Three foul rule

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A question was posed to me the other day regarding the three foul penalty rule in 14.1. The question regarded the obligation of the opponent to notify the player at the table that he is on two fouls prior to his shooting.

I don't know if there is a requirement other than a sportsmanship way of playing without a referee, or if there is actually a written rule on this. Anyone know? thanks ....
 
yes, you must notify your opponent that they are on 2 fouls prior to them shooting. It is a rule. Without a ref in 14.1 , it then becomes the responsibility of the opponent to notify the offending player

6.14 Three Consecutive Fouls
If a player fouls three times without making an intervening legal shot, it is a serious foul. In games scored by the rack, such as nine ball, the fouls must be in a single rack. Some games such as eight ball do not include this rule.
The referee must warn a shooter who is on two fouls when he comes to the table that he is on two fouls. Otherwise a possible third foul will be considered to be only the second.
 
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Thank you! Guess I never considered looking at any other rules besides BCA. I'm happy I can show this person a written rule. :)
 
Most welcome, the WPA are "the rules" now, BCA is now a voting member of the WPA as I understand it. Whenever rules are not written into the "game" rules, then refer to the general rules as they apply.
 
I guess my age is showing. I haven't had the need to look into a rule book since I was in business 15yrs ago.

I understand the general rules are the basis of the game, but, LOL What I didn't understand was that the BCA wasn't the basis of the rules. :speechless:
 
To-may-to, To-mah-to...

Strange, but I read this difference between the BCA rules and the WPA rules on "Successive Fouls Penalties":

BCA (World Standardized Rules, sect. 6.12) says:
?The incoming player has the choice of 1). accepting the balls in position, or 2). having all 15 balls re-racked and requiring the offending player to shoot under the requirements of the opening break."
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WPA (14.1 Continuous rules, Sect. 4.11 'Serious Fouls', with reference to Sect. 6.14 'Three Consecutive Fouls') says:
"All fifteen balls are re-racked and the offending player is required to shoot under the requirements of the opening break.
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So, does the incoming player have that option, or are the balls re-racked?

I always thought the game continued with the table as it lay.
 
Str8PoolMan said:
I always thought the game continued with the table as it lay.
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And for the 45+ yrs I've been playing this game, I've always thought it was mandatory to re rack the balls and the offending player has to break with the rules of the opening break. :)


edit .. but I also always thought there was only one set of rules. It's pretty hard for us to know when the powers that be don't get it straight. :( I hope 14.1 doesn't get like 8 ball, where you have more sets of rules than Carter has liver pills. (now there's an old saying) :)
 
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Str8PoolMan said:
Strange, but I read this difference between the BCA rules and the WPA rules on "Successive Fouls Penalties":

BCA (World Standardized Rules, sect. 6.12) says:


WPA (14.1 Continuous rules, Sect. 4.11 'Serious Fouls', with reference to Sect. 6.14 'Three Consecutive Fouls') says:


So, does the incoming player have that option, or are the balls re-racked?

I always thought the game continued with the table as it lay.
Click to expand...

Note that the WPA rules have recently been rewritten, the BCA site may not reflect new changes, but I am not totally sure on this. I know that I always played the balls are reracked and the offending player has to break.
 
Te BCA was always a rerack and opening breakshot. I think.

I also seem to remember sometime in the 80's or 90's when the penalty for three in a row was 1 point for each of the first two scratches and then either 15 points or 10% of your score, whichever was greater, for the third foul. But I could be wrong.
 
I didn't know about the re-rack, but I did hear about the 15 pt deduction.

Learn something new I guess...
 
selftaut said:
Note that the WPA rules have recently been rewritten, the BCA site may not reflect new changes, but I am not totally sure on this. I know that I always played the balls are reracked and the offending player has to break.
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I heard that when the new rules went into effect in January, there is no longer an option and the balls must be re-racked and the offending player has to break as in the beginning of the game.
 
Str8PoolMan said:
Strange, but I read this difference between the BCA rules and the WPA rules on "Successive Fouls Penalties":

BCA (World Standardized Rules, sect. 6.12) says:


WPA (14.1 Continuous rules, Sect. 4.11 'Serious Fouls', with reference to Sect. 6.14 'Three Consecutive Fouls') says:


So, does the incoming player have that option, or are the balls re-racked?

