Tired of hearing about lessons...

[DrCue'sProtege]

There are those who have taken lessons, including some in this thread, that will never get anywhere because they refuse to follow directions, for no particular reason other than they think they know better.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Well, I hope that doesn't include me. The reason I say that is because I still practice on stuff I have learned from each and every instructor I have ever taken lessons from. From Tom Rossman to Diana Minor to Mark Wilson to Scott Lee.

I even practice stuff that I don't really think will do me any good. But I still do it. I retire on March 31st and plan on putting several hours a day in at the table.

r/Mike

 

[deanoc]

I never had lessons
I thought they were a lot like seeing a psychologist or marriage counselor

I viewed it as a desperate action that usually preceded quitting

There again,my pool never got much better

 

[Neil]

I never had lessons
I thought they were a lot like seeing a psychologist or marriage counselor

I viewed it as a desperate action that usually preceded quitting

There again,my pool never got much better

Question for you- Do you have any idea why you thought that way? I suspect that most look at pool as just a game, and who gets lessons for a game? I think that if more looked at it as a sport, they would be more inclined to get lessons. I can't think of any sports off the top of my head that don't have instructors.

 

[onepocketron]

I see a lot of pool players that could benefit in a huge way by just a small amount of coaching/lessons. I do agree that the way to get better is by hitting hundreds, if not thousands of balls(table time). Most pool players egos would never allow them to admit they did not know it all, or that they needed help.

 

[justadub]

I am so damn tired of reading posts telling people to go take lessons. I think everyone already knows that if you want to pay for lessons it will be worth your money but that's not the point of this forum, so stop with the comments about getting lessons. If someone asks an honest questions about their game and how to improve you should only respond with good advice, not recommending lessons for the 1,000,000th time...

I think that the argument has become skewed at this point.

What I'm taking from the original post in the thread (and perhaps I'm wrong here) is that it can become frustrating to ask a question here on the forums, and the response or reply is "you need to take lessons."

I don't think that the OP was bashing instructors or the value of lessons, just the tendency of that reply when someone comes here, asking a question of a forum full of pool players with varying but great levels of experience. Isn't that what a forum should be for, to be able to share experiences and opinions? I didn't get the sense that the OP was trying to slam instructors or lessons, just that he was tired of getting that reply when asking a question here.

It's gotten to the point for me that whenever I go into the Ask The Instructors forum and ask a question, I make it a point to add a disclaimer, every time, stating that I know real, in-person instruction is the best, but I'm doing what I can here in the meantime. Just to try and ward off the standard, "go get a lesson" reply, which isn't helpful at all.

For the record, virtually all of the times that I have asked questions in that sub forum, I have received great responses. And I am thankful for that, and all the helpful advice I get from so many here. It just seems to me that the OP was stating something that has exasperated me before about replies here on AZB.

Given how so many threads go here these days, and the terrible forum etiquette that too many exhibit, I suppose the "get a lesson" is small potatoes in the bigger scheme of problems here on AZB.

Signed, someone who hopes to get the opportunity for some real serious instruction at some point, but will continue muddling along in the meantime, with the help of many here on AZB.

 

[KRJ]

I see a lot of pool players that could benefit in a huge way by just a small amount of coaching/lessons. I do agree that the way to get better is by hitting hundreds, if not thousands of balls(table time). Most pool players egos would never allow them to admit they did not know it all, or that they needed help.

well, that is the same with every sport. Folks think the "hit a million balls" is some great mystery advice that no other sport thought of and only relates to pool.

You need to hit thousands of baseballs, throw thousands of passes, shoot thousands of baskets, hit thousands of serves, etc. etc.

It relates to every other sport on the planet... but as you mentioned, is only one aspect of it. I mean, teaching a HS kid a great baseball swing, but not going in the cages to get repetitions won't help him much.

 

[ktrepal85]

I think that the argument has become skewed at this point.

What I'm taking from the original post in the thread (and perhaps I'm wrong here) is that it can become frustrating to ask a question here on the forums, and the response or reply is "you need to take lessons."

I don't think that the OP was bashing instructors or the value of lessons, just the tendency of that reply when someone comes here, asking a question of a forum full of pool players with varying but great levels of experience. Isn't that what a forum should be for, to be able to share experiences and opinions? I didn't get the sense that the OP was trying to slam instructors or lessons, just that he was tired of getting that reply when asking a question here.

It's gotten to the point for me that whenever I go into the Ask The Instructors forum and ask a question, I make it a point to add a disclaimer, every time, stating that I know real, in-person instruction is the best, but I'm doing what I can here in the meantime. Just to try and ward off the standard, "go get a lesson" reply, which isn't helpful at all.

