tight pockets bad for pool?

[TATE]

There. I said it. I love playing on my tight a$$ Diamond pro and have enjoyed shimmed gold crowns as well. All egos aside (you know the common woof: you may be able to beat me on this loose table, but let's switch to a table with 0.00025" pockets and I'll rob you...), it could benefit pool substantially in my opinion if pro tournaments were played on tables with pockets at least as large (or angle, facing specs or whatever) so as to allow for the pocketing of more balls. Straight pool high runs would increase, the number of packages in rotation based games would increase, AND SO WOULD VIEWERSHIP AND HOPEFULLY THE POPULARITY OF OUR SPORT. Let's face it, high runs and packages are sexy. Let's encourage more of them.

Now, I'm not advocating playing on tables with big buckets or anything. Rather, just a reversal of the attitude that smaller is better. Maybe specs similar to the gold crowns that Earl ran that 10 pack on back in the day. I went to the last DCC on the last day of the 9 ball event. I watched the final couple dozen players or so for about 8 hours. In all that time, I only watched one player break and run more than one rack in a row. That was Adam Smith with two b&r's in a row. That was it. And these were the best in the world. Still in the field at that time were SVB, Archer, Corteza, and too many other world class players to mention. I say let's make our sport more interesting to average, casual players by making tables play like they did 20 years ago (incorporating modern, improved design elements of course, just not super tight pockets...).

What say you all?

It would be nice if there were some uniformity to the pockets including size and depth of shelf - especially for tournament table. At least the game of golf has some specs to the courses and a consistent hole size, lending to professionalism. Pool is Mickey Mouse in that regard. Diamond tables are not tight but the shelf makes them tricky. At least they set some sort of standard we can go by.

There is no serious player I know who likes to play on buckets. It makes the game a joke.

Chris

 

[book collector]

Tight pockets

I think most tables in the pool room should be regulation size or maybe a little bigger for the average people trying to learn to play or for the guys who can't play 2 or more hours a day every day. I also like a tight table to play 1 pocket or gamble at 9 ball . If you have a large group of gamblers or 1 pocket players, have more than 1 tight table. What I am seeing is tables that are shimmed to the point of making a great shot and it won't go in. I understand the economics of not being able to keep every table pristine but it seems in the last 5 years or so room owners don't care if the cloth is worn out, the balls are chipped and dirty or if the rails are loose in several places or that the customers opinion even matters. I wish them luck in the coming hard times as I think people will become more discerning about what they get for their dollar and a lot of these places will not survive. This seems to be a nationwide problem as I have seen it in most parts of the US.

 

[poolhustler]

Are these too tight?? I think they are just right. Yes, it plays tough, but my game has impoved because of the tight pockets. Although its a tough table, i enjoy it much more that when I play on a 5" pocketed table. It forces me to concentrate and really focus.

 

[Antfarm]

I would never say that making something more challanging is bad for a sport. As long as it doesn't make it impossible, all it does is foster stiffer competition and make people try harder/practice more to get better to be the best.

But, I also think that there is an argument to easier is better. For the beginners or casual player, easier tables are more fun because they can actually play on them. That kind of thing keep them more interested and in turn... will keep them playing longer. That's good for the sport too.

So, that is why in this great land, we have choices. YOU... can play on what you want or buy what you want.

Greg

 

[predator]

Your average Joe Banger would miss equally well on 5 inch pockets and on 4.25. Semi serious players will notice the difference, but bangers will not. Their game of 8ball will still last half an hour or so no matter what table they play on.

 

[LAlouie]

There. I said it. I love playing on my tight a$$ Diamond pro and have enjoyed shimmed gold crowns as well. All egos aside (you know the common woof: you may be able to beat me on this loose table, but let's switch to a table with 0.00025" pockets and I'll rob you...), it could benefit pool substantially in my opinion if pro tournaments were played on tables with pockets at least as large (or angle, facing specs or whatever) so as to allow for the pocketing of more balls. Straight pool high runs would increase, the number of packages in rotation based games would increase, AND SO WOULD VIEWERSHIP AND HOPEFULLY THE POPULARITY OF OUR SPORT. Let's face it, high runs and packages are sexy. Let's encourage more of them.

Now, I'm not advocating playing on tables with big buckets or anything. Rather, just a reversal of the attitude that smaller is better. Maybe specs similar to the gold crowns that Earl ran that 10 pack on back in the day. I went to the last DCC on the last day of the 9 ball event. I watched the final couple dozen players or so for about 8 hours. In all that time, I only watched one player break and run more than one rack in a row. That was Adam Smith with two b&r's in a row. That was it. And these were the best in the world. Still in the field at that time were SVB, Archer, Corteza, and too many other world class players to mention. I say let's make our sport more interesting to average, casual players by making tables play like they did 20 years ago (incorporating modern, improved design elements of course, just not super tight pockets...).