I always thought the game continued with the table as it lay.
Click to expand...

We need Bob Jewett to weigh in on this thread. I thought you automatically re-racked and the player who took three fouls was forced to break. During the Ortmann vs Schmidt IPT straight pool match Mike Sigel said it is better to take the third foul and re-rack than to drive a ball to the rail and in the process leave a shot for the opponent.
 
3 fouls = 15 and rerack

alstl said:
We need Bob Jewett to weigh in on this thread. I thought you automatically re-racked and the player who took three fouls was forced to break. During the Ortmann vs Schmidt IPT straight pool match Mike Sigel said it is better to take the third foul and re-rack than to drive a ball to the rail and in the process leave a shot for the opponent.
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He already weighed in on it a while back. As I said above, the rerack is now mandatory:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=96320&highlight=rules+fouls


Yes, a re-rack is mandatory under the current rules which came into effect in January. People venturing opinions on what the rules say may want to arm themselves with fact by reading the new rules. There is no law requiring you to read the rules, but there is no law against it, either.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?co...les_tournament

The rules are now like they were in the 30s-60s with regard to the 15-point penalty. In about 1980, someone decided that they would screw with the rule and various changes were seen starting about then including a loss of 20% of the match for three fouls and (as was stated above) an option by the non-offending player to take the balls as they sat. I think there was no particularly good reason for a change.
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Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
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dmgwalsh said:
He already weighed in on it a while back. As I said above, the rerack is now mandatory: ...
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The link to the BCA website given above is to the old, obsolete rules. The current, active link for 14.1 rules is:

http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/14.1ContinuousPool_January2008.pdf

which you can also get to by starting at the BCA's home page. A better source is the WPA web site which presumably will show any official changes sooner.

A larger change to the 14.1 rules is the disappearance of the nurse safety rule. It was replaced by a stalemate rule.

A minor change that excited some people is the suggestion that if the 15th ball has to be spotted on the foot spot, it is OK to use the triangle to ensure a tight rack.
 
Tapping The Cue Ball With The Ferrule

Bob Jewett said:
The link to the BCA website given above is to the old, obsolete rules. The current, active link for 14.1 rules is:

http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/14.1ContinuousPool_January2008.pdf

which you can also get to by starting at the BCA's home page. A better source is the WPA web site which presumably will show any official changes sooner.

A larger change to the 14.1 rules is the disappearance of the nurse safety rule. It was replaced by a stalemate rule.

A minor change that excited some people is the suggestion that if the 15th ball has to be spotted on the foot spot, it is OK to use the triangle to ensure a tight rack.
Click to expand...

I don't think Bob ever weighed in on the situation when the player, attempting to take an intentional foul, taps the cue ball with the ferrule rather than the tip a la Reyes against West. Is that an automatic 15 points and rerack? When there is no referee, what is the penalty and where in the rules is the support for that penalty.

This happens in league play once or twice a session and it would be nice to have a solid rule.
 
dmgwalsh said:
I don't think Bob ever weighed in on the situation when the player, attempting to take an intentional foul, taps the cue ball with the ferrule rather than the tip a la Reyes against West. Is that an automatic 15 points and rerack? When there is no referee, what is the penalty and where in the rules is the support for that penalty.

This happens in league play once or twice a session and it would be nice to have a solid rule.
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A perfectly solid rule is unavailable.

First see Rule 6.6, "Touched Ball." That says that it is unsportsmanlike conduct to intentionally move the cue ball when it is in play other than by a shot. A shot is tip-to-ball contact caused by a forward motion of the stick.

Down in 6.16, "Unsportsmanlike Conduct," we see that the usual penalty for it is like a "serious foul" which is to say an addtional 15-point penalty and a rerack and rebreak, but the referee is -- as always for unsportsmanlike conduct -- empowered to administer a different penalty. In the absence of a referee, I guess you would have to go with the usual penalty for USLC.

I think that ignorance of the rules, now that they are changing relatively infrequently, is no excuse.
 
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