For the record, virtually all of the times that I have asked questions in that sub forum, I have received great responses. And I am thankful for that, and all the helpful advice I get from so many here. It just seems to me that the OP was stating something that has exasperated me before about replies here on AZB.

Given how so many threads go here these days, and the terrible forum etiquette that too many exhibit, I suppose the "get a lesson" is small potatoes in the bigger scheme of problems here on AZB.

Signed, someone who hopes to get the opportunity for some real serious instruction at some point, but will continue muddling along in the meantime, with the help of many here on AZB.

Exactly!! Thanks for explaining my point!

 

[FranCrimi]

I think that the argument has become skewed at this point.

What I'm taking from the original post in the thread (and perhaps I'm wrong here) is that it can become frustrating to ask a question here on the forums, and the response or reply is "you need to take lessons."

I don't think that the OP was bashing instructors or the value of lessons, just the tendency of that reply when someone comes here, asking a question of a forum full of pool players with varying but great levels of experience. Isn't that what a forum should be for, to be able to share experiences and opinions? I didn't get the sense that the OP was trying to slam instructors or lessons, just that he was tired of getting that reply when asking a question here.

It's gotten to the point for me that whenever I go into the Ask The Instructors forum and ask a question, I make it a point to add a disclaimer, every time, stating that I know real, in-person instruction is the best, but I'm doing what I can here in the meantime. Just to try and ward off the standard, "go get a lesson" reply, which isn't helpful at all.

For the record, virtually all of the times that I have asked questions in that sub forum, I have received great responses. And I am thankful for that, and all the helpful advice I get from so many here. It just seems to me that the OP was stating something that has exasperated me before about replies here on AZB.

Given how so many threads go here these days, and the terrible forum etiquette that too many exhibit, I suppose the "get a lesson" is small potatoes in the bigger scheme of problems here on AZB.

Signed, someone who hopes to get the opportunity for some real serious instruction at some point, but will continue muddling along in the meantime, with the help of many here on AZB.

I can only speak for myself, but I think I was right on point. My point? Quit asking the first thing that pops into your head and start practicing. Then you won't have to worry so much about getting an answer that annoys you.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

Three little letters: e g o

I agree with you. There is something about pool that makes a lot of people who play it want to proclaim themselves awesome. How many times have we all heard someone we know doesn't play make the absurd claim that "they put themselves through school" by playing pool? For me it's a lot. I don't see this in other individual sports I have played.

If you truly want to improve you have to be honest about your game and what you need to do to take it up a level. Most people have no interest in doing either.

The other thing I don't understand is the obsession of pool players with "payouts". But that's a topic for another thread.

 

[deanoc]

other sports

we all see how much lessons are helping Tiger Woods

most everything we read by fellow pros is that he needs to
quit listening

 

[Dr_CollieCue]

It seems that the request to provide advice rather than referrals has morphed into a discussion of the value of instruction despite the OP's statement that he doesn't question the value of instruction. The somewhat inflammatory title must have caused the diversion and a better title might have been "Give Me Advice, Not Referrals." After all, one of the major benefits of the internet is the ability to share information with people you otherwise would not be able to communicate with.

 

[KRJ]

other sports

we all see how much lessons are helping Tiger Woods

most everything we read by fellow pros is that he needs to
quit listening

C'mon, you're out of your mind now. Tiger Woods has been taking lessons since the age of 3, and has not stopped. He's got the best swing coaches money can buy. He's had nothing but the best for decades. You want to guess how much money he invested in lessons/coaching since the age of 3 ??

Quit listening to whom, the folks that got him to where he is today. Of course, losing his wife, kids and reputation, and then add numerous injuries, and yeah, he's not gonna play so well. But, now it's the "coaches" fault he can't hit the broad side of a barn ??

 

[one stroke]

Stu...Again, the best instructors will always include psychology and strategy as part of their instruction. I often counsel students to watch videos of pro players, or watch in person to see if they would make the same choices, for the same reasons. As was stated by others, often the "find an instructor" comments are geared towards those that have become frustrated from "trying to figure it out on their own"...so it's not so much the "blanket approach".

