Tips for this shot.

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is your answer. Do not aim that to hit the center of the pocket! Aim it just like he said above...the pocket facing of the short rail. If you do that it goes in. If you hit it slightly thick it still goes. If you aim for the back of the pocket the long rail is in the way.

I have been meaning to do the following, and reading this thread is motivating me to do it. Place a video camera on a tripod so that you can record a nice video of the OB coming down along the long rail. Note, for each of 100 shots whether the OB is hitting the long rail, and where on the long rail it is landing. Likewise, note how many times the OB hits the facing on the short rail, and how many times it hits the point on the short rail. Do this with the OB and the CB in slightly different places each time, with slightly greater and lesser angles (but with all of the shots being essentially the shot portrayed by the OP). Repeat with the CB at a still slightly greater angle, and then at a slightly lesser angle. Etc. Don’t allow yourself to “groove” any given shot. The idea is to generate data reflecting how your brain is working before getting recalibrated through dedicated practice using donuts, etc. This will allow you to see exactly what your proclivity is, e.g., to know whether your most common outcome is to hit the long rail between one and two diamonds from the corner pocket, or at some other point. The value of this recording is that it reveals what is somewhat difficult to see in real time (exact landing spot) unless you are not staying down on this long, down the rail shot. It also allows you to measure success based on where the CB is landing, and not on whether it goes in the pocket. Simply calculating one’s make percentage is not a particularly valuable exercise. Say you make 8 out of 10. Great, but wouldn’t you rather know that 6 of the 8 hit the long rail between half a diamond and one plus diamonds away from the pocket and only went in because you used pocket speed?
 

Pangit

Banned
 

grindz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But how do you miss it? Are you catching the side rail early, or the end rail...or both?

I'd think you have an aiming error; what you think is going to happen is different that what actually happens.

For me, it is usually a cling issue, forcing the on to the side rail early...so I will aim that one at the end rail's pocket facing.

To the OP..... you have a LOT of great advice here from everyone!

If aiming isn’t the issue (which it has to be ultimately, because you have to aim correctly to compensate for ALL factors), or stroke inconsistency, then perhaps you aren’t ‘seeing’ all of the variables in your minds eye either consciously or unconsciously. As BB says here cling is a factor...speed of shot and purity of stroke both can effect that, as well as quality, condition and cleanliness of the balls, cloth etc. Sometimes cloth ‘indexing’ can be an issue with certain cloth, which can take a slower shot offline.

All factors need to be considered on the practice table, so that you don’t have to think about them under the gun. Many can be mitigated to negligable depending on how you choose to offset them... ie; speed, English, etc.

I used to practice versions of that shot on a snooker table, and am a big fan of the method mentioned of making an easier version of the shot, and progressing to more difficult. JMHO

Good luck.

Td
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to practice versions of that shot on a snooker table, and am a big fan of the method mentioned of making an easier version of the shot, and progressing to more difficult.

Yes, this is a good way to go at it, but again, it is critical to pay attention to how the OB is going into the pocket. Is it going in cleanly, or is it brushing the rail? The goal should be to make 10 in a row WITHOUT touching the rail. Emblazon into your memory bank the ghost ball position (or other image) that results in clean entry of the OB when playing the shot from the initial (shortest) length before moving to the next (longer) length shot. It sometimes amazes me how thin the hit must be, for a very short, soft shot down a rail, to pocket the OB without any rail contact.
 

grindz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, this is a good way to go at it, but again, it is critical to pay attention to how the OB is going into the pocket. Is it going in cleanly, or is it brushing the rail? The goal should be to make 10 in a row WITHOUT touching the rail. Emblazon into your memory bank the ghost ball position (or other image) that results in clean entry of the OB when playing the shot from the initial (shortest) length before moving to the next (longer) length shot. It sometimes amazes me how thin the hit must be, for a very short, soft shot down a rail, to pocket the OB without any rail contact.

Right you are.... I was trying to endorse your original post.

There is no slop on a snooker table though, so that issue is moot. Either way, your method is one that I have used, and have seen taught by the best teachers out there in various forms.... I like it!

Td
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
it doesnt matter how you hit it if your pockets will take the ball.

what you need to do is keep track of whether you under or overcut it most times you miss.

then adjust as you are missing because on thin cuts it is easy to not see the aim point.
 

Black-Balled

He Rides the Skies
Silver Member
Tip for this shot:
Bulletproof tips. I just jumped a cow while I was taking a nap with my bulletproof tips
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
map the shot then work from there.

A lot of people have already said the same things coming in this post but another way of looking at things might help.

First, we all agree this isn't the easiest shot on the table. So first thing, put the cue ball where the object ball is. Fire it into the long rail on the way down until you find out how much of the long rail you can hit and the ball still fall at moderate to firm speed on your table. Mark that spot just for reference. OK, still using your cue ball on the object ball spot, how far out on that inner rail can you hit and the ball still fall? Mark where the outside of the cue ball lines up. Put your cue ball back on that object ball spot one more time. Now look at things from the other side of the pocket. When you look at halfway between the two marks from behind the pocket you are normally shooting at, that is the center of your pocketable area.

Odds are that one, the width of acceptable ball placement in the pocket is wider than you thought, and two, the center of that placement isn't where you thought it was! From now on, forget what you see on these shots, your eyes are lying to you about where you need to place the object ball when you address these shots. Remember where the center of ball placement really is, or just find the spot visually again. After finding the spot awhile using trial and error your eyes get "educated". I backcut balls in the sides better than most using a similar method.

