maybe consider putting a small piece of foam padding on the butt of your cue, like a piece of that pipe insulation.
Throwing Your Cue....
- Thread starter SpiderWebComm
- Start date
Bigjohn said:If I had a room and caught you performing this abuse on my table... I'd throw you right out!
Dude, it's so not abuse. You might as well kick out all the kids trying jump shots, masses, everyone jacking up, and everyone who doesn't use a break-pad.
My table doesn't have 1 mark on it from dropping... not one. The head string, however, is marred with break marks. The cue drops about 1"... you damage the table more by dropping balls into the rack from the ball-well.
Dave
Amen Big C...and then there's the ULTIMATE quote from Oz..."They don't know what they don't know!"...which is, of course, WHY you came to pool school. Now, at least, you KNOW what you don't know, and, more importantly, how to fix it! :thumbup:
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Big C said:
cue throwing
I occasionally do the 'catch and release'. It is occasional and so subconcious that I couldn't even tell you which shots I do it on.
I don't think that it is any different from a very loose grip. Bottom line is that you are not using any muscle from your arm or wrist to the cue, just letting the pendulum swing do the work like Scott says. The only difference is that your hand is so loose that the cue slides through the grip after reaching top speed. If done correctly I don't think that it is harmful, but just know that it is the good stroke and timing that is effective, not a momentary release of the stick.
By the way, I really don't like dropping the cue like in the video. Besides, what if there were balls that you are shooting over???
I occasionally do the 'catch and release'. It is occasional and so subconcious that I couldn't even tell you which shots I do it on.
I don't think that it is any different from a very loose grip. Bottom line is that you are not using any muscle from your arm or wrist to the cue, just letting the pendulum swing do the work like Scott says. The only difference is that your hand is so loose that the cue slides through the grip after reaching top speed. If done correctly I don't think that it is harmful, but just know that it is the good stroke and timing that is effective, not a momentary release of the stick.
By the way, I really don't like dropping the cue like in the video. Besides, what if there were balls that you are shooting over???
not to be critical of this technique of yours but why does this make any sense? your actually letting go of the cue after the tip makes contact with the cueball and the cueball is gone well before you completely release the cue. so it should have no effect what so ever on the shot right? I can see that knowing your going to release the cue would tend to help you hold the cue softly but I can't see any benefit to the actual outcome of the shot?
Beware_of_Dawg...Correctamundo, Sir (actually BEFORE you can even let go of the cue)! Ding, ding, ding...we have a WINNER!:thumbup:
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Beware_of_Dawg said:
Just to clarify: when you "throw" the cue, does the tip contact the o.b. at the very end of the thrown travel or somewhere towards the midpoint of it? I've tried this method before, and while it feels very natural, I don't seem to pot any better.SpiderWebComm said:I posted this in the Houle thread, but many of you already know how to aim so you probably avoided the thread and missed the info...so I thought I'd copy it here.
Some might think this is extreme, but it isn't.... not at all. I spoke to Jerry from NYC Grind at the Million Dollar 9-ball and just seeing him reminded me to do a video of throwing your cue. I learned this from Nick Mannino nearly 10 years ago. I believe he picked this up from Gene Nagy. At the time, I couldn't incorporate it into my game because my stroke and aiming weren't up to snuff yet.
I use this technique all the time. Although I say you should only stay on the vertical axis of the CB while throwing, you don't have to at all. In fact, it's extremely effective for all shots. I mention vertical axis because I personally use it to cinch crucial shots. When used with Vitello's system or CTE, it removes the human element of b1tching your stroke. Can you b1tch your throw? I guess. Nerves make you tighten-up and turn your cue...making the CB squirt and voila... you miss like a loser.
Long straight-in shots a problem? Do you keep dogging crucial shots for your league team? Do you always dog money balls? You can't steer the cue or tighten-up when the cue is spearing straight through the CB.
