to all you apa bashers...and all league haters also
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
There are several leagues which each offer something that may appeal to some and not to others. I currently play in a league that when the session is over it over. No advancing like the APA offers. No winning a trip to vegas. More money comes back to the players and at least in our league I feel there is less sandbagging. 8 ball format is different. Competition is good as it allows you to choose based on your likes and dislikes. Impossible to create the perfect league that will satisfy everyone. As everyone knows. Some people just like complaining and could never be satisfied. I am not playing league to get rich. Even winning in vegas is not hitting the jackpot. Some people will sandbag an entire session and for what. That I will never understand.
Very well said.
In America, pool is a sport in which the amateurs have little knowledge of the pros, so the leagues are our sport's salvation and its core. American pros will never be at the helm of American pool.
In fact, American pros go to great lengths to ensure that the games they play are unrecognizable to the amateurs, and I don't just mean Bonus Ball. They play ten ball instead of the far better known games of eight ball and nine ball, sometimes even using call shot and call safe rules to completely mystify onlooking amateurs. I'll never forget sitting next to an amateur at Super Billiards Expo when a player shot the ten ball four times in a row, each time leaving it tough and opponent giving it back. The amateur sitting next to me asked me what on earth was going on. I tried to explain it but, not surprisingly, they got up shortly thereafter.
In America, the amateurs are our sport's best hope, and the pros are more committed than ever to being irrelevant to the sport's growth. Sad, but true.
Ive been to alot of large pool events and the national level APA events are about as well run as any tournament ive ever been to. This years mini mania room went 20 hrs a day for 10 or 11 days in a row and the same room accommodated masters, the jack and jill and a few other events. I'm not ashamed at all to admit that I really like the APA and all that they offer to amateur pool. Are the people who own APA getting paid and sometimes well paid to do this? Yes and you know what? They deserve it.
Banks
Banned
I was blown away that there was nearly always a line to sign up for the minis(anywhere from a few people to a dozen or more). To top that off, as soon as somebody decided to give up their spot in a mini, I'm not sure if any open spot lasted more than a minute before being snatched right up. I was also impressed that, despite a few table problems, our few matches in the tournament ran about as on time as any other tournament I've played in. I spent a good amount of my time at the tables by the pool.
takeitdown
Banned
This is the truth...... I would rather drive 45mins each way, to play in something other than APA......too many money grubbing league operators, who have no desire to learn the rules.
It's just like Mr Perot once said: "What we have here is a giant sucking machine"
P.S. .... Bang-On brother. Just remember, there's more to this game than any sandbagger could ever teach you.
The guy who runs APA here couldn't beat me with the 5 and out. I'd like to win some of that APA money he has. Sadly he and his boyfriend are too scared to get off the porch and play. Biggest ass clowns I ever met.
Banks
Banned
I hear SVB bets it up. You should get off the porch and play him some.
Being a good pool player is not a prerequisite for being a league operator (although many of them are high level players who could bust you in a NY minute). Being good with people is...something you obviously know nothing about. If you're really looking for an "ass clown", just look in the mirror! 
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Our LO does a solid job policing play and promoting sportsmanship. We also have a board of governors who are reps for each night and act as an extension of the LO where possible. It works well, and if APA wasn't around I would not be playing pool.
Just fyi, I play 8-ball once a week as a 7. I have been playing APA since 1998 and have also played BCA which sucked.
-Dave
Just fyi, I play 8-ball once a week as a 7. I have been playing APA since 1998 and have also played BCA which sucked.
-Dave
takeitdown
Banned
7 out and the breaks...sure would try it.
takeitdown
Banned
Not a fan of yours either. Not even a little. Go take your pom poms and go cheerlead somewhere else.Being a good pool player is not a prerequisite for being a league operator (although many of them are high level players who could bust you in a NY minute). Being good with people is...something you obviously know nothing about. If you're really looking for an "ass clown", just look in the mirror!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
[QUOTE=hang-the-9;4878427]Actually just about any league is in the same boat as the APA. The APA is a tad worse as they have more league only rules that differ from the standardized rules than other leagues. The USAPL league I played in used standard world rules.
I just don't think leagues bring anything towards growing pool, which should be "growing pro pool" since that is where the port is lacking in. People have been and will continue to buy 8' home tables and covering them with black cloth while trying to sell their rare 40 yr old bamboo cues for 2,000 on ebay, that is not helping anyone aside from those that sell those things.
Now if the APA and others sponsored a pro tour where 100 players could make a living playing pool, that would be great for the game.
Maybe we need to define exactly what "growing the sport" is. To me, it's not what I see the leagues bring to the table.