There is often a quick cheat in the heat of battle. Stand behind the object ball line to the pocket and use the long rail as a crutch. Now just fire the object ball parallel to the rail and watch it find the hole. Don't even think about that hole way down yonder, it hasn't moved since last time you shot at it!

Since you have your own table it is easy to grab the whole rack of balls and shoot this shot fifteen times each time you start hitting balls. Soon pocketing it will be so routine that you are focusing on other things fully expecting the balls to fall. Final thing, practice all four corners which will naturally have you cutting both ways. Before long this will be your bank shot, as in "money in tha".

Hu
 

Luxury

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of all the advice to ignore I would suggest ignoring using inside English on the shot even if it’s just a touch of inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You need to see exactly where you are hitting the pocket and if the issue is the facings or the actual aim. I have seem videos where it was said to aim those a bit thinner to compensate for collision induced throw that will push the object ball closer to the rail.

I have been struggling with this shot lately. Just can't seem to make it consistently. Anybody got any tips? Hit it firm, or pocket speed? Touch of inside? Seems like I have tried it every way, and other that just shooting it another thousand times, I would appreciate any tips or words of wisdom. Do you have a particular aim point? I know it is not a half ball hit. Just seems I rattle this shot out about 30% of the time...cost me a match last night.

[IMG]https://forums.azbilliards.com/picture.php?albumid=2396&pictureid=19689[/IMG]
 

8ballsNquarters

Registered
i haven't seen anyone mention collision induced throw yet. It's most observed at 30 degrees i think and, while your shot looks to be a little less, it could still be playing a role. if you're consistently missing a shot a certain way and you're confident your stroke and sighting is correct. this could be the culprit.
 

ljsuperdave

Registered
This shot is kinda tricky since it's a shot to the corner from close to the rail. I really have lots of trouble trying to get any kind of cue ball control for this shot.

What makes it difficult in my opinion is that the corner pocket is very small from that angle and you cannot shoot this one hard. You have to hit the far facing of the pocket and drop it in. Too fast and you might rattle the pocket.

If I were shooting this shot I would aim the ball parallel to the rail and then put a hair of inside (right in the case) on the cue. And remember not to shoot it too hard.

I'm not a very good player so you might just want to ignore all of this and just keep experimenting with whatever you find that works for you.
 

Black-Balled

He Rides the Skies
Silver Member
i haven't seen anyone mention collision induced throw yet. It's most observed at 30 degrees i think and, while your shot looks to be a little less, it could still be playing a role. if you're consistently missing a shot a certain way and you're confident your stroke and sighting is correct. this could be the culprit.

The phenomenon was addressed multiple times...on each page, by my quick review.
 

tim913

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is it being close to the rail that affects your shot, the point of the side pocket looming large, past pocket rattles, distance to pocket? Don't know for sure? Then start the process of elimination.

Keep both balls in their relative position to each other and move them both away from the rail .. making the shot more often now? Move back towards rail.

Keeping their position move both balls closer to target pocket and walk them back to original position about a half diamond at a time .. finding out it's a distance problem?
Practice! Practice!

Rattling the pocket could just be a speed problem .. if you don't have to move whitey anywhere in particular then just slow it down a little

I think it's just a focus problem maybe your mind's too busy .. gotta think about rail, side pocket, past failures.. etc. Eliminate the distractions .........

Put both balls in their original position, now take a piece of cloth or similar material about the size of a handkerchief and hang it behind the OB about 6 - 8 inches with the bottom of the cloth just touching the table or a hair above it. You want the object ball to pass under the cloth. When you get down to shoot the shot you will see CB, OB, and then cloth. You will not be distracted by the rail, pocket, distance .. etc. Focus on contact point of OB ONLY and start making the shot over and over and over building confidence. Can't see where the object ball is going? .. GOOD! I set shots up all the time with the cloth .. don't need to see the pockets, they're always in the same place :) . When you practice don't peek over the cloth to see where the ball is going, just stay down till you here it go in the hole. This will help your overall focus on all shots. Good Luck!
 

ANTJR122

Registered
I think Bob Jewett is correct in that a stunned cue ball at impact with the object ball will impart the maximum amount of cut induced throw to the object ball and force it toward the side (long) rail/cushion. I tend to use a moderate amount of running (left in this case) english on most cut shots, including this one and a moderate speed at most for this shot, to counteract the cut induced throw, unless position requires a different speed, english, etc. If the 8 ball (or 9 ball in 9 ball) is the target then unless a scratch is possible, no adjustment for position is needed. Also, beware- on most tables if you use too much speed and the object ball hits the side rail the ball may rattle out (particularly on my home table- Diamond Professional with tight pockets). Brand new cloth will widen the margin of error on the side rail but still safer to avoid it if possible and let the object ball hit the pocket face directly with either pocket speed or slightly more speed than that.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I feel my stroke is pretty consistent. I worked with Scott Lee earlier this year and I am very diligent about my mother drills practice...of course I could be wrong. But based on my SPF feedback , I feel I am pretty consistent.

It seems to be more an issue of pace and contact point...Thanks for the advice.

I have problems with these shots too. Froze on the rail and further away from the rail is no problem, just when object ball is like a 1/2" or less from the rail. To me it seems like a sighting problem is the reason I miss these. It seems like the rail being so close changes the picture you see when aiming.
 

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can line up like you are shooting it straight to the center of the pocket then put a little inside on it using backhand English or hit it using just center top but aim just inside the point on the right side
 
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