days when hanging out in the local poolroom was the thing to do. I didn't realize until years later what a good thing I had going up there. After my divorce I sold the place - BIG MISTAKE! I was making coin every day. I just wanted to go back to the big city of Los Angeles. :cool:
 
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trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
We need to go to 4” pockets!

You can only go so small as the next “progression” comes along.
You might as well start playing Asian 8 Ball or English Black Ball.
What’s next?
Place obstacles in the way?
How about posts with bumpers placed statically on the table to bounce off of and make a ball?
Where do you “progress” from here?

This comes across as argumentative. Do you speak to people in person this way? No, I am betting you do not.
You come across as very argumentative, demanding and condescending. I may be wrong and your intent is not this. I find myself doing it on here to. I guess I might start working on it and trying to be less abrasive. I do not mean anyone any ill will and not trying to upset or piss anyone off!

:)

Trent from Toledo
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
I’ve played on a lot of different pocket sizes....
...under 3 inch at snooker....3 and 3/8 pool on a 5x10
..played one pocket on a 4x8 GC with 5 inch pockets

If you play better than the other guy...you will get the money.

I’m with garczar about the tight pockets...it does not help a room stay in business...
...most of your customers can’t have fun on them.

Personally, tight pockets have been good for my bankroll....
...but I have never played on a tight table for pleasure.

As for arguing vs discussion, the Socratic method is ‘examination by argument’....
...nothing wrong with it....it IS wrong to lose your temper, though.

‘Course, if you get too good at the Socratic style of debating....
...you may be encouraged to take a double hemlock...:eek:
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
So that’s why our tables play so tough - they are 143 degrees!

UM, no. 143 would be a WIDER angle or rather more open degree of angle from the mouth towards the throat of the pocket.

trent

p.s. this picture will help you i think and also is for Jay Helfert!
 

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trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Look at it this way, you will never be the most argumentative and abrasive table mechanic here.

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TRUE FACT, I am not trying to be a jerk. Sorry if I come across that way! You are not far from me, we should play pool sometime!

Trent
 
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