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott love you man and you give a great lesson , however psychology is best left to psychologists AKA sports psychologists and no the Monk is not one
Instructors do not fit the the bill ,, and they should stay inside thier box
Why do I know this ,,, because I've seen a sports shrink in fact Ronnie O after winning another world title thanked hid sports shrink something I beieve is under utilized in pool
There is several Pro's I could I could name not hard to figure out some who would benefit tremendously with thier help

I in the same breath will say even at the upper pro pool level thiers many that would benefit from the use of a coach ,, similar to golf ,one that knows your game and can spot when flaws have creeped into your game , this could amount to higher finishes

1

 

[CJ Wiley]

We know you've been "on the stall" for all these years, Dean

I never had lessons
I thought they were a lot like seeing a psychologist or marriage counselor

I viewed it as a desperate action that usually preceded quitting

There again,my pool never got much better

Didn't I force you to take a free lesson one day at CK's. :wink:

They said your game went up a couple of balls....or did you just "get the nutz"? :groucho:

We know you've been "on the stall" for all these years, Dean, you move like a ghost.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

C'mon, you're out of your mind now. Tiger Woods has been taking lessons since the age of 3, and has not stopped. He's got the best swing coaches money can buy. He's had nothing but the best for decades. You want to guess how much money he invested in lessons/coaching since the age of 3 ??

Quit listening to whom, the folks that got him to where he is today. Of course, losing his wife, kids and reputation, and then add numerous injuries, and yeah, he's not gonna play so well. But, now it's the "coaches" fault he can't hit the broad side of a barn ??

You haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about. Tiger Woods, or any other pro golfer you might think of, stopped taking lessons a long, long, time ago. Their coaches, not instructors, are there to watch for swing faults, or any other swing problems that may materialize during a golfers course of practice and play.
When Payne Stewart matriculated to high school, his father Bill Stewart, himself a Missouri state amateur champion, said to Coach Mullens, at Greenwood High School. "What ever you do, don't change Payne's swing." He didn't, and the rest is history.

 

[justadub]

Exactly!! Thanks for explaining my point!

It's a shame, but AZB has gradually become a less welcoming place, certainly compared to when I first started reading here.

That's not to say there aren't friendly, helpful, non-judgmental people still here. It's just that the overall tenor of the forum has changed. Likely a reflection of society in general, I suppose...

There is still help to be found here, plenty of great material and many who will try and help you. You just have to have a tougher skin, and learn to ignore some stuff. (Point made to the guy I see in the mirror, as well.)

 

[KRJ]

You haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about. Tiger Woods, or any other pro golfer you might think of, stopped taking lessons a long, long, time ago. Their coaches, not instructors, are there to watch for swing faults, or any other swing problems that may materialize during a golfers course of practice and play.
When Payne Stewart matriculated to high school, his father Bill Stewart, himself a Missouri state amateur champion, said to Coach Mullens, at Greenwood High School. "What ever you do, don't change Payne's swing." He didn't, and the rest is history.

Actually I do, you don't. Do you coach multiple sports? I didn't think so. Giving someone feedback on their swing in golf is instructing. I give feedback on folks baseball swings, that's instructing. You are so confused on the terms you have lost perspective just to win your argument that "lessons" are not needed.

So, if someone needs "coaching" from Scott Lee on their mechanics, that's coaching, not instructing, so therefore, the person needed no lessons, right ?

Yes, Payne had a great swing..... wait for it.... taught to him by his father who instructed him. The difference is most POOL players on the planet did not start playing pool before High School, so their lessons come later in life. See the difference ? In some of the elite sports, if you don't start young enough you have no chance to even play HS ball, let alone college.

 

[philly]

Lessons aren't for everybody. Not every instructor is good for every student. I know when I was in collage if I felt I was not going to find common ground with a particular professor I would drop the class and pick a different one up. Everyone is different and so are instructors. I have a hard head and learn more by ding, playing better players (some of them instructors). Sometimes it costs me a wager. Just like paying for a lesson. No? My son however has been taking lessons and it has improved his play significantly.

 

[Rjmoncrief]

I don't mind reading the post where everybody preach's....get a lesson. My only problem with it is that the majority of all they discuss is "your stroke". I may have missed one, but I haven't read a post or discussion from ANY instructor or teacher that didn't over emphasize the "GOT TO HAVE A CERTAIN STROKE". Basically saying you can't improve or be a great player without that perfect stroke. That's simply not true. Every great player out there has somewhat of a different stroke. Some long, some short, some fast, some slow. As long as your stroke is repeatable and your hitting the right angle, I don't care what it looks like, it will work. I do think everybody could benefit from a lesson or lessons, but not simply on their stroke. I know there are lower level players, beginners, etc. that really need help with their stroke. But not everybody.
Just my humble 2cents.......:wink:

 

[Buzzard II]

I taught firearms at the police academy level for sixteen years. I believe that males are born with gene that makes them think they know how to shoot and handle weapons. They don't. Could there be a relationship with shooting pool too?