Experiment with this... it's easy to learn and will make (save) you moolah.
http://www.poolvids.com/view/52/throwing-your-cue/
P.S. I never really thanked Nick for this because I was young and ignorant 10 years ago and didn't realize how strong this really is. So, if you're out there Nick....."thanks."
Cradle the cue.
You don't actually have to let the cue come out of your hand. The releasing of the cue is just the result of the extreme throwing motion. The point of the exercise, as I see it, is to get the back hand relaxed enough so that it does not twist the cue. One of the great stroke robbers is the HD grip, AKA Hand of Death. There are others as well.Beware_of_Dawg said:
looks good to me, the rock followed the OB in to the hole everytime, or on the last draw whot he sucked the rok back into the pocket he was standing over.
when I was a C player i spent alot of $$$ trying to steer the CB and dogged the easiest $$$ balls ever, I'm gonna get out a banged up cue and play with this, had I not seen the video I would have disreagrded it as rubbish, but I like Dave alot and the video didnt lie, and he isrght about a second thind I'm do ing that with a Bushka...
when I was a C player i spent alot of $$$ trying to steer the CB and dogged the easiest $$$ balls ever, I'm gonna get out a banged up cue and play with this, had I not seen the video I would have disreagrded it as rubbish, but I like Dave alot and the video didnt lie, and he isrght about a second thind I'm do ing that with a Bushka...
Scott Lee and Beware of Dawg: you seem to believe that what Dave is talking about is releasing the cue AFTER it has struck the cue ball. No. I believe he is talking about releasing the cue BEFORE it strikes the cue ball.
What Dave is demonstrating has a lot of validity, although it is not necessary to take it to the extreme of dropping the stick on the table. The purpose, as he says, is to maximize the chances of not jerking or turning the stick as the ball is struck.
Anyone who has had a lesson with Jerry Briesath will probably remember one of his favorite questions: "What is a pool stroke?" After the student fumbles around for a bit, Jerry answers that a pool stroke should be a perfect throwing motion. Jerry doesn't take it to the point of releasing the cue, but that is the natural extension of his definition. Have you ever thrown anything without releasing it?
I began experimenting with this technique many years ago after watching Efren Reyes. I don't know whether he is still doing it, but at that time, on many shots, at the instant when the cue stick struck the cue ball Efren's grip hand had NO pressure on the stick. The stick was merely slipping through his grip hand. I guess this is called "release and catch." It is different from a "slip stroke," a term usually meant to describe the grip hand slipping back on the butt BEFORE the forward stroke.
So Dave's demonstration is not crazy, although it is not essential to completely drop the stick (that part could be highly undesirable if other balls could be disturbed). The practice has a long history with some pretty good players.
What Dave is demonstrating has a lot of validity, although it is not necessary to take it to the extreme of dropping the stick on the table. The purpose, as he says, is to maximize the chances of not jerking or turning the stick as the ball is struck.
Anyone who has had a lesson with Jerry Briesath will probably remember one of his favorite questions: "What is a pool stroke?" After the student fumbles around for a bit, Jerry answers that a pool stroke should be a perfect throwing motion. Jerry doesn't take it to the point of releasing the cue, but that is the natural extension of his definition. Have you ever thrown anything without releasing it?
I began experimenting with this technique many years ago after watching Efren Reyes. I don't know whether he is still doing it, but at that time, on many shots, at the instant when the cue stick struck the cue ball Efren's grip hand had NO pressure on the stick. The stick was merely slipping through his grip hand. I guess this is called "release and catch." It is different from a "slip stroke," a term usually meant to describe the grip hand slipping back on the butt BEFORE the forward stroke.
So Dave's demonstration is not crazy, although it is not essential to completely drop the stick (that part could be highly undesirable if other balls could be disturbed). The practice has a long history with some pretty good players.
Big C said:
Bingo. I've seen people release and catch and still steer.
