Tips On Getting Rid Of The Chicken Wing?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
Johnny .....the chicken wing doesn't make you miss balls.
I've always called it the 'flying elbow'.
Ray Reardon won 6 world snooker titles in the 70's with it.
Gary 'the bushwhacker' Nowlan was a feared money player using it.
It's no worse than the side-arm method which produced many great players.
If you're missing long shots you should worry about delivering the cue
straight..it doesn't matter what your body does to do it.
A straight stroke makes balls, not a straight elbow.
imo..of course
Elbow not close to body. It can make your Q-tip go off to the left for a right hand player. Johnnyt
Overhook or Underhook, all the same type of problem, right?
Johnnyt,
IMHO, holding the arm at any angle other than what is desired or needed is usually a factor of some other body part's alignment interfering with the stroking arm. I'd say identify the obstructing body part (hips, shoulder belly, breast - w/e ...) and check how your feet have to be in order to acheive the un-hindered stroke arm and likely gravity will hold your arm aligned, but make sure that your eyes and head follow the routine, too.
If it feels unnatural and is not effective then it's clearly wrong, but if it feels unnatural and is more effective, I'd guess that eventually it will feel natural given an investment of time and effort.
-Ivan
Johnnyt,
IMHO, holding the arm at any angle other than what is desired or needed is usually a factor of some other body part's alignment interfering with the stroking arm. I'd say identify the obstructing body part (hips, shoulder belly, breast - w/e ...) and check how your feet have to be in order to acheive the un-hindered stroke arm and likely gravity will hold your arm aligned, but make sure that your eyes and head follow the routine, too.
If it feels unnatural and is not effective then it's clearly wrong, but if it feels unnatural and is more effective, I'd guess that eventually it will feel natural given an investment of time and effort.
-Ivan
Famous Chicken Wing
is produced by holding your cue too far up on the butt, in other words your grip forearm is not perpendicular to the floor. People that grip the cue too far forward do so because they feel it is 'safer', but also have a tendency to push the cueball instead of stroking it through. It does through off some shots.
is produced by holding your cue too far up on the butt, in other words your grip forearm is not perpendicular to the floor. People that grip the cue too far forward do so because they feel it is 'safer', but also have a tendency to push the cueball instead of stroking it through. It does through off some shots.
I’m not so sure if the chicken wing is a problem but one way to minimize it is to rotate body clockwise and to move the bridge hand more to the right.
This should help with the motion and the right to left shooting that you mentioned which I’m so painfully familiar with.
Also the position of the grip hand affects the amount of wing.
Thumb pointing towards the body more wing, thumb out and elbow goes towards the body.
This should help with the motion and the right to left shooting that you mentioned which I’m so painfully familiar with.
Also the position of the grip hand affects the amount of wing.
Thumb pointing towards the body more wing, thumb out and elbow goes towards the body.
Thank you. I believe that was part of it. The other was I needed to turn my right hip back more. I should have just changed one thing at a time...I know better. But the main thing is that the chicken wing is gone and I seem to be making the long straight in shots at a higher percentage. Johnnyt
What's odd, Johnny, is the relationship of body parts to meat and produce.
Pool players and golfers have chicken wings, boxers have cauliflower ears, and my second wife could eat an apple through a picket fence.
I find shit like this fascinating.
Pool players and golfers have chicken wings, boxers have cauliflower ears, and my second wife could eat an apple through a picket fence.
I find shit like this fascinating.
In a perfect world, your shoulder joint, elbow, forearm and wrist would fall in line with your right foot (assuming a right handed player). That is what I would call your stroking plane. And it is a worthwhile ideal to work toward.
That said, there are probably more great players who don't do that than do. Recently, someone posted a challenge of the idea of a perfect plane, citing many instances where the upper arm was at significant angle to the "proper" shooting plane. I've been thinking a lot about that post and considering the number of great players--Mosconi, Efren, Bustamante, Alex and Mika, to name a few--who's upper arm tracks inside the plane line. The reason I found that thread so interesting is I discovered I delivered the cue straighter (to my dismay), when I was off plane like the players I mentioned.
In any case, I think the key to a good stroke is posture, not arm position. Good posture will put the arm in a workable position. In this respect, having the rear foot on the shot line, feet angled 45 degrees and shoulders rotated enough to give the arm freedom to swing, are the keys. I believe, if you get yourself into that position, your elbow will find where it needs to be to deliver the cue straight.
Of course, making these changes is hit and miss (literally) if you are doing it alone. Not that you can't, but it's hard to see yourself. Video would help a lot. But, better still, a qualified teacher would probably be a worthwhile investment.
That said, there are probably more great players who don't do that than do. Recently, someone posted a challenge of the idea of a perfect plane, citing many instances where the upper arm was at significant angle to the "proper" shooting plane. I've been thinking a lot about that post and considering the number of great players--Mosconi, Efren, Bustamante, Alex and Mika, to name a few--who's upper arm tracks inside the plane line. The reason I found that thread so interesting is I discovered I delivered the cue straighter (to my dismay), when I was off plane like the players I mentioned.
In any case, I think the key to a good stroke is posture, not arm position. Good posture will put the arm in a workable position. In this respect, having the rear foot on the shot line, feet angled 45 degrees and shoulders rotated enough to give the arm freedom to swing, are the keys. I believe, if you get yourself into that position, your elbow will find where it needs to be to deliver the cue straight.
Of course, making these changes is hit and miss (literally) if you are doing it alone. Not that you can't, but it's hard to see yourself. Video would help a lot. But, better still, a qualified teacher would probably be a worthwhile investment.
What's odd, Johnny, is the relationship of body parts to meat and produce.
Pool players and golfers have chicken wings, boxers have cauliflower ears, and my second wife could eat an apple through a picket fence.
I find shit like this fascinating.
And a major sponsor for the latest 10-ball event was Kurzweil Meats, as described here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=232416
Connected?
-Sean
It was too bad that thread turned into a squabble over credentials. It had promise for looking at different alignment issues that befuddle most players.
I'll chicken wing on extreme draw shots and find if I concentrate on tucking my elbow back (inside my shoulder), I stroke straight through the cue ball. My arm normally hangs down in a straight line, but occasionally likes to chicken wing for power.
I've noticed, IMO, most top players' elbow will either be straight or inside of the shoulder. A smaller percentage will have the elbow out or grip hand closer to the body, giving the appearance of a jutting elbow.
Joe Tucker makes some interesting observations about the break stroke in his new dvd, RACKING SECRETS II. He mentions some of the ideas we're speaking of in this thread. Def worth a look.
Best,
Mike
Mike Sigel has nearly perfect plane mechanics. However, when he hits a shot really hard, his elbow ducks very much inside. I used to think that was a flaw, but maybe not ...