Tim Scruggs box cue

Yup

Worminator said:
You are saying the cue's value is less than $2,500 just because of the pin?????
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I had shafts inserted by Mike Web.
Mike was repining in 2000 with 3/8-10 and would make new shafts for them as I had 1.
Most Scruggs buyers not people that looks at pictures will not buy a cue with that pin. Has something to do with what I call pool stick algebra and I don't have a decoder ring so I can't elaborate.
I personally love the way that pin feels on the ball. Phenolic is the way to go.
Mike repined my purple heart box Cue radial Ivory.
One of my buddy's had to have it. The buddy pool stick blues.
But then again some people might pay extra for an acme pin.
Good luck with one pretty Cue. Black and red might be Tim's favorite combo.
Pretty!





Nick ;)
 
shadowmoss said:
You asked what the values is. That all depends on if your buying or selling. And there is nothing wrong with that pin. When Tim was using that pin he got in a batch of shafts at that time that ran a little soft (I would guess someone sold him red maple instead of sugar maple) and if you weren't careful you "could" cross thread it. NOT TO SAY THAT ALL THE SHAFTS WITH THAT PIN ARE A LITTLE SOFTER. There were a few before they figure out what was happening. But to be on the safe side they stopped using that pin. I have a few TS cues with that pin and have no trouble with them and see no reason to change the pin.

We all have our own opinions.
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What do you know about TS cues anyway:)
 
Mike Webb

Mike Webb is his answer.
The poster asked and I answered . He can make a new shaft or insert old shafts. But you will need a mandrel sooner or later.
Good advise? As I read I see little advise and answers to a need for new shafts and repair work.
As I read it this has been the good only advise.
Really guys all he wanted was an answer.
None of you seem educated in how to resolve this issue excepting Eric. But advise on everything else you have.
Hay I have a flat. Buy a tire. No one makes it any more. Plug it. Who can do that?
Holy cow!
Another box of chocolates.
You are a helpful bunch.
Nick
 
anyone that has the acme tap for this pin can make the shaft. call Rick phillippi i can send him a 13mm raw shaft with the scruggs taper ready to go.:p:cool:
 
Nick -

The OP never said his shafts were stripped... He merely asked who to go to for ADDITIONAL shafts. Can't fault your *advice* in suggesting Mike Webb for additional shafts.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ACME pins. Dave Kikel also used them in some of his cues and I have never heard of any issues with shafts stripping out. As Eric and Tony have explained, the issue was with the shaft wood that was used for a period of time in the Scruggs shop, not with the pin.

With all that said, I would personally value the cue at $3,800. But that is just my humble opinion.
 
A little bit of Acme pin love, plus a couple pictures. Although same joint collar design, two different cues. First is from 1998, second is from 2000. A little history, TS cues with the Acme joint started in the Mike Cochran era, not Bob Frey. If mine in 1998 wasn't the first, it was pretty close to the first. Nothing wrong with them, either. It may have helped that Tim and Mike knew I liked the harder more dense shafts. They are smooth and firm connecting, more so than most 3/8 or radial joint cues I have, for what it's worth.
 

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Thank you all for the great information.

To clear up a previous point, the shafts are still very functional and the threads are not stripped. I was just curious where people are having their Scruggs replacement shafts made.

I'm glad to learn more about the ACME pin. These shafts take much more effort to screw on and off than anything else I have experienced and even make high-pitched noises during the process. Is that common?

Also, the cue came with ivory joint protectors and those pins are different than the ACME and they screw on relatively loose until the very last turn. Any thoughts on that?
 

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luckylager said:
Thank you all for the great information.

To clear up a previous point, the shafts are still very functional and the threads are not stripped. I was just curious where people are having their Scruggs replacement shafts made.

I'm glad to learn more about the ACME pin. These shafts take much more effort to screw on and off than anything else I have experienced and even make high-pitched noises during the process. Is that common?

Also, the cue came with ivory joint protectors and those pins are different than the ACME and they screw on relatively loose until the very last turn. Any thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

Yes, the Acme pin can be pretty firm to take on and off, and as you've noted, can squeak at times. Like a lot of flat faced shafts with no insert, it can also change depending on the season. Tim's advice to ease it if absolutely necessary was to just barely touch the pin with a dry bar of soap. You should be good to go for quite awhile with that.
 
luckylager said:
Can you please describe the Scruggs taper? Was it completely unique to his cues?
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from what i was told this long 13 1/2 " pro taper was designed for the player that didn't have a good stroke. it's a unique cnc document for the taper, i've been using it occasionally on my cues upon request customers love it.
Good luck hope this helps.
 
Sorry for bringing up some drama in your thread. The Acme pin makes a wonderful joint IMO. It is by far the tightest fitting joint I have compared to all of my cues (Scruggs or non-Scruggs) Never heard it make any high pitched noises though. As i stated before, if the threads aren't stripped now, they likely will not.