I've argued against this before. What would growing pro pool do for ME? What has any pro sport ever done to make your life better or worse? (unless of course, you're a pro)
I love Chelsea FC, one of a few of the most wealthy clubs on the planet..great. When they sell great players do I get a cut of the transfer fee? Nope. Do I get to keep loving the sport and the team, that's free, sure! When they're on TV every week do I benefit? When they lose does my life get worse, no. If they totally vanished from soccer would my life suffer? NO. Do they care, no. My point is what do I get out of SVB and the lot for doing better on income and TV time and being in the media? Nothing tangible that I can think of. Leagues do benefit pool and businesses more so than the small percentage of you elite guys and all of your jargon and sharking and gambling and romantic notions of what the "REAL GAME" is all about. So you're better than most, congrats!! We all still go on and enjoy the game on the level we can and understand. That will never be good enough for the snobs and elitist among us. This division is what hurts pool more than any league could ever do in my opinion.
I just don't think leagues bring anything towards growing pool, which should be "growing pro pool" since that is where the port is lacking in. People have been and will continue to buy 8' home tables and covering them with black cloth while trying to sell their rare 40 yr old bamboo cues for 2,000 on ebay, that is not helping anyone aside from those that sell those things.
Now if the APA and others sponsored a pro tour where 100 players could make a living playing pool, that would be great for the game.
Maybe we need to define exactly what "growing the sport" is. To me, it's not what I see the leagues bring to the table.
I've argued against this before. What would growing pro pool do for ME? What has any pro sport ever done to make your life better or worse? (unless of course, you're a pro)
I love Chelsea FC, one of a few of the most wealthy clubs on the planet..great. When they sell great players do I get a cut of the transfer fee? Nope. Do I get to keep loving the sport and the team, that's free, sure! When they're on TV every week do I benefit? When they lose does my life get worse, no. If they totally vanished from soccer would my life suffer? NO. Do they care, no. My point is what do I get out of SVB and the lot for doing better on income and TV time and being in the media? Nothing tangible that I can think of. Leagues do benefit pool and businesses more so than the small percentage of you elite guys and all of your jargon and sharking and gambling and romantic notions of what the "REAL GAME" is all about. So you're better than most, congrats!! We all still go on and enjoy the game on the level we can and understand. That will never be good enough for the snobs and elitist among us. This division is what hurts pool more than any league could ever do in my opinion.
takeitdown
Banned
Thing is Stuart under the old structure of pool room hierarchy, by taking lumps to learn and not monster handicaps, you would improve. It's the league mentality itself that retards growth.
Banks
Banned
So then just about every player from old pool rooms should be pro speed by now.
That's one of the biggest fallacies around, both that you have to play better players to improve and that handicaps stunt a player's growth.
---------> agree
So gamblers never ask for a spot (handicap)? They always play even?
Cool. I see now....
Banks
Banned
Also, everybody started out not knowing which end of the cue to use and even the best players in the room had to travel to get any better because it's impossible to improve on your own. That's why Efren was only a sliver of a fraction better than anybody else.
Not all pool leagues use handicaps. And what about the high skilled player? How do they improve when they're just dishing out lumps? Answer: Handicaps. This old structure you speak of, it never taught anyone anything. Maybe a select few and you learned only enough not to be a threat to whomever you were being taught by. "I taught you everything you know, but I didn't teach you everything I know." The old structure is absolutely what killed this game and it's the ones that are clinging to the past that are dying off. There's nothing to debate here. Period. I've seen it with my own eyes. Nothing but takers...teaching others how to get over on someone else so eventually they can have their turn, but never once giving anything to anyone else. You must "pay" for it. And now we wonder why nothing's left anymore.
The growth pool needs are in the areas exposure and accessibility to not only the game itself, but education in its fundamentals, rules, etiquette, history, etc., which can then lead to growth in popularity. Popularity brings with it by-products of increased money and what do ya know...skill levels!
It's not that American pro players are so much weaker than pros of the past, it's the fact that international competition has increased. Because the US is no longer the only country with disposable income and time on their hands. These countries have not progressed because they've been living in a pool hall. They've progressed because pool has just been brought closer to them.
How's that for a "league mentality"?
I am still trying to figure out how the diminishing pro tours have killed pool for everyone else? I mean, didn't most of the old school players stay away from tournaments anyway? I thought they were all too busy busting some poor unsuspecting sucker?
And how is helping a handful of pros make a living going to do more for the game as a whole than organizations that permit anyone of any skill level to play, garners new interest and promotes having a good time? How does feeding a select few benefit the masses? How does going and paying for your lumps entice new players? The answers are simple: they don't. The US could blow away Europe in the Mosconi Cup and it wouldn't impact pool in this country one iota. But bring more organized play to the general public...different story.
And how is helping a handful of pros make a living going to do more for the game as a whole than organizations that permit anyone of any skill level to play, garners new interest and promotes having a good time? How does feeding a select few benefit the masses? How does going and paying for your lumps entice new players? The answers are simple: they don't. The US could blow away Europe in the Mosconi Cup and it wouldn't impact pool in this country one iota. But bring more organized play to the general public...different story.
Excellent points here. I look at it like baseball. If kids are only taught enough to not quite beat their teachers, the game will degrade. We have a huge wealth if ball players because proper instructions start at 4 years old in t-ball and continue on from there. Pretending that the only way to get better is to continually get your ass handed to you by better players is crazy.