Tips & Tricks: Cueball and object ball frozen to same rail

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FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hypothetical situation: Cueball and object ball are separated by 12-18 inches. Both balls are frozen to the same rail.

What's the best way to pocket the object ball (down rail into corner pocket)? I've read about tips/tricks in the past but I can't remember what they were since these shots rarely come up. I know drawing the ball isn't an option because the cueball will deflect upwards, hit the cushion, and bounce away from the rail. Otherwise, I'm not sure. What all works here?
 
FeelDaShot said:
Hypothetical situation: Cueball and object ball are separated by 12-18 inches. Both balls are frozen to the same rail.

What's the best way to pocket the object ball (down rail into corner pocket)? I've read about tips/tricks in the past but I can't remember what they were since these shots rarely come up. I know drawing the ball isn't an option because the cueball will deflect upwards, hit the cushion, and bounce away from the rail. Otherwise, I'm not sure. What all works here?
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One time I practiced that shot for awhile. The shot must have been in one of my pool books. Suppose the balls are on the left rail: I jacked up a little bit, then I aimed slightly away from the cushion with bottom left and soft-medium speed. The cb then swerved back into the rail and hugged the rail. It isn't that hard to make the cb swerve around a side pocket and make the ob.

Dr Dave has a video demonstrating other techniques here:

 
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FeelDaShot said:
Hypothetical situation: Cueball and object ball are separated by 12-18 inches. Both balls are frozen to the same rail.

What's the best way to pocket the object ball (down rail into corner pocket)? I've read about tips/tricks in the past but I can't remember what they were since these shots rarely come up. I know drawing the ball isn't an option because the cueball will deflect upwards, hit the cushion, and bounce away from the rail. Otherwise, I'm not sure. What all works here?
Click to expand...
With small pockets you are in trouble.

I think Mike Massey demonstrates shooting into the cushion a little with rail-side draw. The idea is that the ball will sink into the cushion and emerge just before it gets to the object ball. The side spin will help throw the object ball into the pocket. What causes the ball to bounce up into the rail is stick elevation, so you want the cue as level as possible.

When practicing, start with everything closer and work up to longer shots.
 
Hitting the shot with low inside spin causes the object ball to move out from the rail a bit and as Bob said above with tight pockets it might not go.
Best chance is to hit it at pocket speed.
 
Mike Massey imparts extra terrestrial properties to many shots so GOS there. Main things working against the shot, is frozen balls sit under the cushion nose compounded by there is no way to level a full sized stick on these shots. Some blend of masse and pocket slack is all that works.
 
I've found that high English on the rail side of the cue ball makes the cue ball hug the rail. You have to be careful with the speed because the cue ball will follow, and you will still be stuck to the rail.
 
tomatoshooter said:
I've found that high English on the rail side of the cue ball makes the cue ball hug the rail. You have to be careful with the speed because the cue ball will follow, and you will still be stuck to the rail.
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That's what I was taught with the big ball. With a regular or worn out full size you can sometimes just apply center draw. The theory being the back spin will dig itself against the rail instead of bouncing off the nose. This probably doesn't work across the side pockets; never tried it that way.
 
straightline said:
That's what I was taught with the big ball. With a regular or worn out full size you can sometimes just apply center draw. The theory being the back spin will dig itself against the rail instead of bouncing off the nose. This probably doesn't work across the side pockets; never tried it that way.
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I think I've done it across side pockets, maybe I got lucky and the cue ball very slightly bounced off the rail. The groove in the felt on the bed of the table helps, too.
 
straightline said:
Was this with just draw?
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No, I'm rolling the ball. The slight curve from the spin helps the ball stick to the rail. Less like a swerve shot, where the ball curves when it stops sliding, and more like when a rolling coin tilts and curves to one side. I just tried a few shots, I think I'm getting more help than I thought from the groove.
 
tomatoshooter said:
No, I'm rolling the ball. The slight curve from the spin helps the ball stick to the rail. Less like a swerve shot, where the ball curves when it stops sliding, and more like when a rolling coin tilts and curves to one side. I just tried a few shots, I think I'm getting more help than I thought from the groove.
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OK. Sounded like you could get past the side with the draw shot.
 
fastone371 said:
Which side is inside on a straight in shot?? Cushion side or table side??
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If you understand the issue with the shot, it certainly can't be table side because the cb would deflect off the cue tip into the rail. The goal is to get the cb to roll along the rail--not rebound off the rail.
 
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BC21 said:
I made a neat video a few years back that addresses a similar shot, though closer to the pocket...

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7stud said:
If you understand the issue with the shot, it certainly can't be table side because the cb would deflect off the cue tip into the rail. The goal is to get the cb to roll along the rail--not rebound off the rail.
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The video between my question and your answer says the exact opposite, who is correct then??
 
fastone371 said:
The video between my question and your answer says the exact opposite, who is correct then??
Click to expand...

Depends on how you shoot it. Using "table side" spin with the cue stick parallel to the rail will squirt the cb into the cushion, and the shot won't work. But shooting "table side" spin (left english in the video) with the cue stick angled away from the cushion works just fine.

The shot can also be done using "rail side" spin and a little draw, slightly shooting away from the rail, allowing the cb to massè/swerve back on track to the ob.

All of these types of shots require plenty of practice from different distances in order to get a good idea of how to hit and aim the cb.
 
7stud said:
One time I practiced that shot for awhile. The shot must have been in one of my pool books. Suppose the balls are on the left rail: I jacked up a little bit, then I aimed slightly away from the cushion with bottom left and soft-medium speed. The cb then swerved back into the rail and hugged the rail. It isn't that hard to make the cb swerve around a side pocket and make the ob.

Dr Dave has a video demonstrating other techniques here:

Click to expand...
FYI, the follow-up video has useful info also:

And more related videos and info can be found here:

Enjoy!
 
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