Tight shafts

[rugerfan]

I recieved a cue recently that uses a radial pin. The cue was fitted with a LD OB1 shaft and also has the original shaft. The OB1 fits pretty snug on the pin where as the original shaft, does not "grab" the pin as tight when putting the cue together. The original shaft tends to hit better, in my opinion.

My question;

Can/does a tight threaded shaft have a bearing on the hit of the cue? Is there a way to "relax" the threading inside the shaft?

Both shafts/cue are straight when together or apart.

Thanks!

 

[center pocket]

the ob1 will loosen up a bit if its a wood to wood joint.

 

[rugerfan]

the ob1 will loosen up a bit if its a wood to wood joint.

It's a flat faced joint/radial pin. I take it, it's pretty commen for a OB1 to fit snug until it's broken in/used a bit?

The reason I asked, if the pin is really biting into a shaft, would the feel of the hit be transfered more to the pin vs the flat faced area of the joint? Would that in turn affect the hit?

Thanks!

 

[greyghost]

the tighter the shaft threads on the better the use of energy, of course you don't want it so tight it could cause damage tho. If its bothersome then just rub a little bit of bar soap on the pin and run it in and out the shaft a few times.

 

[RBC]

rugerfan

You can apply a little wax to the joint screw and then screw the shaft on and it will smooth out quite a bit. It doesn't get physically looser, but the friction between the wood and the screw reduces dramatically.

A paste floor wax is best.

Just ask Joey A how good it works. I built a couple of shafts for his Bender and they were pretty tight. Tight enough he was afraid to tighten them up all the way. He applied a little floor wax and now they are perfect. Snug, but go together easily.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[cycopath]

Ok, now that your question has been answered, what kind of Ruger's are you a fan of? I've got a couple of Rugers myself, I'm not a super fan my any stretch but they are excellent weapons. Mini-14, '72 model 10/22, 77/22, MKII Competition Target, M77 Compact 308.

 

[rugerfan]

Thanks for the tips. For some reason, I was thinking that if the pin holds the shaft tightly, the hit "feel" would be different vs a joint the delivered the feedback across the face of the joint. May be overthinking it a bit but didn't know if it could have a bearing on hit feedback.

Ruger's, yea I have a few. I would have to put Ruger's #1 on the top of my list. Give me a #1 topped with a Zeiss Diavari...don't get much better.

Regards!

 

[cycopath]

Those No.1's have gotten pricey over the last few years. They are nice though. Drop blocks are just sexy to me. I've pawned a few, but never owned one.

 

[junkbond]

While we have Royce here: what radial tap does OB use? Uni-loc? Madison? Something else?

 

[RBC]

Junkbond,

I am not sure that I understand your question.

"Radial" is a trademarked name that is owned by the UniLoc corporation. The joint screw was not unique enough for a patent to be granted, so they settled for the trademark.

Having said that, there are a number of similar style of screws that look virtually identical to the untrained eye. While they look the same, and work the same, most of them are actually a different thread pitch and therefore use a different tap.

The OB Shafts that are designed to fit the "Radial" pin are tapped with a tap made from Atlas Billiards supply. I believe it comes from the UniLoc corporation, but I don't know that for a fact. These will fit all cues using the "Radial" pin. You will find this pin in many american made cues as well as those made in one plant in China. That plant make several brands of cues like the Predator cues, Lucasi, Players and some others. I think the Fury RP series cues are made there as well, but I am not sure.

OB shafts that are designed for what we call the Import Radial use a different tap whom I don't know the maker of. These pins can be found in most of the other import cues with a radial type joint pin. The funny thing about this joint is that they can't really call it "Radial" without risking a lawsuit.

I hope that helps!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[junkbond]

Royce,

Thanks for the response. My reason for asking is that a number of American cue makers use a "radial" pin from Madison, which has a minor diameter that is larger than the UniLoc pin. While the UniLoc pin will fit okay in a shaft which has been tapped for the Madison, screwing a UniLoc-tapped shaft onto a Madison pin will compress the threads in the shaft, causing a loose fit when it's put back on a UniLoc pin (a little water will fix this). If the shaft is only to be used on a Madison pin, however, there is no problem except that it is quite tight initially.

I don't want to give the impression that I think there is anything wrong with the Madison pin or the cue makers who use them. I like big pins and the Madison is a good one. I just prefer the tighter fit of the UniLoc.

It's possible thet the OP has a Madison pin in his cue, which would explain why the OB shaft, tapped for a UniLoc, will fit tighter than the original shaft.

Howard

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

CHAP STICK

JUST APPLY IT TO THE PIN, IT STOPS SQUEAKING, AND HELPS IT GO ON EASIER.

Marcus

 

[Shaft]

I am not a cuemaker or even a good player, but I am an engineer. If you don't mind an engineer thing out loud for a second, I will offer this.

The role of the threaded pin (no matter what style, size, or thread count) is to snug the shaft against the butt tightly to simulate a single piece of wood.
The pin will be in tension and the wood at the mating faces of the joint will be in compression.
Once that happens, the pin is pretty much out of the equation. For the usual stroke (other than a power break) the pin does not bear any of the impact force; the faces of the joint do.
"Feel" will be transfered from the shaft to the butt through the mating faces of the joint. .

I suppose ridiculously extreme differences pin diameter could make a difference, but most pins are similar enought in size and tensile dtrength.

 

[RBC]

Royce,

Thanks for the response. My reason for asking is that a number of American cue makers use a "radial" pin from Madison, which has a minor diameter that is larger than the UniLoc pin. While the UniLoc pin will fit okay in a shaft which has been tapped for the Madison, screwing a UniLoc-tapped shaft onto a Madison pin will compress the threads in the shaft, causing a loose fit when it's put back on a UniLoc pin (a little water will fix this). If the shaft is only to be used on a Madison pin, however, there is no problem except that it is quite tight initially.

I don't want to give the impression that I think there is anything wrong with the Madison pin or the cue makers who use them. I like big pins and the Madison is a good one. I just prefer the tighter fit of the UniLoc.

It's possible thet the OP has a Madison pin in his cue, which would explain why the OB shaft, tapped for a UniLoc, will fit tighter than the original shaft.

Howard

Howard,

I have to say, I am not familiar with the Madison pin. Who is the supplier? What cuemakers use them? I would like to know for sure.

I will say this, if Madison or the cue makers that use this pin is calling it a "Radial", then they are in violation of UniLoc's trademark!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[junkbond]

Wow, this is going somewhere unintended.

Royce,
Note my use of the quote marks around the word "radial" and the fact that I always referred to the non-UniLoc pin as a "Madison. " I have never seen a cue maker advertise any pin other than the UniLoc as a Radial©. The cues I have bought from cue makers which specified a Radial© pin came with UniLoc pins. The cues I have with the Madison pin were purchased from private parties, not from cue makers. The private parties described the pins as radial, but that is not a violation of copyright law.

FYI, here is a picture of the two pins. The top one is the UniLoc and the bottom is the Madison.

 

[LWW]

Ok, now that your question has been answered, what kind of Ruger's are you a fan of? I've got a couple of Rugers myself, I'm not a super fan my any stretch but they are excellent weapons. Mini-14, '72 model 10/22, 77/22, MKII Competition Target, M77 Compact 308.

MkII Targets rock.

Have a Ruger Mark III Competition Volquartsen.

LWW

 

[cycopath]

Volquartsen, wow. Those are super nice. I looked at the Volquartsen 10/22's years ago, good stuff.

 

[JE54]

Bar soap & chap stick, good suggestions.....