Tip Softness/Effect on Draw

[MitchAlsup]

A loose grip helps alot with draw.

Yes, and no

Yes, a lose wrist allows the player to deliver a cue to a specific point on CB allowing the shaft to do the work
However::
One could hold onto the butt with a extremely tight grip and if the cue tip hits the CB at the same speed and position as above, the grip does not mater because the physics of impact transpire faster than the speed of sound travels down the shaft to where you are gripping. So how the cue is gripped is absolutely immaterial.

 

[sparkle84]

It is in your mind. You are feeling less comfortable with knowing the tip is different, and are cueing closer to center than you think you are. Pay careful attention and you will see this is true.

Send him one of your new balls and then he'll know for sure.

 

[sparkle84]

Here, anecdotally, is my effort to narrow the variables and test this.

I took two identical $100 production cues --can't remember the brand. On one I put softest tip I had (Kamui super soft) and on the other a hard tip--tinkier sound. I shaped them the same, and a player couldn't tell which cue he had on each shot until hearing the sound.

I then set up a slightly off angle backcut along longrail into corner pocket of 6X12 snooker table. Objective was to make shot and have cueball hit opposite long rail as far back as possible.

I then had a good player (725 or so rating) try about 30 times for maximum draw. Each time I handed him a cue randomly switching between the soft and hard-tip cues.

There was no difference of note. My conclusion is while people can argue all they want for reasons there might be a difference--and certainly there CAN be, any difference is at best small. I'd advise against changing from a hardness whose feedback you otherwise like in an effort to get more spin.

You shouldn't post something like this.
Saying different tips don't affect the amount of English you can apply to the cb.
Do you work for a tip company?

 

[maha]

if he works for a cue tip company he probably works for one that doesnt sell 25 dollar pieces of leather glued together.

 

[luckyleon]

I play at the senior center in my small. We have several pretty good players here. One of them didn't have his cue one day and he played with my break/jump stick which has a phenolic tip. That day he was able to power draw the cue ball all over the 9 foot table. Since that day I decided it didn't matter what tip I had, my lack of a stroke was to blame for very little draw prowess!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

A tried and true way to test your draw stroke is to use a striped ball as your "cue ball" with the stripe horizontal (and tilted slightly to match the cue's natural elevation), then try to hit right on the bottom of the stripe (it's located at the miscue limit) and check the chalk mark afterward to be sure you're comparing apples to apples. Looking at the tip/CB contact point on the shot stroke might help.

pj
chgo

 

[luckyleon]

Yes,I have tried using the stripe to check where I'm hitting and it seems to me I have a mental block concerning this 'problem".

 

[luckyleon]

I might add that i am an average player in my rural area with no Fargo rating.

 

[straightline]

How so?

pj
chgo

I'll tell you how that works for me.
Current stick is an (Action) Elite. It comes out under 18 oz with factory segmented bolts. Plays fine - doesn't hit real strong on its own.
Long draw shots require more cue speed than a pendulum stroke can deliver so I incorporate more upper arm with elbow drop. The loose grip attenuates the skew I'd get with my normal grip.
It works out that my best attempts involve spearing the cue ball with the stick in free flight but for my pinky curled around it.

A stick weighted in the 19s would deliver a more productive impact with a normal (er) grip.
A stick weighted in the 20s would be too heavy to stroke effectively.

It's possible I could learn to stroke a 20, 21 with enough speed but I haven't got around to that.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Yes,I have tried using the stripe to check where I'm hitting and it seems to me I have a mental block concerning this 'problem".

Lots of players have the same problem. A good instructor may or may not be able to help. I've seen lots of players who have never been able to draw the ball well because their fundamentals have been broken since the first time they played thirty years ago. Sometimes there is a quick fix and sometimes it's just not going to happen -- thirty years of bad grooving.

 

[garczar]

You shouldn't post something like this.
Saying different tips don't affect the amount of English you can apply to the cb.
Do you work for a tip company?

Its because they don't.

 

[Zerksies]

Yes, and no

Yes, a lose wrist allows the player to deliver a cue to a specific point on CB allowing the shaft to do the work
However::
One could hold onto the butt with a extremely tight grip and if the cue tip hits the CB at the same speed and position as above, the grip does not mater because the physics of impact transpire faster than the speed of sound travels down the shaft to where you are gripping. So how the cue is gripped is absolutely immaterial.

I highly disagree with that statement. Countly less books and video documented on a loose grip.

 

[garczar]

I highly disagree with that statement. Countly less books and video documented on a loose grip.

A light grip generally leads to a purer stroke but its not the reason a ball backs up. You can draw the cb just as well with a tight grip. A lot of 3c players use tight grips and they spin the living shit out of the cb. As long you are creating tip speed at impact grip tightness means nada.

 

[Island Drive]

I have pretty much always played with a medium tip and recently switched to a Kamui soft tip, but I also switched cues. I do not seem to be getting anywhere near as much draw as I am used to. Opinion on whether this is due to the tip or possibly more to do the the cue? I made no change to my stroke. I went from a cuetec Avid cue to a Lucasi Hybrid. TIA

Soft tips need more maintenance if your swing has allot of power.
if your a bunter/ball roller and only have the ability to draw a few feet soft works fine.

Harder tips need less maintenance when trimmed out, especially layered tips.
Simply put.
If your a player that can draw the cue ball 6-10 feet, your allot more prone to Want/Have a harder tip, because more speed/power will deform a soft tip quickly.
If you look at what the top snooker players use as another example.
The balls are allot lighter and allow the players to use a softer tip.
But how often do you see a snooker player draw a ball straight back 10'.... Never????

 

[Colonel]

I can draw 1½ table lengths with a hard tip.

{{Heck, I use a jump cue with phenolic tip as a short cue at the local bar and I can draw with that cue, too.}}

Exactly, it’s about a persons stroke, not the tip.

 

[Island Drive]

Exactly, it’s about a persons stroke, not the tip.

True, but soft tips will need more maintenance, and with CF shafts (and a Big Powerful Swing) they will break down allot quicker than layered.
I grew up on LaPros, but when I stiffened up my cue, the tip would become pulverized when only half way worn out.
Never saw that coming.
That never happened in all my yrs of play, till I made my cue ALLOT stiffer.
bm

 

[maha]

rarely will i ever even want to draw the cueball 6 feet or more.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I highly disagree with that statement. Countly less books and video documented on a loose grip.

A loose grip makes it easier to deliver the cue-tip to where you want it on the CB.
But if you deliver the tip to that point on the CB, the strength of the grip is immaterial.

Those countless books and videos are about a "player" delivering the cue-tip to where you want it on the CB;
not about the "physics that transpires" when the cue-tip impacts the CB with that speed and offset.

 

[Knels]

Clean the cue joint, threads then give it a try. Some brand new cues even need this sometimes

 

[luckyleon]

On the other hand I am 74 years old and when I was 25 to 30 I could actually draw the cue ball table length and farther if I was within 3 feet of the object ball. Now 5 or 6 feet is the norm. If I am much further 1 or possibly 2 feet is about it.