I also use 3/8 10 JP's like you show for the shaft, they are loose going on, but do the job. The problem is a 3/8 10 protector for the joint pin itself will never work.

As I said I think it is a wonderful old original cue, and if it was mine I would keep it that way.

I think the Sly/Phillipi combo is a great choice for another shaft. Leon has the CNC shaft programs that Tim used.




QUOTE=luckylager;5111030]Thank you all for the great information.

To clear up a previous point, the shafts are still very functional and the threads are not stripped. I was just curious where people are having their Scruggs replacement shafts made.

I'm glad to learn more about the ACME pin. These shafts take much more effort to screw on and off than anything else I have experienced and even make high-pitched noises during the process. Is that common?

Also, the cue came with ivory joint protectors and those pins are different than the ACME and they screw on relatively loose until the very last turn. Any thoughts on that?[/QUOTE]
 
LOL that is how Mike described it to me once, and it wasn't the standard taper for a lot of years they were in operation.

:)


leon sly said:
from what i was told this long 13 1/2 " pro taper was designed for the player that didn't have a good stroke. it's a unique cnc document for the taper, i've been using it occasionally on my cues upon request customers love it.
Good luck hope this helps.
Click to expand...
 
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The problem of tips

The more we thought about it worn out tips probably got most the shafts but a few were cross threaded.
Mandrels allow for retipping with no chance of thread damage. Willards also avoids threads.
Tim used a straight 8 inch tapper for years. It was actually a 9 inch tapper but the shafts were built 30 inches long. The last inch was cut off.
Mike Webb has every tap on the planet for shaft work including this one that has two steps to do properly. He was a great friend to Tim and Mike especially and his knowledge of the way TS built Cues were constructed is second to none doing repair work at this time excepting Bob Frey.
And I loved my acme pin TS. Red Rocket placed 4th in the US open a few years back. Put the eventual winner in the loosers bracket.
Split with him I hear.
Tortured Rocket with it.
Nick :)
 
I did

Worminator said:
Nick -

The OP never said his shafts were stripped... He merely asked who to go to for ADDITIONAL shafts. Can't fault your *advice* in suggesting Mike Webb for additional shafts.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ACME pins. Dave Kikel also used them in some of his cues and I have never heard of any issues with shafts stripping out. As Eric and Tony have explained, the issue was with the shaft wood that was used for a period of time in the Scruggs shop, not with the pin.

With all that said, I would personally value the cue at $3,800. But that is just my humble opinion.
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He might choose to tell you about his experiences and he might not. The joint caused him grief also.
He also abandoned this joint pin.
A machinist buddy pointed out to me there is nothing there the threads are too fat. Mainly it's because little wood is left after the threads were cut. Less structure where it is needed most. The pin's threads are thicker than the woods straight line milled threads.
I said you can just see that. He said well anyone can see that. What space is left for the wood? They have nothing to them. There is almost nothing there.
He was dead on.
While they last they are supreme.
Nick :)
 
If you repin it you need to have your head examined. That would destroy its value. New shafts are one thing. New pin is something else. The only way I would repin it is if it was done by the Scruggs shop. Since Mike is deceased and Tim is retired, that answers that. Not a fan of box cues but nice cue.

I had a nice bridge veneer TS that was very solid that had that pin. No issues whatsoever.
 
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I played a few racks with Mike's personal cue. It was 57 in. with 3/8 acme pin. It played really nice and the shafts went on and off snugly but perfectly. Mike and Tim were two great cue makers and are sorely missed. I hope to say hello to Tim, Cory and Eric at SBE this year.
Bob
 
When you put it up for sale in an Auction you will find the real value. I would start the bid at what you originally paid for it $2500 and see where it goes. Someone valued it at $3800, but would they pay that for it?
 
My box Cue was a treat to hit.

Tikkler loves his. I miss mine. I buy these things. I like Ho's too.
If you haven't played with a Scruggs Box Cue they are a blast. Usually smaller in the handle. Very lively. Rock solid.
If I didn't own a couple sweet hitting TS Cues and Cochran's I would be interested.
Mine was sold for double what yours would bring. It was the only Ivory Joint Radial Pin TS Box Cue that I ever saw.
By the way it was already repinned 3/8-10. Mike looked at it and decided that was that and suprised me big time.
Box Cue prices that I have collected and sold to buy other TS Cues.
Acme Ivory $2500
3/8-10 Ivory $3200
Radial pin Ivory 5K for sure.
Ivory Inlays insted of rings add at least 3K.
How do I know? History.
Mike Webb was Tim and Mike's go to man when they needed help keeping up with repair work as custom build orders sometimes were overwhelming. So as out of my mind I look to posters here I am giving advise to services no longer offered by Tim and Michael on how at times they found Mike Webb's talent very helpful.






Nick :)
 
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