What say you all?

The biggest problem in pool is that the entry level is so low. You get teenagers who can give seasoned pros a hard time, and that SHOULD NEVER happen in any sport. It doesn't happen in other sports. There has to be some line drawn that separates the men from the boys.

 

[jalapus logan]

The biggest problem in pool is that the entry level is so low. You get teenagers who can give seasoned pros a hard time, and that SHOULD NEVER happen in any sport. It doesn't happen in other sports. There has to be some line drawn that separates the men from the boys.

Do you mean teenagers like Landon Shuffet? I think that he deserves his wins. If you practice like a pro, you can play like a pro, regardless of age, imo.

 

[jalapus logan]

Are these too tight?? I think they are just right. Yes, it plays tough, but my game has impoved because of the tight pockets. Although its a tough table, i enjoy it much more that when I play on a 5" pocketed table. It forces me to concentrate and really focus.

I love this table. I would love to PLAY on it, not watch a PRO TOURNAMENT match on it. To me, there is a distinction between being a player and being a viewer. If we want to increase the popularity of pool, more focus on the latter is needed.

 

[jalapus logan]

I would never say that making something more challanging is bad for a sport. As long as it doesn't make it impossible, all it does is foster stiffer competition and make people try harder/practice more to get better to be the best.

But, I also think that there is an argument to easier is better. For the beginners or casual player, easier tables are more fun because they can actually play on them. That kind of thing keep them more interested and in turn... will keep them playing longer. That's good for the sport too.

So, that is why in this great land, we have choices. YOU... can play on what you want or buy what you want.

Greg

I'm not necessarily convinced this is true. Equipment does not change the desire of one opponent to defeat the other, does it? I was gambling at onepocket once and winning. My opponent asked that we switch to a shimmed Diamond table. I said sure thing and beat him on that too. If he had wanted, I would have beat him playing tiddly winks as well...

 

[realkingcobra]

Your average Joe Banger would miss equally well on 5 inch pockets and on 4.25. Semi serious players will notice the difference, but bangers will not. Their game of 8ball will still last half an hour or so no matter what table they play on.

Tell that to Clark, owner of Malarkey's Pool & Brew in Tacoma, WA. When someone in the past came in and tightened up the pockets on 10 of the GC1's & 2's to 4" corner pockets...slowly the players started not showing up anymore, until it got down to the point of having almost no one playing on the Brunswicks, yet the customers playing on the 10 Valley 7ft bar tables...increased

When I came along, and corrected all the Brunswick's to perfect 4 1/2" corner pockets, and installed the correct cushions on the tables, the players that use to come there...slowly started to return....back to a waiting list to get on the tables again...so what does that say about bangers not knowing the difference in pocketing balls? I slowly, over a period of 4 months made the change back again on the 9fts, so I got to see the change in the customers...first hand, so there's no blowing smoke here....or just saying.

Glen

 

[poolplayer2093]

I love this table. I would love to PLAY on it, not watch a PRO TOURNAMENT match on it. To me, there is a distinction between being a player and being a viewer. If we want to increase the popularity of pool, more focus on the latter is needed.

a friend of mine gave me the 7/8 on pockets about that tight. there ain't nothing wrong with tight pockets. in fact playing on anything bigger than 4 1/2 isn't really playing pool.

big pockets are what people like to play on because it makes them feel like they play better than they do.

 

[TATE]

Are these too tight?? I think they are just right. Yes, it plays tough, but my game has impoved because of the tight pockets. Although its a tough table, i enjoy it much more that when I play on a 5" pocketed table. It forces me to concentrate and really focus.

Ha, I see Ernesto all over that pocket. I think the players here would be surprised to see how well the pros would play on this table. If you make the shot, it goes in and if you miss, it doesn't. Sadly, I can't say the same for standard GC pockets.

Chris

 

[poolplayer2093]

Ha, I see Ernesto all over that pocket. I think the players here would be surprised to see how well the pros would play on this table. If you make the shot, it goes in and if you miss, it doesn't. Sadly, I can't say the same for standard GC pockets.

Chris

yep. it's completely posable to play well on tight equipment. you just have to try harder.

 

[tom mcgonagle]

Before they tightened up the pockets, matches races to nine or eleven, were over in two three and four innings. This might be great for the spectators but for the players it wasn't that rewarding.

The players became to good for the equipment and they had to do something to keep it competative. One of the better choices they ever made was tightning up the pockets.

Just my thoughts.

_________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com

 

[book collector]

Are these too tight?? I think they are just right. Yes, it plays tough, but my game has impoved because of the tight pockets. Although its a tough table, i enjoy it much more that when I play on a 5" pocketed table. It forces me to concentrate and really focus.