Nice post Spider keep em coming. It's the people that pay attention and learn from these unconventional concepts and keep an open mind about things are the ones who improve in the long run. People have to learn to take things for more than face value. I wouldn't worry to much about the whiners on here, thats one reason I hardly post...
question then....
starting with the idea that your arm is at the ideal 90* angle when the tip makes contact with the cuebal and that the tip and the CB & tip stay in contact for some tiny fraction of a fraction of a second.. l are you proposing that he releases the cue stick before his stroke arm reaches that 90* therefore realeasing it on the "downstroke"?
I don't think that could be and would introduce a number of new viarable which would render that shot inconsistant and highly unreliable. As witnessed in the video, he was able to perform that stroke (as most can) with a high degree of consistancy... begging the conclusion that at best he releases the cue at exactly 90* again introducing fractions of fractions of spilt seconds that high grip hand is not in contact with the cuestick before contact with the tip/CB and that's at VERY VERY best. more than likely he is releasing simultaniously at very best with the error going on the past 90* degree side, after the fact. That is the only way that you could perform this consistantly.
Again, I see the value in this technique as a way to trick your mind to hold the cue softly perhaps or relax your grip hand at contact.
I am no expert nor do I claim to be but the physics have to be scrutinized to be reccognized as valid. No?
starting with the idea that your arm is at the ideal 90* angle when the tip makes contact with the cuebal and that the tip and the CB & tip stay in contact for some tiny fraction of a fraction of a second.. l are you proposing that he releases the cue stick before his stroke arm reaches that 90* therefore realeasing it on the "downstroke"?
I don't think that could be and would introduce a number of new viarable which would render that shot inconsistant and highly unreliable. As witnessed in the video, he was able to perform that stroke (as most can) with a high degree of consistancy... begging the conclusion that at best he releases the cue at exactly 90* again introducing fractions of fractions of spilt seconds that high grip hand is not in contact with the cuestick before contact with the tip/CB and that's at VERY VERY best. more than likely he is releasing simultaniously at very best with the error going on the past 90* degree side, after the fact. That is the only way that you could perform this consistantly.
Again, I see the value in this technique as a way to trick your mind to hold the cue softly perhaps or relax your grip hand at contact.
I am no expert nor do I claim to be but the physics have to be scrutinized to be reccognized as valid. No?
Beware_of_Dawg said:
Beware of Dog--
I know for a fact I'm releasing before contact.... no doubt in my mind. The purpose for me posting this is it might be the most reliable way of pocketing under pressure I have found over the years. If I didn't think that, I wouldn't have posted it--- obviously.
You make a valid point--- and I don't mind anyone scrutinizing it. I'm one of the few people who post videos of themselves on here for one reason.... I can "take" it like the best of 'em.... pretty thick skin.
Your bridge is crucial with this technique as it stabilizes the cue after the release. I'm sure the tip rises slightly after release, but I don't really care because it's spearing straight. The speed of my stroke nearly eliminates the variable... by the time my tip lifts slightly, the shot's already over.
If I had to draw a CB back into the pocket or follow it into a pocket for my life, I'd release the cue...but that's only me. Meaning, if I HAVE to make a ball and there are no balls in the way.... I like the move. Like the favorite AZB saying goes different strokes for different folks, right?
A good test for this is Kinister's Shot #1. MANY people dog that shot to death on a 9' table. When I'm loose, I can spear that CB and replace it with a high %. If someone told you to replace that shot for $100 - could you do it? Test yourself next time you're at a table. Hey, not saying I can at "will" --- it's a tough shot to execute "the right way." I'm saying my success rate is higher. If I take that bet, for whatever reason, the cue's flying.
SpiderWebComm said:
I'm not critizing you, your video or your exercise. Simply discussing it brother. Not argueing, protesting, etc, etc... Never get me wrong, That's not how I roll. I'm just trying to have a intelligent, semi informed conversation with another pool enthusiast. and if we were face to face having this talk, i would be using my "inside voice" lol.
I appreciate your contributions, video and efforts.
I don't know what Kinister Shot #1 is. Care to share?
Oh, and BTW it's just Dawg, or Dave. No need to beware.
~D4\/\/G~
Spider: your avatar improved 100 % 