Threading shaft collars

qbilder said:
Why do you assume it has anything to do with time?
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Honestly that was just part of it. Being a former back yard golf club builder for 20 + years, I completely understand the idea of scuffing, as far as adhesives are concerned. It just seems to me that threading would logically create a secondary, or mechanical bond, as well as the adhesive. Even after meticulously scuffing both the shaft, and the inside of the hosel of the club head, I have seen these things come loose. Most of that I would attribute to owner negligence, or abuse. At any rate the time aspect was but one, and I probably should have expounded my thoughts. FWIW, concerning the golf club comparison, I do realize that we're talking about two different types of force, strike, swing, stroke, etc. In the end, whatever keeps the qmakers and their customers happy, is OK by me. :cool:
j2
 
I guess it's possible to regrind a bottom tap , so you get nice threads all the way in, but if you do collars in batches, it's just as quick to live tool them...
 
Read this thread a month ago and since I don't know much of anything I decided to thread a shaft and see how it went. Oops.

The sequence of rings required a thin wood ring against the threaded collar to match the cue. Screwing that collar against the wood ring without blowing it out is pretty tricky bordering on damned near impossible. The twisting split it. After trying three times I gave up. I think a press fit will be better for this one. Or different ring work planning.

JC
 
JC said:
Read this thread a month ago and since I don't know much of anything I decided to thread a shaft and see how it went. Oops.

The sequence of rings required a thin wood ring against the threaded collar to match the cue. Screwing that collar against the wood ring without blowing it out is pretty tricky bordering on damned near impossible. The twisting split it. After trying three times I gave up. I think a press fit will be better for this one. Or different ring work planning.

JC
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Or different ring work planning? Exactly.
 
JC said:
Read this thread a month ago and since I don't know much of anything I decided to thread a shaft and see how it went. Oops.

The sequence of rings required a thin wood ring against the threaded collar to match the cue. Screwing that collar against the wood ring without blowing it out is pretty tricky bordering on damned near impossible. The twisting split it. After trying three times I gave up. I think a press fit will be better for this one. Or different ring work planning.

JC
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You showed initiative and learned. That's more than some would do.
I find that noteworthy. Thanx for your efforts and your post.
To expand on your post, in doing cue repair, you don't always have a choice.
You match the ring-set exactly. Close doesn't always get you to close enough.

KJ

FY-consideration : A wood ring against a wood shaft doesn't need threading.
The porosity of the woods is adequate. Should you want to thread the remaining rings,
let the first thin wood ring cure before installing the rest.
 
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In my experience, I've seen every methodology fail. It boils down to not what you do, it's how well you execute what you do.
 
I tried threading shaft collars about 40 years ago.

I quickly discovered that the threads seem to put unwanted tension in the shaft.
The reason being that one side of the collar seats before the other side. That's the way threads all work.

After that, I eliminated all unnecessary threads in my cues in the hope of producing a better playing cue.

Today's Epoxies are really amazing. You should have seen what we had to work with 50 years ago.

Bill S.
 
ratcues said:
In my experience, I've seen every methodology fail. It boils down to not what you do, it's how well you execute what you do.
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bstroud said:
I tried threading shaft collars about 40 years ago.

I quickly discovered that the threads seem to put unwanted tension in the shaft.
The reason being that one side of the collar seats before the other side. That's the way threads all work.

After that, I eliminated all unnecessary threads in my cues in the hope of producing a better playing cue.

Today's Epoxies are really amazing. You should have seen what we had to work with 50 years ago.

Bill S.
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Spoken by in-arguably two of the most experienced cue people ever. The list of people with more experience than either of these two guys would likely be less than ten in the history of cues. Regardless of opinions and chosen methodology, the words these guys say should carry some weight, and I appreciate that they share them.
 
Let's call Dave and pick his brain.
dsc_4394.jpg

Nobody in the history of the universe has done rings as well as he has.
 
qbilder said:
IMO, rings have little to do with threading collars.
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In a way, that is true.
But, a dash under the collar actually helps in seating that threaded collar. A little give helps. It also mates with the shoulder face better b/c it has some give. Squeezes the glue out too.
.Read this thread a month ago and since I don't know much of anything I decided to thread a shaft and see how it went. Oops.

The sequence of rings required a thin wood ring against the threaded collar to match the cue. Screwing that collar against the wood ring without blowing it out is pretty tricky bordering on damned near impossible. The twisting split it. After trying three times I gave up. I think a press fit will be better for this one. Or different ring work planning.

JC
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JC committed a fundamental mistake.
If he looks at that picture, he'll figure it out .
 
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It was interesting to read Bill's comments about threads and pulling up on one side ahead of the other. This is very true when the threads are not made concentric to the collar face and the inside (nut/ collar) or the outside (bolt/shaft). The only real way to make concentric threads is for them to be cut with tooling, ie single point or live tooling. Taps and dies,even the guided ones, are not as accurate as single pointed/live threaded components. With collars, having a small groove that aligns on both parts, acts like a glue circlip and can help to hold an assembly together.
So like Ryan infers, there are lots of ways to achieve the similar result.
Neil
 
JoeyInCali said:
In a way, that is true.
But, a dash under the collar actually helps in seating that threaded collar. A little give helps. It also mates with the shoulder face better b/c it has some give. Squeezes the glue out too.

JC committed a fundamental mistake.
If he looks at that picture, he'll figure it out .
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I can't tell from the photos. Are those shaft collars threaded?

Actually I was making two of these shafts to match and the first one worked just fine it was the second one that kept splitting the rings. I used 2 ton epoxy and it was a little thicker by the time I glued the second one together a couple minutes later and this may have been the culprit. Too grippy on the ring. Another type of ring to buffer it would have helped a lot I think. Common sense says if you twist on the face of a thin wooden ring it's likely to break.


I'll just keep trying until I like what I see.

JC
 
JC said:
I can't tell from the photos. Are those shaft collars threaded?

I'll just keep trying until I like what I see.

JC
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Although to the naked eye it can appear that they may not be, I can reassure you every joint collar,(shafts and butt) butt cap and ferrules are mechanically bonded along with some glue mixed in on my cues. Just as everyone else has theirs....I have my reasons for doing so and stand by them 100%.

And that's exactly how I did it....just kept trying till the end results was to my satisfaction.
Being our own toughest critic is no easy job. :cool:
 
I sure hope those heavy stainless steel joint collars are threaded.
I don't care what epoxy is used, sooner or later they are going to rattle if they have no mechanical bond.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I sure hope those heavy stainless steel joint collars are threaded.
I don't care what epoxy is used, sooner or later they are going to rattle if they have no mechanical bond.
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You'd be surprised to know which HOFers' don't/didn't thread the tenon for a steel collar, and for the similar reason Bill mentioned. Personally, I'm with Ryan. Anything can fail and anything can hold, depending on how well it was or wasn't done.
 
qbilder said:
You'd be surprised to know which HOFers' don't/didn't thread the tenon for a steel collar, and for the similar reason Bill mentioned. Personally, I'm with Ryan. Anything can fail and anything can hold, depending on how well it was or wasn't done.
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Not shocked.
Seen Delrin not threaded. Only the weight bolt was holding it.
Saw stacked set screws for weight bolt on x-ray . Not threaded.
 
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