If this is fun you ought to play on a 12 foot snooker table and run a water mister in the room all day long. Wheeeeee!

 

[TATE]

Before they tightened up the pockets, matches races to nine or eleven, were over in two three and four innings. This might be great for the spectators but for the players it wasn't that rewarding.

The players became too good for the equipment and they had to do something to keep it competative. One of the better choices they ever made was tightning up the pockets.

Just my thoughts.

_________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com

Exactly - I was watching a match between Rodney Morris and I think Mika on a tape - one of the international tournaments- the tables were buckets. They were putting 5 packs on each other without breaking a sweat. I won't even watch that stuff anymore - the balls rolling into the pocket even rail first.

Nobody wants that - the rolls become huge in that kind of environment.

Chris

 

[Mr441]

The biggest problem in pool is that the entry level is so low. You get teenagers who can give seasoned pros a hard time, and that SHOULD NEVER happen in any sport. It doesn't happen in other sports. There has to be some line drawn that separates the men from the boys.

But it does happen in other sports. Some examples I can think of off the top of my head:

Bob Feller was a major league pitching sensation when he debuted at 17 years of age.

Willie Hoppe won the world straight rail billiards championship at 18.

Mike Tyson had just turned 20 when he won the heavtweight title.

Not to mention all the top olympic gymnasts at 15-18 years of age.

Tennis also has many teenage champions.

 

[Philthepockets]

I think they need to be tight enough to un-level the playing field and raise the skill level but not so tight as to detract from the spirit of 9 ball.

Funny how the mindset differs among the snooker fans, if they feel the pockets on the tv table are just a little too forgiving they are screaming Buckets! and demand they be tightened up lol.

 

[cardiac kid]

Tell that to Clark, owner of Malarkey's Pool & Brew in Tacoma, WA. When someone in the past came in and tightened up the pockets on 10 of the GC1's & 2's to 4" corner pockets...slowly the players started not showing up anymore, until it got down to the point of having almost no one playing on the Brunswicks, yet the customers playing on the 10 Valley 7ft bar tables...increased

When I came along, and corrected all the Brunswick's to perfect 4 1/2" corner pockets, and installed the correct cushions on the tables, the players that use to come there...slowly started to return....back to a waiting list to get on the tables again...so what does that say about bangers not knowing the difference in pocketing balls? I slowly, over a period of 4 months made the change back again on the 9fts, so I got to see the change in the customers...first hand, so there's no blowing smoke here....or just saying.

Glen

Glen,

In reality, who are we discussing as the customer? I thrive on tight tables. In our room in Rochester, other than the infrequent visits of Dave Grau and Shane Winters, there are only three or four other PLAYERS. The rest of the people frequenting the room are casual users. Yes, there are other serious players in the room but they prefer the ten Valley bar boxes with bushel baskets for pockets. The room owner needs to cater to them. They pay the bills. For the most part the bar box guys (and gals) keep his beer and wine bar open. The manager runs weekly events for them. Both leagues and tournaments. Players like myself are excluded. I accept that fact as do the other players my speed.

Why then should the owner tighten up the eight GC III tables I spoke with you about. He had a local redo the tables last month. The guy did a good job. Not to your standards but nicely done. The tables play the pretty much the same. Still hear guys complain the pockets are too tough at nearly five inches. He also bought a new Diamond Pro/Am for the better players to use.

I think we as consumers have to decide what we want from our room owner. He needs to find out what his customers want from him. Wasting money to provide a product few people want doesn't do him any good. Just my two cents.

Lyn

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Lyn,
Excellent observation about the economics and culture of a pool hall and place of business.

Those customers that pay the bills, need to continue to have what they expect, to continue to hand over their entertainment dollars.

IMO 'tight pockets' are a special item on the menu that only a few patrons will order. (let alone appreciate)

Glen,

In reality, who are we discussing as the customer? I thrive on tight tables. In our room in Rochester, other than the infrequent visits of Dave Grau and Shane Winters, there are only three or four other PLAYERS. The rest of the people frequenting the room are casual users. Yes, there are other serious players in the room but they prefer the ten Valley bar boxes with bushel baskets for pockets. The room owner needs to cater to them. They pay the bills. For the most part the bar box guys (and gals) keep his beer and wine bar open. The manager runs weekly events for them. Both leagues and tournaments. Players like myself are excluded. I accept that fact as do the other players my speed.

Why then should the owner tighten up the eight GC III tables I spoke with you about. He had a local redo the tables last month. The guy did a good job. Not to your standards but nicely done. The tables play the pretty much the same. Still hear guys complain the pockets are too tough at nearly five inches. He also bought a new Diamond Pro/Am for the better players to use.

I think we as consumers have to decide what we want from our room owner. He needs to find out what his customers want from him. Wasting money to provide a product few people want doesn't do him any good. Just my two cents.

Lyn